Have any other women had trouble in an SL gay bar?

There's racism/sexism/homophobia/whatever in all groups, no matter how much that group has been victimized. Nevertheless, there are still legitimate times and places for people to segregate themselves. Some religious groups have places limited to their members, gyms still have separate locker rooms, support groups are often limited, and so on.

The gender separation in the gay community goes way back. It's been years since I've gone bar hopping, but certainly when I came out (longer ago than I care to admit), lesbian bars would typically exclude men, and a certain class of gay bar, typically those with back rooms, would exclude women. There would still be plenty of other bars that happily had gay men, lesbians, and straight men and women (though in those days, very, very few straight men would want to spend more than give seconds in a gay bar).

I don't know which bar the original poster is referring to, but there are a number of gay clubs in SL that are strictly sex, and others that combine a bar/dance area and a sex area. In those cases, and particularly in or near the sex areas, it is unusual, and for many men, disconcerting to have female avatars. Those are the sorts of places that exclude women, justifiably so. If you think about it, it's really no different than XCite having separate changing rooms for men and women in their store, for people to try on their newly purchased genitalia. It's even similar to a number of RP sims where you have to dress apropriately.

SL is big enough that there really is room for everyone, including clubs that are exclusive one way or another. This isn't about wanting to keep others in their place, nor is it about exploiting an implicit advantage (at it would be, for example, at an all-male country club routinely used for business activities).

There is in SL a Boy's Town and other gay places that are very beautiful and intersting but truthfully they are just boring ghost towns to me.
Wonder if OP is from Chicago?
My boyfriend grew up in Chicago has mentioned a Boy's Town when he use to hang out there.

I thought every city had a "Boys Town?" Kinda like we all have a Main Street. Except Chicago. I don't think we have one of those.

Women, at least in the states, are frequently welcome at gay bars so long as they don't make passes at the men. It's nothing new, a great many women (including myself) feel safer there than at your normal str8 bar.

While I can understand the desire for an exclusively-male space, it's not surprising that a woman who hangs out in RL gay bars would be stunned by that sort of rule.

Oh, and women get referred to as "girls" all the time; I daresay we can't assume any malice or patronization of men on the OP's part, despite your best efforts to the contrary.

I've known one of the operators of the particular club in the OP for a number of years now, and I can pretty safely say this isn't the case. It simply isn't obligatory of any "club" to be all-inclusive. This club simply chooses to cater to a specific group of people, with specific things in common, such as gender, sexual orientation, and species. There are plenty of places without these restrictions, some great ones already mentioned in this thread. I don't see what the big deal is.

In RL, we are stuck with the body God (or the FSM ) gave us. If you're black, white, tall, short, etc - you are what you are, and being discriminated based upon things you cannot change is immoral to many folks.

In Second Life, however - changing from black to white, male to female, or tall to short, is as simple as moving a slider or two. Instead of being stuck with the body we were born with, we can be anyone at any time, if we choose. Changing gender, race, or body style is simpler than changing from jeans into dockers in RL.

Considering its that effortless - is this really true discrimination? Or is it something more along the order of enforcing a 'dress' code?

Its a very interesting philosophical question: If we all had the ability to shapeshift in RL like we can in SL - would discrimination based upon race or gender still carry the same meaning?

I agree Zaphod.

If it were the only club for say GBLTs in Second Life - then it would be a concern. But thats Far from the case.

If people want to have an exclusive club, let them.

Its not like belonging to this club influences your ability to earn money, or ascend to local political office.

You say "what the big deal is" clearly. There's a difference between "catering to" and restricting/keeping out.

A bar can choose to cater to shirtless and heavily tattooed gay-male-human-AVs who all dance in lockstep and are silent except for the occasionally shouted "WOOOO!"

The big deal is in creating a ban list at the door and then acting like turds about it.

/me stops beating the dead horse.

And please, I invite all males, gay or straight, to spend one hour in SL as a woman. Your eyes will be opened forever.

Isabelle, I'm curious as to how your last sentence is designed to lend weight to your argument?

Travis makes it clear above that in SL we are by the nature of our adaptability, essentially, Role players.

So, a club stipulates that entry is restricted to avatars of a particular form (since Conan points out gender isn't strictly accurate). It's the club owners prerogative to make what rules they desire, for whatever reason, they are not obliged to explain to all and sundry.

That the doorman was an uncouth, unreasoning brute is up to their own personal 'roleplaying'. If they'd been abusive or violent is a case for possible Abuse Reports but like so many others have said, why bother? Is it merely the principle?

My female alt visits a ladies only club. It's clearly labelled as such and yet, they still get male shaped avatars arriving seemingly ignorant of all the clear labels. They get asked politely to leave. If ignored they get asked again. Ultimately they get ejected. They just aren't allowed to stay. The club isn't lesbians only ... it's ladies only but interlopers are still ejected as a last resort.

Someone else has said it, look and you'll find somewhere that does cater for your preferred clientele.

Sorry. I veered. It was a slightly off-topic "and furthermore!" I was suggesting men wear a woman's shoes in SL to experience first-hand how women AVs often get treated. Experiencing it has much more impact than listening to someone's (my) rant.

And (furthermore!) if I see one more freebie-penis-wearing newb walk up to a woman AV and push her, I'm gonna toss my cookies.

Hmm Isabelle -Im not trying to be critical. Just a couple stray thoughts

Your idea was to hang out at a Gay bar to avoid the crude hit on attempts by clumsy charm free guys (and possibly men in general)

And then the Gay Man in the Gay bar was also nasty to you instead of just politely telling you couldnt stay?

You definitely have a right to feel outraged you were rudely treated. Not that anything should be done to the club over it, but if someone is nasty that is not right.

That doesnt mean they shoudlnt be able to bar women - but a little respect is defenitly deserved.

Id think the Bouncer would have been able to direct you to a more inclusive gay bar, would have been easier then being mean.

Still manners are a problem throughout Second Life , it a fairly big problem in many areas - unfortunately

AND yes - the Lindens need to have a Sign encouraging noobies not to rut in public like they do.


Edit - "SOME" do, lol of course its just some noobies are like that.

According to popular belief, a lot of males are females in SL.....

What's funny is that I have some black skins that I use for modelling my clothes in the shop... I find that when I wear the black skins around in public, I have far fewer people approach me to start up friendly conversations. My black male skin, especially... it's like I don't exist... it's either that or "Hey there's a Zulu over there"...ugh

Iz, maybe they're not really gay, they're just pretending to be in SL.

When I get guys doing this to me,I either whip out my hugely oversized strapon and chase them around the the room, or I draw a sword and threaten to cut it off, they quickly get the idea and it provides some amusement for my friends.

Yes I know the sword will in reality doing nothing clubs, but often the mental image is enough to make them put it back in their pants.

Oops I am confused. Asked my boyfriend and he said Boy's Town was in Indiana, not Chicago.
Not every town has one.
For example in Seattle there are clubs and bars that restrict by gender. Before I moved there it was common practice a friend told me if women showed up in Gay night club to ask for 3 to 4 forms of identification.

You should see what it's like being a Darlek or Lego man

Hmm yes it's a worry, I tend to talk to a lot of multicolored people, blue, green, orange etc, but am I ignoring black avatars without realising it? I hope not......

One of the most strikingly ironic things I saw in SL was the profile of a guy at my store.

His first pick was for a monument to GLBT people who had died as a result of intolerance, or throughout the struggle for rights, recognition and acceptance. His second pick was a (I'm guessing the same as this topic's) gay club- NO women NO drag NO furries.

I leave them to it. Everyone wants a shelter from their storms, it just tickled my metal detector to see the two picks together.

To the OP, there are clubs out there that aren't full of people coming onto you and being creepy about it. The Velvet has always had a nice crowd, for example. Or failing that, maybe just accept that there are a couple of overly familiar guys around, ignore them, and have a good time with everyone else, whatever shape they're in.

1) I've lived RL in Chicago all my life. I've lived RL in Boystown for nearly a decade now and hung out there for many years before that. RL Boystown is in RL Chicago. End of argument.

2) The "certain club" whose name is not being mentioned here has a "backroom," which is probably the reason why they don't want women wandering around. If you don't know what a backroom is -- it's a dark place where people (specifically men, in this case) have sex. Not many gay clubs have them in either SL or RL.

Basically, some gay men have an issue with women watching them while they have sex with other men. Or virtual sex, in this case. It probably reminds them of what it would feel like if their mothers walked in on them during sex. Or their wives/girlfriends. Crazy, ain't it?

(If you're a female AV and this is an issue for you, go to another club. They don't talk much at this place anyway and I doubt you'd be invited to play in the backroom.)

3) Any club I go where people don't want to chat on the dance floor (or give you crap because you do) -- I leave the club. What's the point of a dance floor in SL? To watch your avatar bounce around to pre-recorded dance remakes of old 70s tracks for hours while saying nothing to the others in the room? Yawn. I'd rather watch paint dry.

Some of us are geeky instead of witty.

You've made the same mistake that almost every gay man just starting to go to bars makes (in RL), namely assuming that it's the other person's responsibility to start the conversation with you.

The reality is that most of them are probably just as shy, just as inhibited against making the first move, as you were. We didn't get a much practice as the straight guys did in high school.

My guess is that most of them were in IM, chatting with each other or with friends who weren't there. I've seen conversations ebb and flow. You can have ten people all talking at once, and a few minutes later, nothing but the music. It's the luck of the draw, and the only real answer is to try another time, try another place, and keep trying until you've broken the ice.

Also, just as in real life, looks matter. Ini this particular situation, people are less likely to start a conversation with someone who looks like a newbie, mostly because they don't want to spend more time answering the same questions, advising which genitals to get, etc. Not very welcoming, but that's life. Others will judge based on looks, perhaps because they're turned on by a particular type, perhaps they just figure that someone who has made an effort to look attractive is available. Conversely, someone who is consciously unattractive is less likely to have people starting conversations with him, not out of any intent to hurt, but because most people haven't the foggiest idea of what to say in such cases (a chicken and egg problem). And yes, there's still racism.

More experienced folks will also check profiles; a tidbit in a profile can be a good ice breaker.

As many people have suggested here, I'd deep-six this spot and look for somewhere else - and it needn't be a gay bar. There are friendly places to hang out that aren't based on sex/gender, like The Shelter or The Blarney Stone.

as a gay male resident of the rl "boys town" in chicago, i can assure you that it is NOT a "put down". the term is used all the time. and never taken in offense.