So, I have a question: landbots running around on the grid, taking up resources, and ripping people off is perfectly fine, but more landbots running around on the grid, taking up resources, but not ripping people off would be a "grid attack" or "virtual terrorism"?
I'm not sure I understand. Does that mean it's only okay to run a landbot if you're doing it in order to rip people off? That the one criterion in determining whether a landbot is acceptable or not is whether you're actively using it to snatch land away from unsuspecting, inexperienced sellers, and shame on you if you're not doing that?
So then ... would the so-called "virtual terrorism" arrangement of lots of bots running at once be alright if the bots were all set to properly rip off landowners just like landbots normally do?
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FBI called over land bot FRAUD |
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Alex Fitzsimmons
Resu Deretsiger
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,605
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07-01-2007 19:59
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"Whatever the astronomers finally decide, I think Xena should be considered the enemy planet." - io Kukalcan
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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07-01-2007 20:22
The bot runner knows exactly what he is doing when he sets the bots to buy only the super cheap land. I'd only buy cheap land too, if I were in the land sales business. That's the whole point: buy cheap, sell expensive. I guess those bots somehow calculate the L$ / sqm price and buy everything below a certain limit. I don't think there's a bot with a "seek and destroy newbies" program. |
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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07-01-2007 20:27
I'd only buy cheap land too, if I were in the land sales business. That's the whole point: buy cheap, sell expensive. I guess those bots somehow calculate the L$ / sqm price and buy everything below a certain limit. I don't think there's a bot with a "seek and destroy newbies" program. Kudos to L--dbaron M--lin for finding a place where it was perfectly acceptable for him to create a program that could run rampant and he could rake in thousands of US dollars. I'm also impressed with how he rationalizes taking something that was not intended for him so that he can sleep well at night. _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
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07-01-2007 20:31
There is cheap and then there's "super cheap, I only set it to L$1 because I'm transferring it". Those are the sales he is targetting. I'm getting tired of this circular argument though. Before I even press Submit Reply, I know the next post is going to be someone saying "well if they set it to anyone, they get what they deserve". I just think we all deserve a little better then what we have gotten as far as a response from LL on this issue. Kudos to L--dbaron M--lin for finding a place where it was perfectly acceptable for him to create a program that could run rampant and he could rake in thousands of US dollars. I'm also impressed with how he rationalizes taking something that was not intended for him so that he can sleep well at night. Sleeping on piles of money probably isn't as comfortable as it sounds o.O _____________________
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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07-01-2007 20:38
I'll take Sarah Nerd over an unethical landbot or a snide response any day. That wasn't a snide response, that was just a friendly hint pointing out that it could look odd if someone bashes the competition on that basis. I even gave advice how one might attack landbot owners based on other, less unsustainable reasons. |
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Gina Jacks
Registered User
Join date: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 181
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07-01-2007 20:45
Ah, yes... I believe that person called the FBI's special "Will You Come to My House and Manipulate My Mouse for Me" branch. There was no fraud. The seller of the parcel made a simple-to-avoid mistake (failed to read the warning dialogues) while pricing his land and another resident (or bot) purchased the land. In the future, if the resident in question trips over a stone while not paying attention will he need to get the US Geological Survey involved? Ok Joe, thanks for supporting the scum bags. You are, on my ignore list. Next one. _____________________
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
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07-01-2007 20:47
Kudos to L--dbaron M--lin for finding a place where it was perfectly acceptable for him to create a program that could run rampant and he could rake in thousands of US dollars. I'm also impressed with how he rationalizes taking something that was not intended for him so that he can sleep well at night. Putting that under a quote of one of my posts is really low. I'm just trying to apply a tiny bit of common sense here. But I'm used to that. I defended ageplay and rape play based on common sense, now I'm a pedophile and rapist for some people. And of course, if I write something against the nonsensical accusation "landbots are stealing", I must be Merlin. |
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Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
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07-01-2007 20:50
Ok Joe, thanks for supporting the scum bags. You are, on my ignore list. Next one. Can I be on that list (if I am not already) too? I like it when people who feel ripped off waste government officials time dealing with personal disputes. I like Aleister's suggestion of working to find another way to get landbots removed, but this whole "They are stealing from us" arguement isn't working. Though it does bring an interesting thought. In the Bragg case, if Linden Labs continues to fight for the ruling that Bragg did indeed steal from them, would there be a waterfall effect of them having to take a harder look at Landbots using their workarounds to supposedly "steal" from other residents? While I agree that neither was stealing, could it be a possibility that if the ruling goes in favor of Linden Labs, that landbots themselves might be in jeapordy as well? _____________________
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Gina Jacks
Registered User
Join date: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 181
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07-01-2007 20:53
Well I don't need a TOS in order to understand right and wrong. Knowingly taking advantage or errors and profiting off of errors is not right. When someone tells you, It got really laggy and I missed a number and you refuse to give back something not intended for you at that price, you know what you are doing is wrong without looking at the TOS. Hiding under the TOS and using it to legally steal is cowardly and wrong. When someone tells you that was an error and you know they did not want to sell at that price, YOU KNOW your stealing even though the TOS protects you. Sarah, don't try to reason with fools  They WILL, suck up all your energy. _____________________
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Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
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07-01-2007 20:55
Sarah, don't try to reason with fools They WILL, suck up all your energy. o.O; Yes.... Giiiiive me your eeeeenergy...... I need it to run the power in my house. _____________________
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Coyote Momiji
Pintsized Plutonium
Join date: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 715
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07-01-2007 20:56
Sarah, don't try to reason with fools They WILL, suck up all your energy. ...Okay, Hoover. Seriously. I loathe landbots, but the FBI? FFS... |
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Gina Jacks
Registered User
Join date: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 181
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07-01-2007 21:01
And laughs when they beg for the land back. I can confirm that. We saved all IMs, Dab managed to get an extended conversation last night. Guess what the moron said to him? "are you going to F*** me in the A** with some KY Gel!!!" This moron is planning to have a website too! bad news for him/her, when convo will be posted somewhere else... Where it's allowed to reveal what the crooks say. If you are listening out there, you know who you are, we are going to bring down baby, however long it will takes, you are NOT going to escape and we are NOT going to forget you. If LL won't take care of you, we will. If LL want the bad publicity they deserve, they will. _____________________
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Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
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07-01-2007 21:05
I can confirm that. We saved all IMs, Dab managed to get an extended conversation last night. Guess what the moron said to him? "are you going to F*** me in the A** with some KY Gel!!!" This moron is planning to have a website too! bad news for him/her, when convo will be posted somewhere else... Where it's allowed to reveal what the crooks say. If you are listening out there, you know who you are, we are going to bring down baby, however long it will takes, you are NOT going to escape and we are NOT going to forget you. If LL won't take care of you, we will. If LL want the bad publicity they deserve, they will. What is with this hostile attitude? It's threatening, and sounds like you are looking to seriously harm someone in a way that goes beyond the scope of this entire conversation. Maybe you should take a step back, get some air or something. No matter what they did or didn't do, threats aren't cool, and have no place in the conversation. _____________________
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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07-01-2007 21:47
Putting that under a quote of one of my posts is really low. I'm just trying to apply a tiny bit of common sense here. But I'm used to that. I defended ageplay and rape play based on common sense, now I'm a pedophile and rapist for some people. And of course, if I write something against the nonsensical accusation "landbots are stealing", I must be Merlin. _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-01-2007 22:19
We all have access to the same tools, download a copy of the libsecondlife source code and gcc ,then start writing your own in notepad. When i need something i write my own, if don't know how, i learn how to, if i can't bother to learn, then maybe it wasn't something i wanted badly enough. i know you weren't directing this to anyone in particular, but for my part, i was really just fooling around. _____________________
it was fun while it lasted.
http://2lf.informe.com/ |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-01-2007 23:44
Ray's right about this. Although opportunistic and just plain f***waddish, landbotman's actions are 100% legal. One could argue there's potential for a CIVIL suit against LL, because they are aware of the situation but fail to warn residents about it. But since a decent lawyer capable of winning such a suit would cost WAY more than any money one might lose via landbot, I just don't see this happening. I still think making a landbot script publicly available so that everyone can use it, thereby bringing down the grid, is the best way to force LL's hand on this one. I think you are onto something here. We should all start running landbot constantly, whether we're interested in buying land or not. I could run one the entire time I'm not on the game, anyway. coco _____________________
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-01-2007 23:46
Ahhh, you just want bots to be a strain on the servers and not buy land. Hmmm, I'm not liking that solution. All it means is poor performance for all, and a suspended account. The last time they took notice and action on database hogs, they left the number one bot offender up and running while suspending others who were not running land bots. Sticky solution at best. I'd rather see new bots buying land and giving L-ndbaron M-rlin a run for his money. Who did they suspend, and for what? coco _____________________
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-01-2007 23:58
Well I don't need a TOS in order to understand right and wrong. Knowingly taking advantage or errors and profiting off of errors is not right. When someone tells you, It got really laggy and I missed a number and you refuse to give back something not intended for you at that price, you know what you are doing is wrong without looking at the TOS. Hiding under the TOS and using it to legally steal is cowardly and wrong. When someone tells you that was an error and you know they did not want to sell at that price, YOU KNOW your stealing even though the TOS protects you. I agree. And what gets forgotten is that it is not human beings taking advantage of these errors - humans who take some time to get there (complete with their faces and their minds, to face the seller), and then take some time to click. No, it's SUPERBOT, swooping in from the ether, in ways no one is prepared for, LL doesn't talk about, and no one would have any reason to dream is part of the SL set-up. It's more akin to your sticking a price sticker on an item, and before you get the human chance to notice it's wrong and replace it, the inhuman thing comes in and takes it right out of your hands. Something no human could do. I do believe if there were a bot designed to run into every store in real life the minute the doors open, and wipe out the entire inventory of every sale item there (including those with mistaken sale tags), a responsible government WOULD put an end to it. And where the seller irl has made a mistake, nobody, bot or human, is allowed to come in and take immediate advantage of the faulty label and abscond with the goods, without recourse for the seller. Laws forbid it. coco _____________________
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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07-02-2007 00:00
It got really laggy and I missed a number?? That sounds like a cop-out to me. It's not legally stealing. It may be low, and morally gray, but it's not against the rules for someone to purchase land. With a bot or in person, if someone posts land at a price, wrong price or right, and another buys the land, then it's done. Personal feelings aside in the matter - and that's all they are. People don't like landbots. It makes them feel grimy. Something can be grimy and be perfectly legal - no rules are being broken, and that's what it comes down to, for me. I don't like landbots, but there's a lot of things well within the law or the rules that I don't like. I still wont stop someone else from being able to do it. The point is not whether or not it is illegal according to the current set-up, TOS, and Linden management. The point is that it should not be legal, and the Lindens should fix that, or risk losing more and more residents, and, more importantly, getting a bad rep for the world they run. coco P.S. How does LL sleep at night, that's the question. _____________________
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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07-02-2007 00:07
Who did they suspend, and for what? coco Some bot runners for over-taxing the system. EDIT: Here is the thread about it: /327/0d/184600/1.html _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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07-02-2007 03:17
P.S. How does LL sleep at night, that's the question. They wear ear-plugs. - all the time. |
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Alazarin Mondrian
Teh Trippy Hippie Dragon
Join date: 4 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,549
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07-02-2007 03:37
We all have access to the same tools, download a copy of the libsecondlife source code and gcc ,then start writing your own in notepad. When i need something i write my own, if don't know how, i learn how to, if i can't bother to learn, then maybe it wasn't something i wanted badly enough. Here's your new car, tv set and computer, Kyrah: A box of iron ore, a drum of oil, a container of water, a box of sand and a bag of clay. I'll throw in a handful of rubber seeds for free. Good day to you. _____________________
My stuff on Meta-Life: http://tinyurl.com/ykq7nzt
http://www.myspace.com/alazarinmobius http://slurl.com/secondlife/Crescent/72/98/116 |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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07-02-2007 04:14
P.S. How does LL sleep at night, that's the question. They don't. They're asleep all day. That's why Second Life is in the state it's in right now. _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
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07-02-2007 04:18
They don't. They're asleep all day. That's why Second Life is in the state it's in right now. Holiday  *shoots off some fireworks* _____________________
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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07-02-2007 04:40
I seriously doubt the FBI would waste time on this, and truthfully as a Taxpayer, I'd be pretty annoyed if they did. IF I were to make an isuue I would start with The CA Attorney General's Office, maybe the Dept of Consumer Affairs, The San Francisco Chamber of Commerce, something like that. Maybe get some Hollywood Leftie to champion your cause. I think Martin Sheen is free this week. or maybe Governor Ahnold can get another German TV expose going.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |