Taking Snapshot Without Asking

I thought at one time I had read that people could not take snapshots without asking first, but now I cannot find that anywhere. Can someone point me in the right dirction or if I am mis-remembering what I read.

It seems the not allowing unauthorized pictures clause in the TOS has vanished. I suspect it got lost the last time they sent the TOS out to be cleaned.......

Also because it's possible in various ways to take "snapshots" without making a loud clicking noise and gesture.

Expect that people can take screenshots/snapshots anywhere at any time, because there's certainly no preventing it.

You're most likely mis-remembering something.

Note that under the Debug menu pictures can be taken silently.

"Oh noes! People can steal our souls using photographs and we won't even hear them doing it!"

It seems rather illogical that LL would spend the effort to include a rather overly complex snapshot interface, build a L$10 "sink" around it, and then add some vague terminology to the Terms of Service forbidding us to use it without permission.

Since when did logic have anything to do with it?

More seriously, I guess it will be analogous to RL: If you are in a "public" place the snapshot is a "public" image. If you are, like, in your bedroom in your skybox 700 meters up and having a "tender moment" with your sweetie - or you were having a serious business meeting in your "private" office - and the snapshot was taken using Disable Camera Controls, then, if I were on the jury, I would call your natural response justifiable homicide, and if necessary, I would be the one-vote holdout who would result in a mistrial or an acquittal.

If LL and the 3D virtual reality world are to progress, it really will be necessary to address the privacy issue in a serious and effective way.

From the Knowledge Base:

In a world where people can pan their cam anywhere, log all conversations, map people, etc etc, privacy does not exist. We also have no expectation of privacy beyond what's outlined in the Terms of Service (and Community Standards) which we all agree to when we join Second Life, whether or not we take the time to read them before clicking Yes.

Yes, exactly, Elex. That is the privacy problem that has to be addressed. There are ways of assuring reasonable privacy in RL that are defeated in SL by features like Disable Camera Controls and unreported listening devices. If 3D VR is to come anywheere close to fulfilling its potential, the pathological needs of Peeping Toms and the exploitive wants of VR Spies will have to be set aside in favor of the legitimate self-interest of IMHO aobut 98.4% of the inhabitants of Reality, virtual or otherwise.

Thanks for putting the problem in a nutshell.

i still don't get what's with the people that look for privacy in a global virtual world, it's like coming to the forums and don't want to be quoted. or something.

This is from the knowledge base:

Someone in Second Life is taking pictures, screenshots, or video of Residents without their permission, or in private areas.

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Lives. Screenshots or video taken without permission, in an area where Residents reasonably expect privacy, might violate Linden Lab's rules against disclosure; or, more generally, might constitute harassment


Matthew

No, it's more like purposefully moving next to an international airport when you hate noise pollution.

(Or publicly displaying your artwork if you don't want critique. )

People in general want privacy in general. Other things being equal, the global virtual world that takes that fundamental fact of human nature into account will prevail against the global virtual world that denies and indeed actively overrides that natural human want.

I mean, do you do it in the road? Do you conduct your critical business strategy meetings in your competitor's office? Do you set out in public your exact opinions of people who have any sort of power over you, like professors, work supervisors, superior military officers, or even local cops, where they can read them at will? Do you post your whereabouts and the whereabouts of things you own on public bulletin boards where random criminals or psychos can find them and track you down? Do your post the whereabouts and intimate habits of yourself and your wife/girl friend/sister/mother in public places where stalkers and weirdos can read them and come after you and those female relatives? If you do, what do those female relatives think about it? Do you want to be in a reality where such disclosures are not only ordinary but universal?

Okay, now how long do you think people are going to stay in a "reality" where such things are sussed out by anybody who wants to find out and sold to anybody who wants them for any reason, and used for any purpose? If you are one of the - oh, maybe four or five people in the world - who are comfortable with that, I expect you will get what you deserve.

I think I want a better fate for SL than that situation will result in. And also for me. What you want is your problem. Please do think about it.

1) There is no privacy in SecondLife. Deal with it.

2) Privacy is the divide between SecondLife and Real Life.
*If you don't want your RL name to be associated with your SL behavior, pay $10 for an alt account.
*Don't share your RL details in SL.
*Don't say in open chat anything you can't stand the thought of some participant logging (even if it IS a violation of TOS for them to post that anywhere).
*Don't assume you know or do NOT know the person behind that avatar; again, keep your RL identity out of SL.
*Don't assume an open source virtual world provides you with high quality business privacy. It's analogous to assuming your kid's walkie-talkie is encrypted. Any Cone of Silence here is merely an homage to the Get Smart TV comedy of the 19070.

A good start.

Here's a couple more, though it takes LL fixes to get them.

Establish a texture or other quality for objects that will block camera views through it. The principle is simple: Draw a line between the spying avatar and the camera view he projects via camera controls. If it intersects such an object, the server blocks the view, and sends his vlient a texture of the object (it would typically be a wall) and perhaps a chat line saying "camera view blocked."

Going to Menu>Client>Character>Show Look At and clicking on the latter shows the locus of any avatar's camera view in your view. If there are more camera loci than avatars in a room, someone is observing from elsewhere. You have a spy. Simply allow clicking on that locus and getting the pie menu of info you get when you click on the avatar projecting the camera view from outside. He knows who you are; why shouldn't you know who he is?

I'm sure there are other ideas people could think of.

The arguments opposing privacy initiatives boil down to, "This is the way it is now and will be yea unto the end of all time, Amen." Not so. Much, maybe everything, is subject to change. In this area - Resident privacy - I think change is sorely needed.

They must have sent it to the same dry cleaner's as that judge who lost his jacket at the cleaners and is suing them for millions.

$54 million, to be exact. He lost. The presiding judge (not the suing one) dismissed his suit with prejudice, ordered the plaintiff to pay all court costs and the defendants' legal bills. LL sholuld take note of that outcome.

(wish they would fix the BBC code allready)

this is a fairly good point - particularily about the business meetings.

Linden Labs isnt likely to give US privacy at all, but if they think business is going to use SL as a Virtual Teleconferance system, they will need to Address THAT issue.

I actually find it rather flattering when someone grabs photos of me in public. I put an insane amount of work and effort into my AV and it's nice to know its appreciated.
I don't, however, really want people taking pics of me getting intimate in my home, but IMO if its soooo worth it to them to go thru all the extra stuff needed to get by my security, then fine... knock yerself out kid. I know privacy in SL is pretty weak, that's why it's not worth getting all bent out of shape over.

Exactly. Kind of tough to institute Privacy Laws in SL- we can move our camera's around an entire sim, including through walls. We can sit on a prim & move it through walls. We can hear conversation within a certain distance.

To disable any of those would cripple something else.

OR- we could ask LL to LOCK our views to MouseLook only?

Even your "internet" is not private. Your ISP has the details of when your were on, where you went, what you downloaded.

The more I learn about Servers, the more paranoid I become!!

Or with something like Google, I know your RL or SL Name, all I gotta do is type it in, do some searching. If I can find you, If I have some info on your connection (IP, DNS, etc) from there I can figure out where you're connected at. And then its just a matter of narrowing it down.

Privacy on the Internet is becoming a rare thing indeed

(Note: Not that I care to track ya down. Too much effort. )

Anyone can take photos of MEEEE!!! I don't care! Only I don't have the time to go on lenghty photoshoots as I have too much else to do!!!

I'm with Conifer here ... well, not in the biblical sense I should add .. before you all rush for your Kodak Brownies and bicycles

Call me pedantic but I thought it was a pair of trousers he lost?

And they eventually found them and tried to give them back...

But he wouldn't take them....

And.. this is totally off topic.....

I had my pic taken while lying on a beach, and although I normally won't mind (I am a model), getting photographed from all kinds of angles while lying in a bikini is another matter. It made me feel very uncomfortable and before I could react, he was gone.

Mandy C

Ee, you are pedantic ... AND off topic ... for which the regular sentence is to be sent to Coventry .... sooooo, in your case ... we'll have to devise something *really* special!!

ROFL...

Excellent