Is Anonymity Really Necessary?

I agree.

I'm really concerned with this concept that all your Online activities should be cemented together.

WHY?

I disagree. Why should vandalism online be treated differently than vandalism in the real world? Certainly the amount of monetary damage is different, and should be taken in to account, but if someone has a long history of vandalism as part of a criminal record in the real world, would someone not be justified in taking that in to account when hiring?



No. Those aren't activities that cause harm to others in any way, but until people who enjoy those activities stand up and defend them they will always live in fear of discrimination and harsh judgment. Social mores only change when people of courage and conviction stand up and force them to. I don't think anyone has the right to define for someone else what's out of bounds for make believe. If roleplay in virtual worlds is ever going to be accepted by society as something perfectly within an individual's rights, and not something others have a legal right to discriminate against, it will take laws to that effect and a change in common perception. Neither of those things will ever happen as long as everyone hides behind a cloak of anonymity.

i know of one person personally who went through something similar, worse actually, she was physically injured. Tht one instance is enough for me.

I dont think this is practical.

I think the benefits protecting the "roleplayers" far outweighs the benefits for being able to hold someone accountable for virtual vandalism.

I do not ever see most people coming forth and admitting on the weekends they are a bondage slut online and defending the right to be such.

Aren't we all a bit 'anonymous' in RL?
I may stand by my convictions in everyday interactions but do act differently in different situations - what I do and say at work, at play, at home, etc. I wouldn't want my colleagues or boss to know everything about me and what I do out of the office, yet I'm still the same person. I'm not necessarily ashamed (but would maybe be a little embarrassed).

I do too, but right now they aren't actually protected by anything other than hiding. If they get found out, anyone can legally discriminate against them with impunity.



I'm sure you're right, but it's a great shame. People don't tend to look beyond their own comfort to what it takes to set the wheels of change in motion, to eventually make it possible for someone in the future to not face such discomfort.

No, you're not playing devil's advocate, you're playing big brothe. That 'people that prefer privacy have something to hide' line has been parroted by LEGIONS of dicatatorial nations and individuals of an authoritarian mindset for years.



For many, yes it is. And not necessarily embarrassing dreams, but dreams in general. YOU apparently want 'Facebook with 3D avatars". I do not....I honestly do not care who you are, but am curious why you are fixated on knowing who I and ohters are?



I say you've not gotten out much into RL. Small town / neighborhood drama and politics can be HUNDREDS of times more brutal than anything I have seen here or ingame. Uncivil, rude, crude....and everyone knows each other! Known ID <> Civility, not by a long shot.

Honestly, I think you are nothing but the digital equivalent of a nosy neighbor, desperately wanting to poke their noses into others lives. Let me be honest as to my reason for anonymity....its not ID theft, its not stalking....the fact is, my RL ID is....NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS! You don't need to know, and I have no real reason to TELL you. Pure and simple. I tell the info to people that I feel need it, but not ot every nosy person in the universe. Its none of their business

Being able to deny someone the ability to be a douchebag on a virtual world while at the same time opening yourself up to being abused in real life by that douchebag and many others that simply don't play that game... ie. someone who's plays nice online but secretly starts signing you up for porn magazine subscriptions, I'd rather not have that. I've met lots of great people in SL but I've met and read about many terrible people I'd rather not meet and would never want to have my information. Not to mention that if you make even the slightest mistake in SL, you'd be open to everyone second-guessing, armchair detectives snooping on your life to see if you fit their miscreant profile, mob-rule as people go after you because they're egged on by someone you slighted,well meaning people who will try to stop you for you own good, vigilante pranks, attacks on your character, all sorts of escalation. If accountability is what people want then revealing people's information is not the way to go.

Nope. I did my time. Besides, I'm only one of thousands of military personnel with TS clearances.

why do you think people should have to be accountable in a virtual world? that doesnt make sense to me. also, stalking is alot more common that you think, especially when the person stalking you has anonymity and lack of reprocussions. i really hope you dont mean to suggest putting people in rl danger because its not a big deal for you.

And that's why civil liberties organizations exist in real life ... which is the place for such advocacy.

Really, Chip, I respect you greatly, and I think it speaks well for your character that you are so secure in yourself that you don't see the incredible boon SL grants to those who need to escape from THEMSELVES.

To deny people the simple pleasures of escapism ... not necessarily into Gor or anything at all controversial, just someplace, someone ELSE ... oh I think to rip that remaining magic from SL would rip its soul out.

i really cant believe you are saying this. i have been stalked online before and i think most rl females who are gamers could tell you a story or two about it. what youre suggesting isnt just dangerous for women in rl but any children they may live with as well. a good parent would not open themselves up to that type of thing. people can and do show up unannounced on others doorsteps. There are alot of unsafe people online. You saying there isnt doesnt make that statement true.

Do you have any statistics to back that up or are you just going by your own fears? Do you know how the actual risk compares to risks you face every day without a single thought?

Exactly. Working as a civil servant, be it teacher, law enforcement, tax collector, or Defense Secretary (God forbid we see Dick Cheney running around SL as his RL self) necessarily requires a "clean" public image. I'd be really concerned if I saw my Congresswoman acting out her personal fantasies in Gor. It's just not right. Not that I care what she does! There are, however, a LOT of people who would be very offended or at least marginalized by knowing that she plays a Gorean slave in SL. So what if she's the best Congresswoman we've ever had? The little minds of the world would slap her down so quickly that her head would spin.

if you disappear we will know what happened

Originally Posted by Chip Midnight:
Personally I think it would be a great thing if everyone had to be accountable for their actions. Clearly some bad things can happen as a result of not being anonymous, like the previously mentioned stalking, identity theft, and whatnot, but I think such things are no more common than, say, muggings in real life. No one seems to suggest that no one should ever have to leave their houses and go out on the street as a result. I think people's fear of bad things happening to them as a result of using real information online is rather irrationally exaggerated compared to real world risks that everyone takes for granted. (No offense to those who've had bad things happen to them online).


Exactly. There are RL risks. We face them every day. But some of us are here to escape RL and it's risks. Not replicate them here. Your ideals of online activities not impating RL and changing the world are commendable. But for a lot of us it isn't practical at this time. For those who work in more liberal. creative worlds, this may not be a problem, but for us who are Educators, public employees, corporate and professional people it is. And not to take a potshot at men, but they never seem to understand why women are concerned about stalkers and other harrasers. So if SL is to become a 3d myspace or facebook, then fine. It'll just have one less customer.

Having accountability *does not* automatically translate into the forced sharing of RL identity. Again, Anonymity does not need to be a black or white thing. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason that RL information must be shared to create an atmosphere of accountability. There are other ways to accomplish that.

This goes beyond just an SL issue. Anonymity is a double-edged sword. I'm not suggesting even for a moment that the sword needs to be destroyed. It just needs to be dulled a little bit.

I have an idea.. All those that think we should have our RL identity public do this for the next month.. Make up a couple of nice signs with big letters..

On these signs print the following:

Your real name.
Your Address
Your Phone number
Your email address
Where you work
Your SS number
Your Real Age.

Walk around with this sign for a month.. Put them on your car..
By the end of the month, the identity thieves will have cleared out your bank account, and trashed your credit. You will be on every phone solicitor's list. You have a couple of dozen wierdo's camped out on your lawn.. After all of that, then come back and tell us all how we need to make our RL identities public information. And the internet is 1,000 times worse.. In RL only a few hundred people would see your sign, maybe a few thousand if you live in a big city.. But online it would be MILLION'S that could access that information..

(btw, with the even just the first two bits of info, your name and address, I can for a very small fee, get all of the rest of the info in a matter of mintues)

I have little problem with LL knowing who I am, they already do.. But a public tag that anyone can read? No way in hell!

Even in RL, when I meet someone I don't say, "Hi! I'm Lizz Silverstar, I live at 5555, North Nowhere Ave, in beautiful LostCity"...

No I say "Hi I'm Lizz"

Exactly. Frankly speaking, the SL scandals of the past year would have been very damaging to my position if my SL were known at work. It's not about me being ashamed of what I do here, but it is about other people's perceptions. And call me a coward if you want, but all I've worked for is not worth being thrown away on a computer game. If your particular relationship, be it of a business or personal nature requires disclosure, there are ways to do it. It doesn't need to be advertised here.

The crux of the issue is, if SL required full disclosure of one's identity, the rest of the internet does not. So someone could use that RL info to launch any number of anonymous attacks against someone they didn't like. Full disclosure of identity would only be viable if it was universal. As long as the rest of the internet remains virtually anonymous, SL will need to be as well.

Anonymity is a choice in SL

Anonymity anytime can post their RL info in their profile...if they CHOOSE

Some just stay anonymous because they can, the Right to Choose is reason enuff for alot of people.It`s choice that does not in and of itself harm anyone, so why not excercise it just because it`s there.

Pretty much the main reason I do...just because I can, I do Alot of things just because I can,having free choice is Reason enuff for me quite often.

Another reason to withhold RL info is because, so many RL things that can happen with this Info, ARE more likely to occur when you pass it round the internet.

I get spammed in snail-mail, even had a stalker or two Rl.....but, my e-mails get a hundred times the junk in them, I`ve had no LESS than 5 internet stalkers in the past 3 years

I can meet more people in 1 DAY on SL sometimes than I EVER met in a year RL .

Thus increasing my chances of someone con-ing me,stalkin me, markin down my name to spam me later, and a hundred other things you can do with my RL info....ID theft an obvious one...as is, it`s a matter of chance is someone does an ID theft on me...add SL in and the risk will increase,How do I know someone I piss-off here won`t steal my info, and use it to trash my credit in revenge for some wrong they percieve I did them?

Or maybe I refuse to sell my land to them...My RL name starts gettin slander half-way across the internet.
Though the slander could happen anyway, did once actually, simply from RL people knowing my RL name, but in SL...but as I said, I`ve met more people in SL since I joined LESS than a year ago, than I can re-call meeting in RL, in the past 3 years, and I mean meeting and talking with...

Also in SL, there are so many more reasons for someone to harme or my name....I don`t own Jack in RL,`cept my `puter...SL, a club, a store in the near future, a few little parcels of land, a few others I dropeed because of a guy that wanted them was grifin my store and happened to be buddy buddy with the sim-owner.
The Gods only know what he may or may not done if he had my RL info...

Everytime I have to give RL info to ANYONE, RL or on the net...I increase my chances for problems, SL gives me the option to minimize my risk, to a small degree

Besides RL info don`t really mean much for some...

In my RL I have had 3 different identies,other than my actual legal,one complete with social security numbers,Drivers License, state ID`s, bank accounts, one even had a Passport.

So even if I gave the RL info for all of SL to see....HOW would you know it`s the REAL ME?

These comparisons of MySpace and Facebook with their popularity to SL is a joke.

Entirely different platform`s from SL

Anybody want`s know my RL name...lol pick a card any card...

One of them might even be real, or maybe I`ll drop another $5000 and make a new identity.

Just to stack the deck

Many of us are already so "public" in real life that the anonymity of SL is a relief. When the gates are locked and the doors bolted in my real life, I feel more secure. I don't think any of us are truly willing to "share" our REAL selves with strangers here, are we?

Speaking as someone who has actualy been stalked in real life, I can assure you that private solitude and personal isolationism are luxuries rather than disadvantages.

knot me

Not sure if you agree with me. But I think SL's success lies in its approach to privacy. The moment we have to disclose our real selves is the moment I switch off.

I hate to say it, but we're already there:

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=110040



What I think is getting most confused in this thread, is the difference between Anonymity and Privacy. They're not one and the same, and never have been. Anonymity is a privlidge, that I think we're going to find evaporating in the coming years whether we like it or not. Privacy, on the other hand is a right, that should indeed be protected at all costs.