How is babby formed?

This confirms something that Lexie said to Mentors (http://vteamblog.com/2009/01/30/monthly-mentor-meeting-transcript-january-30-2009-10am-pst). Thanks SuezanneC, for posting about that in /327/d6/308072/2.html#post2329635. There I whined that it would have been better if they'd picked as a model something other than a meme for failure (e.g., http:/www.somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf -- whence came the title of this thread). And there are a bunch of these that aren't (yet?) the target of universal tech-pundit ridicule, notably stackoverflow.com (programming topics) and Mahalo Answers.

The thing is, I'm really not sure how I feel about this whole approach. For a certain class of "how do I" questions with straightforward answers, this seems like it would work well. There are some questions like that in RA and the content creation forums, and it would be a win for folks with questions to see existing answers using the super-efficient search that such sites use. This might be more approachable for new Forums users.

But if this is to replace *all* of the Forums, I have doubts.

Such sites have very little inter-post discussion. Everything is directed to the original question--which is fine for the kinds of simple questions that get asked of Mentors or at the Help Islands, for example. But when we're trying to explore something more complex, or where the *sequence* of posts in the thread is itself content, I think this will simply fail. (Just one example from Scripting Tips: Lear's "MLPV2 questions & bug reports" at /54/48/270890/1.html; how the heck would that work in a strict Q&A format?) It's all very well to *say* that "this isn't what the Forums are for" but its a need that these Forums have filled from the start, and there's no obvious alternative except for the more advanced posters to flea across the street where they can still build on each others' answers in a discussion format.

Do we know if the plans are to dumb-down all Forums content to the strict Q&A karma-based format?

Am I too pessimistic about its usefulness for the most valuable content on the Forums?

I'm a bit concerned too, even though I don't have any experience with similar failures beyond having a laugh at the SA animation. Imagine a graph for online forums/information portals, plotting "EASILY MANAGED" against "USEFUL" and it's easy to picture the line diving down toward something that technically works smooth as silk but is utterly useless for many purposes.

Let us hope that the LL vision doesn't venture too far out along that line. "Like a wiki but easier to use" certainly isn't conducive to ongoing discussions, even if the most useful information does somehow rise cream-like to the top.

Too pessimistic? Absolutely not! I was thinking the same thing yesterday and actually it would not surprise me if this is exactly what happens. I am restating what I have already posted in the other thread but here goes anyways:

The Lindens have never "gotten" the forums and I have never understood this. The only possible explanation is that no one ever, EVER ventured below the old General or present RA. It would be completely impossible to answer a large percentage of the questions posed in the Content Creation forums in any other manner except a forum. Some responses require multi-page answers from several sources to flesh out all of the possible ramifications. Most answers benefit from actual discussion instead of just question/answer.

EDIT: Another good example is this thread:

/8/8e/306283/1.html

It takes reading every single post in all four pages for a novice to come to a full understanding.

Some might suggest this thread would be better elsewhere such as Lear having his own Forum for example. But I would not agree, a good example would be the long running LSLEditor thread, constant updates and comments kept it up on the first page of Scripting Tips and plainly visible to new scripters. The greatest disservice that could have been done is what Alphons did end up doing; he created his own forum and LSLEditor for all intents and purposes became invisible to noobs.

I am worried as well. The only board similar to Yahoo Answers that I have experience with is Yahoo's itself, and it is not at all conducive to discussion. In fact, I think Yahoo Answers does not attract the sort of deeply skilled answerer that are such treasures here, folks like Chosen, Lear, etc..

There is also no way to build community on YA. Would a group of folks from Yahoo's board have built an inworld hangout or banded together to help a member in ill health? I've never seen anything like that there.

I would appreciate hearing ideas on how we can affect the eventual outcome once they roll this out. I think all we can do right now is wait and see.
.

Eeeps, that sound horrible! Useful for "answers", and would have made "Linen Answers" much better and less effort for them if they had used something like that though...

But a forum is for dialog and interaction, developing collective wisdom, not one-shot q & a!

Sure, there are some repetitive questions from people who don't read the stickies , but otherwise, the discussions in RA and animation (like the aforementioned scripting) and elsewhere are totally different now than a year ago, and from a year before that, because of all that has been learned before!

But they've never understood things like this, a blog is not for discussions, it's for publishing. A forum is for discussions!

You don't learn as much asking questions anyways, you learn by being exposed to new ideas. Students don't go to school knowing what to ask, they go without questions and pre-conceived notions, info is given to them and they only ask things if they are confused.

That concept destroys the very way communities grow and interact and share knowledge and learn together, each member adding a piece until there's a cohesive whole...

Which doesn't mean to say it doesn't have it's place, I would love to see "Linden Answers" come back and there be a useful place residents could go to see questions answered!

Thankfully there was an outcry the last time they tried to take away forum content and they revised their plans, hopefully they will announce their intentions first this time too and embrace input...

/me worries

The plot thickens. Seems like the Lindens indeed want to destroy the forum as we know it. So sad, if the dialogue functionality goes away.

I guess I will fall back to my old mantra:

"Hey, Blue, you DID get RESIDENT INPUT on the new blog/forum ideas, right? You DIDN'T do what Linden Lab has ALWAYS been so horribly atrocious about in the past and ACTUALLY, you know, communicate with your RESIDENTS about the issues back in the design phase, right? You DID do the common-sense due-diligence minimum of your JOB, right? Something that ANY competent company which knows how to communicate with and involve its customers, right?"

If not, this is nothing more than the next exciting installment of "Hubris Heights", where there is no mountain tall enough that Linden Lab won't gladly climb it.

This is an excellent point. I think you're right: many of the most knowledgeable and articulate people won't post on a Yahoo Answers-type board---the limitations, and inability to communicate as fully as they do now, will be frustrating enough that they just won't bother.

And another, non-trivial reason that I think you're right and those people won't post as much as they do now: it simply won't be much fun.





I would guess that this is precisely why the Linden decision-makers want to go in the YA direction.

From their point of view, a Community of Residents is nothing but bad news. The last thing any business owner wants is for the users to band together.

((I don't assume that everyone who works for LL is inclined to the union-busting point of view...but those who make the decisions probably are; people who rise to the top of businesses often do so with an Us (the company) against Them (the users, employees, customers, or what-have-you) philosophy.))

babbies are formed when the Mommy Prim and the Daddy prim love each other very very much, and then they ask the Stork Prim for a babby. The Stork Prim puts the babby under a cabbage prim for Mommy and Daddy to find.

Hey guys, some excellent points made here...I'll just jump in quickly and then get back to hammering on new blogs ^_^

The Yahoo-Answers-like functionality I had mentioned previously is actually part of the new blog software, but I agree with Qie that there's a distinct value provided by inter-post discussion, as seen in the current resident answers forum, and don't know of any plans to eliminate that.

Nor am I aware of plans to "destroy" the forums, Paola. To my knowledge, we're planning on getting them back into shape, but I'll leave it at that until I know more ;p

"Hey, Blue, you DID get RESIDENT INPUT on the new blog/forum ideas, right?"

You mean all those people yelling at us for the past year that the blog/forum had become crap? Yes, we took notes

Thanks for letting us know this--I know this interactivity would have been what I'd have regretted losing most, if the Forums went strictly Yahoo Answers-ish.

Thank you for the clarification Blue. Now we can get back to waiting impatiently for the shiny new toy to play with.

Thanks for jumping in, Blue. So let's see what you will come up with.

Thanks for the response, Blue.



That doesn't answer the question.

Just because you "took notes" on what was wrong with what we have now and in the past doesn't mean that you got feedback on your proposed solution to make it "right". It also doesn't mean it will be any better than what we have, and it could be a LOT worse as a result.

Hence, I ask again, you DID get RESIDENT INPUT on the **NEW** blog/forum ideas, right? Or, is this something that was completely planned and developed in the proverbial smoke-filled room with no significant resident input?

To make an babby:
1) It takes serum and pours it into a box
2) Lifebox blossoms with smalls
3) To maintain fleshbox, it is necessitate to give it a foods.
4) Come in a time, boxflaps are opened and babby is expelled.

ooo! look

TOLD YOU SO beta forum.

Hows the hair, Blue

/win

(Quoted while I fetch a chisel to etch this into stone)

Thanks much for dropping by, Blue! I'm gonna choose to be reassured, and not take a microscope to your words looking for equivocation.

Now, don't make me sad! *shakes finger*

oh wait... that's good news.

One problem with this thinking is that in Yahoo Answers, the answers are rated, so the ones that someone rates as most helpful will filter to the top.

Do you remember the old Resident rating system? I was not here then, but heard plenty about it. What about the old Vote stands in venues? Yeah, those worked real well also.

So, if I can manage to be the darling of the Forums, then all my answers get flagged as being very helpful, by everyone that reads them? Yeah - talk about high school popularity contests.

1 user rates you positively.


I wish while Blue was in striking distance someone would have asked why THIS forum has been damn near unusable for the past 3 days

Yeppers. The only way the answers that rise to the top would actually BE the 'most helpful' is if all posting were anonymous.

Otherwise, a large proportion of the ratings will be based on the user name, rather than on the content of the post.

Rate my comment!

Yes it seems a little bit silly and ill conceived, we'll have to see how it turns it out.

Any word on the new blog that is supposed to appear early this week?