Mainland Sim purchase group for creative builders

After seeing sim after sim depreciated by casinos, sex shops, clubs, etc, I've decided to try to get people together to form a land purchase group; a sort of social contract between land-owners in the sim. This is to be for non-profit, and my role in it shall be to merely provide tier and capital for the initial sim buy.

Each member would individually own land, but agree to certain terms before purchase to keep the sim great! Hopefully this will allow for constructive things like alternating group builds and themes, pathways made, etc.

Here's a first draft of a notecard I am writing. Feel free to comment and make suggestions for changes. If you are interested in this idea, please search for "creative sim purchae group" and add yourself as a member, or IM me. Depending on average parcel size, this thing needs 20-30 people to get going.


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Thirdland Community Information
Sim Name:

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Basic Information:

Are you a creative builder who is looking for mainland in a community of likeminded people? If so, thirdland may be for you! Thirdland is a community where the purchasers are pre-screened to make sure the community thrives.

Thirdland is designed to fill the gap between the anachistic state of normal mainland, and the middlemanship of private island, providing full ownership of the parcel to the owner, while stablishing guidelines to keep the sim free of casinos, adlots and intensive commerce.

The core of the thirdland idea is a group which all the landowners belong to, providing a community forum and place for communication, a social contract, and a way to keep records. It enables the community to negotiate and resolve disputes, and if necessary, provide means to enforce the social contract through means which comply to Linden Lab's CS and TOS.

One tactic members could use if all else fails is putting up walls on each residen't land who surrounds the offending plot, to pressure the owner into compliance. Protests and other CS-complying means are additional tools. However, because each original member is screened before buying, and agrees to the purchase covenant, this will hopefully be unnecessary.

Even though such tools are availiable, Thirdland is meant to be first and foremost a positive experience. Using the group, users can do things normally impossible on mainland such as establishing connecting roads, pathways, and pedestrian bridges, builds and buildings that match styles and perhaps have continuation across parcels, and organize events.

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Purchase Agreement:

1) The parcel owner agrees to use land for personal builds. Light commerce is allowed, but it should not be the focus of the parcel, and any small shops must have the appearance of a regular building, i.e. not a "yardsale," a box with an open front, and not have rotating signs.

2) The following uses are not allowed: gambling, dance clubs, sexually-oriented builds such as sex item shops or escort services, or the use of camping chairs.

3) the parcel owner is expected to use parcel occupancy, physics, and script resources so that they do not take up a largely disproportionate use of the server's resources.

4) Aesthetically unpleasing builds are not allowed. This can be a relative thing, and so the first reaction to this should be to help the user with an aesthetically pleasing build by offering assistance to texturing or building, or give the locations of good pre-made builds for sale.

5) Land can be resold to another member of the sim group, or another individual providing they are given this notecard and agree to the terms of the purchase convenant.

6) Banlines, buy pass lines, or account status limitation lines are prohibited, except if they are used as temporary means to combat griefing or other issues.

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If you agree to these terms, please create a new notecard (so that it shows you as creator of the notecard,) copy-paste the text in this notecard, "sign" below by typing your account name, rename the notecard to "Signed thirdland agreement," and made it no-mod. Then send it to the current sim group manager(s).

Account Name:
Date:

Nice ideas, although I would keep hold of the excess money in case of void periods in the future.

you have some very valid points, which is why potential purchasers would be screened before buying. A sort of casual interview That way, one can get a feel for as to their SL stability, potential issues, quality of builds, etc.

I too thought that something of this sort would be very nice, and floated the idea to assess interest (and initial blathering here). In my case, I was thinking private island rather than mainland, both to maintain actual control, should things go bad, but also for the freedom to terraform freely.

Unlike your plans, I did not think that enforcement of an "aesthetic" without a theme would work. What some find attractive in a modern build, may be attacked as blocky and angular by another. Those sorts of issues may be potentially problematic with your idea. Also, I had no interest in becoming any sort of an "enforcer", with respect to builds.

Best of luck to you, though -- I hope it works!

One big risk you run with doing it as mainland and everyone donating tier to a group, is that if someone leaves without warning, the group's tier goes down, which may lead to the group having some land auto-abandoned by the system.

We are pursuing the same idea and have about half a sim now but we find that establishing a long term friendship came first...

As much as we tried, finding the right fit doesn't come that easy and no one wants to enforce anything.

As it evolves, it is helping that each of us controls substantial amounts of the land so that those issues don't come into it when we have "issues".

But it sure is nice to be building a creative neighborhood with people you feel good with..good luck.

Agreed, that sounds like a truly wonderful neighborhood to me. My main goal as a builder is to become good enough at it artistically speaking, that I can feel proud of what I create. It's a long way to go still, though, but some day I would love to live in a virtual neighborhood like that. Even a RL one

I have got own land sort had similar goal but whole lot less rules but what ended up happening is I have found need for banlines and members of my private group brotherhood of the twisted prim come and go and I pretty much pay for everything.
For me ideally I would rather find group of friends who I trust, share goals and projects with somehow acquire a sim but ideally this may not happen for long time and I have no interest in losing the hundreds of us dollars I have already invested to pay someone else and follow their rules that I have no relationship with or trust in.
Good luck though.

I think this idea is completely possible and although I tried something similar myself a few times and failed badly I still believe it can be done.

I suspect the trick is going to be buying the sim up front and then eating the cost for a month or so while you establish a user base. If you have the stomach and bank balance to stick it out though I'm sure, 100% sure that this idea or something similar can be mutually beneficial to everyone. Cheaper tier for the residents, nicer neighborhood for the whole grid to share and a little extra pocket money for the sim manager.

I like the idea too, but do you have to be a builder? What about people who just appreciate other people's builds? I have an eye for landscaping and put other people's caves and falls onto my land in Carlisle with some nice results. Although I was not the building of everything, it still feels like I put my creative stamp on it.

Not restricting it to builders might give you the number of avatars you need to make it work.

Or what about having a sim with just a "No CCCC" clause as the only restriction: No Casinos, Clubs, Camping or Crappy ads or ugly houses.

I have done something similar.

I bought 512M for 6000L but decided I wanted 1024M so bought next door plat at same price. At the time it was a new sim so no businesses. I wanted to keep it as resedential as I could so as quickly as I could bought up 1/8 of the Sim, a little more than I could afford but worth the effort I thought and included buying a Casino to "knock it down". I have now found out that my neighbour has bought 1/4 of same Sim for similar reasons. We do have a few businesses but nothing intrusive which is nice, so far. There is a 1024M plot beside my land I intent to buy at the end of the month if I can, 1024M for L$47,500 for same reason as before.

There is no Covenant so Tenants join a group with rules that make the properties they rent kind of part way between PG and M. Break group rules they are kicked out of the group and leave after being given a reasonable amount of time to put right the situation or maybe get a polite reminder from me assuming I am aware. Rules are pretty laid back.

You have an interesting idea. I would suggest that you work with friends rather than advertise for group members that could withdraw their contribution at any time? I had thought of a group but the only one I would ever work with would be my SL Wife.


Andrew

I people contribute land with tier then it shouldn't matter about the tier except in the sense that your group got free land you need tier for.

Having a "buy in with tier and L$" sounds like a momre solid approach than hoping people will never sell to advertising barons. Of course it means they have to trust to the group owner what land they put in, but these things are never without risk- and honestly that's not much different than paying a private island owner out of your paypal and hoping they don't sell the sim next week.

It's a nice idea. Someone *will* put a particle overloaded giant black box casino in the sim next door right on the border though. People just can't seem to help themselves.

I have had similar ideas, but like been said above I am afraid the group is not the best solution, or without the group it would be only a matter of time until the first camping place will ruin the sim.

So I have been thinking about bying my own sim, choose a wildlife theme, terraform it to a realistic and intresting place (not divide it to 4x4 grid and have 16 small square shaped islands ), add some small roads, paths, trees and other decorations on the common "protected area" and then rent the rest of the sim as I can't pay 295USD in a month for this hobby.

This would fulfill the idea of the OP I guess, but I understand the problem that how could you all trust the PI owner, me? But then again you will only lose the rent, which would be the same or even a bit lower than the tier fee on the mainland with 2k or 4k land, as I am not planning this to become a rich land baron, just to have a lag free great looking place with nice neighbors

You know, there seems to me more general interest in this general concept and dissatisfaction with what the current mainland has to offer, that I wonder whether some of us in this thread might be compatible to group together to try it.

Janann -- your idea was closest to what I also envisioned. Although I saw myself in the position as the "island owner", with someone whose vision was close enough, I could see myself joining in on someone else's goal as well.

I like Raymond Figtree's simple covenant:


(Defining "Ugly" is still worrisome to me, though.)

I would add in "No lag-inducing mega malls (100's of slow-loading textures) or irresponsible script use."

I'm certainly willing to give it a try and I have the money to commit as well. The thing is there are always several people willing to do this but it's hard to find customers.

I like Aminom's rules a lot and if you want to evenly split the profit/risk I'd love the opportunity. If somehow two or three investors could join forces then the cost of holding the sim for a month or two while we find buyer's really won't be that bad.

I am a "trust but verify" sort of person. I could also be an investor, but do not see any built-in safe mechanism that does not rely on trust, for joining together, other than using MAINLAND, and actually having each investor own a 1/4 sim.

For various reasons, I think Private Island may be a better way to go, and for that, there will always be one person who holds all control.

If you do a PI then the whole thing is meaningless since all the "owners" are just renters. Mainland is the smart way to go and as you said there's no need to trust anyone since one person can buy the sim and then sell chunks of it proportionally to the investors.

Or no commercial activity at all.

A double prim system could work very well too, where half of the sim area is used for the scenery, like hills, ponds, paths, etc. while not being away from the prim number of each plot.

But then again the problem with the mainland is that it works for awhile, but naturally some of the residents will leave SL sooner of later and might not care of the contract any more and just sell the plot to anyone, to a casino opportunist for example, and the effort is lost. On a private island this would not happen as long as the owner of the sim is involved.

As the risk is so high on the mainland in my opinion, I will rather buy a sim myself and set this up.

Here's some more thoughts on the matter.
* Encourage larger plots over smaller since people with more at stake are less likely to skip town. I'd guess 4096 and above.
* Possibly, maintain a fund for buying back land if the original buyer wants to sell it.
* Peer pressure is strong. I like the idea of keeping everyone in a group where land issues and plans can be discussed.
* Offer people the option of renting the land if they can't afford to buy. Arty types are generally not wealthy and so they may not be keen to fork over large sums even if they want to live in your sim.
* Consider paying residents for donated tier, it can be a lot cheaper than paying LL.
* Consider insisting that abandoned land is sold back to you or the group at a fair market value.
* People can argue back and forth about whether the group will hold together in the long term and whether estates are better than mainland but the fact remains that many people choose mainland for many very good reasons and those people will be better served by this system than by buying some other random parcel.

The above quotes perfectly sum up the risks and benefits of the 2 approaches -- not saying that either is "better" or "worse".

I tend to agree with Janann. I foresee that the ONLY way to ensure a Sim that stays "clean", is to be able to maintain control. On the mainland, that means renting only. On a PI, "selling" is just renting with an upfront fee.

Because of that, Elanthius, in my plan, I personally never intended to "sell" the land, whether to truly sell Mainland (losing control of it), or "selling" Private Island land (because it's not really selling anything at all -- I will not "trust" a private island owner's non-enforcible promise that s/he is "selling" me land, when that person still retains all control, SO, I would not expect anybody to trust ME in that way either.)

Also, to break up a whole mainland Sim removes the benefit of economy of scale with tier costs. This wouldn't likely affect you, because you are likely far, far above ever having to think about the tier schedule from 512 sqm to 65,536 sqm, but for me, owning LESS than an entire Sim of Mainland exposes me to the higher L$/sqm tier schedule. I am only at 2,048 sqm tier level now; if I go up, I will go to 65,536 for L$/sqm reasons, not to 4,096. Or, I will go Private Island, and dispense with tier altogether.



All those thoughts are excellent. But, the cynic in me notes that any "contract" is not enforcible, once you sell mainland. We could "encourage" larger plot usage, because it decreases, but does not minimize risk. Plenty of casinos are >4096. If the original buyer wants to sell it, a capitalist would sell to the highest bidder, not necessarily back to the group. Peer pressure hasn't worked well enough to remove the 16 sqm plots in the world. Re: renting vs. buying, see above -- I never intended to put in any up-front cost, other than weekly rent. Donated tier is a great idea for mainland -- agreed -- but, in the end, the economy of scale of owning an entire mainlan Sim means that only ONE person needs to be premium, and everybody else would not need to be premium at all. You could "insist" that abandoned lab go back to the group, but there is no method of enforcement.

I think that with a group of real friends with a similar vision, Elanthius' mainland vision, with all tier concentrated into one owner (for tier level reasons), is economically far more sound, both for monthly fee reasons as well as the ability to more easily cash in the chips if all else fails.

But, for an attempt at bringing together "mostly strangers" who "mostly share the same ideals", a Private Island may be more expensive, but safer. And, you can do more with landscaping, and not ever worry about neighboring Sims and their usual mainland issues.

Janann, if you go ahead with your plan, and are willing to relax the "NO commercial" to "low-impact" commercial, I'd be very interested in hearing more about your plans. Your statement about "half of the sim area is used for the scenery, like hills, ponds, paths, etc." makes me long for an area like that to live near.

Ged, I almost contacted you a week or two ago when I visited your LandScanner web page
This might really work if we find few more enthusiasts, or at least residents, as of course "normal" people can live there too.
What would be extremely interesting is to grow the community and later join several sims together and create a seamless small continent. But ah well, a bit early to plan that. Maybe if the first sim becomes first profitable I/we could expand it and even buy those special low prim islands (four with the price of one).

So...anyone who is interested in living on a PI with a main focus on the landscape, probably double prim plots (to save the land for landscaping of the common areas) and low rent, just send me a PM or contact in game. If we get enough people I might order a PI and contact then you and we can try together design the landscape. I have already some sketches but don't want to reveal all details here.

I seriously do wish you much luck with this endeavor. Unfortunately, once you really sell a mainland parcel, you don't have a leg to stand on for enforcing any sort of behavior at all on the new owners. I'll also warn you that walling in a "non compliant" land owner is considered griefing and a TOS violation, and will just get you and your other land owners AR'ed by the one you are trying to pressure into compliance.

I am a Basic member, so I can't consider supporting your effort directly. But if any of your residents ever want the services of a skilled builder and terraformer, I would be quite happy to work for them, to promote such a worthwhile experiment. I'll even offer them a preferred rate on my services.

Unfortunately, the deck is heavily stacked against you. "Peer Pressure" is only useful against individuals who care about their reputation. The people who divide parcels into 16 M2 bits covered with rotating ads and selling them at extortion prices couldn't care less about their reputation or your covenants. Neither do the people who lag a sim to death with camping chairs. Bots that can buy land faster than a Human can click on a mouse won't care about your covenants, and will take advantage of your resident's mistakes to worm their way into your area. And no matter how much land you buy on the mainland, you'll still have the typical mainland mess camped at your borders.

I am afraid that the only effective solution to the mainland's anarchy will be to convince Linden Lab that their Wild West, Anything Goes, Hands Off policy regarding zoning is a mistake, and that at least some of the mainland needs to be zoned to prevent the types of problems that you seek to avoid. Until Linden Lab is willing to take your side instead of siding with the land speculators and casino owners and camping chair operators, you'll be fighting a major uphill battle.

You are right, but for me the only option has always been a private island.

ps. I have been a Basic member too few years now, but that doesn't matter on a private island