RE: ageplay / child porn linden blog

ageplay has been going on in SL for quite sometime, i dont agree with it, like it or condone it, in fact i totally detest it, its just " icky " and seeing as the main grid is for adults only it should not be possible to make child avies.
it makes me wonder if LL are so set against it aswell why have they allowed it on the main grid for so long seeing as its supposed to be a adult only enviroment.

the blog entry is unlear in parts:
"Despite requests, neither ARD nor the Germany authorities have yet disclosed to us the location of the photographic images in question, and we have not been able to independently locate them. No further details about the images or the potential investigation reported in the German press are known to us at this time."

on the video is displays video footage is the video footage the images they refer to ?
are are the images something totally different ?

the video is here for anyone interested in seeing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk8uNWF77gg


i think Second Life has to be policed the same as RL in the fact that they cannot just
set rules to cover their a$$es and leave the population to get on with things themselfs.
they need a stronger presance on the grid, Liasons interacting with SL's users keeping
and eye out for " taboo " content and happenings, whilst also giving support when needed.
i for one would love to see more Lindens on the grid
as i hardly see any except for when iv'e had to call them for a problem.

OMG someone finally got hold of a video of it happening!

OMG is that Robin Linden!

You're lucky. Most people don't see them even when they do call for a problem.

Does this mean that the trick now is to title every request for help as "Ageplay!" as a replacement to the standard scream of "Fire!"

LL simply doesn't have the manpower (as they don't have the revenues to engage the manpower). Ever get a "We're busy right now and can't come help deal with the horrible horrible griefer as we're understaffed so file an Abuse Report... oh, you already filed an Abuse Report? *CommentsAreClosed Linden has left this session. You are talking to no one*" response during a Live Help session?

As the Live Help resource was overburdened with requests from both free accounts (people not paying for access to the resource) and customer accounts (people paying for access to the resource) LL made the decision to close Live Help. Note that LL did not make a decision to continue to provide the service to Payment Info Used accounts. Ultimately, this means LL has no idea who their customers are and, when faced with a decision between serving their customers or expanding their growth among non-customer accounts, LL will choose growth, even when growth of non-paying accounts overburdens their system.

The age/identity verification system that is expected to be put into place is optional as LL does not want to stall an ever-increasing resident population figure.

About the only thing that can be learned from the present "Child Pornography in Second Life" debacle is that if one needs LL to react and possibly take action regarding an in-world problem is to drag a third-party to the table, such as the media. (It would be particularly funny if the journalist that broke the child pornography story used a free "open registration" account.)

That should be a lesson well-learned. Linden Labs cares about the Bottom Line. Abuse reports do not affect the Bottom Line. Abuse reports do not affect the Bottom Line. Publicity affects the Bottom Line.

Interesting. Most of what I saw in the German documentary was just avatar pixel-banging - costume roleplay, SL style. Rather sick, considering the apparent age of the child avatars, but up until now allowed by LL as long as the actual Players were consenting adults, and the activity was neither advertized or promoted. Now, I will admit that the place most of that was happening in the documentary certainly seemed to be a whorehouse dedicated to that kink, so it surely was "being promoted", and not a couple doing something privately to play out a fantasy. I will also say that certainly the REAL photographic images that they indicated were being transmitted via SL are a bannable offense.

If it was indicated that the one couple that got banned was behind the transfer of such real photos via SL, then yes, they should be banned, and rightly so. I would have no problem with that at all. However, the official SL statements so far indicated that the German journalists did not and will not reveal to Linden Lab the location of the real images in SL. So... what was the grounds for the ban again? Heresay? That has me worried...

I would have no trouble accepting a ban and legal action against ANYONE caught passing real photos of real kids that depicted that sort of activity.

I would also think it appropriate that a public "brothel' such as the one shown, that clearly was dedicated to child porn RP, is crossing the line and should get shut down.

But let's not paint with too broad a brush. There are valid reasons for child/cub avatars as well. Reasons that have nothing at all to do with sex. Like a couple in SL wanting to show that their dedicated pairing produced offspring, that they can love together as parents. There is nothing sick or twisted about a couple wanting to have and raise kids in SL. And it would be a pretty strange world indeed if all the sex in SL never caused a single birth.

There are many threads onthis subject, but I will post here because the Topic seems most on point.

LL simply can not tolerate any child porn in SL whatsoever. It looked like RObin Linden got totally blindsided in that video and I felt bad for her..very bad. She appears to be a nuce, responsible and competent woman. I am glad LL is doing something about this and doing it quickly. Is their response 100% perfect? Probably not, but I really don't ahve any better ideas. I am sure many of you do. I have concerns about theSSN thing which I have already expressed eleswhere.

I see it like this: When your house is in danger of catching fire, you tend to concentrate on that rather than say...a much needed and necessary kitchen remodel.

They are basically doing the right thing onthis and I support them. Robin Linden's post in another thread was very helpful inincreasing my own personal comfort level on what is going on with the Age Verification. Good communication ALWAYS helps!!

Anyway, I suspect I may lose some popularity here, but my opinion is my opinion. I support LL on this. I still have some problems with implementation but I am withy them. Hopefully any implementation probs will be worked out.

Good job Lindens.

agreed it was a bad move to close live help as it was the only real way anyone managed
to get in world support, closing it just makes LL look like they dont care about or dont want
to provide support.

i dont think its fair that non paid and paid users should be treated seperately as far as support goes, i think everyone on the main grid should have access to the same level of help when needed, i spend a lot of my time heelping newbies out when i can, not quite sure why as most dont even say thank you sometimes lol.

I'm in complete agreement, I support the end but question the means.

They are scrambling, no doubt. but that is better than inaction. Since I guess it's safe to say this type of behavior is now Verboten in SL, all residents can be considered forewarned. Perhaps it might be a good idea for the Providers to sit down and decide what else may be unacceptable and communicate that to us as well.

Never mind the end of LIVE HELP, this stuff has been occuring for over a year now! Even With Live Help nothing changed a year ago. Get off the ego tripping here about poiting the finger at LLABS and end of LH. That vedio footage was graphic, its just as bad as seeing it first hand a year ago. Lets hope LLABS learns to keep more control over these issues, unlike their lack of control from a year ago.

Rape Play might be one to include since it also would draw Media attention.

Violence might need discussion - but since its a staple of video games the Media might not consider it Sensational.

But what ever becomes Verboten (lol Brenda good choice of words) they owe it to peopel to say "this is what we have to ban fromt he game"

Instead of another notecard campaign.

It's called "ambush journalism."

Yes, I feel terrible for Robin. It's terrible when a vice-president and de facto Number Two at an entertainment company gets caught in the crosshairs of a television story and is unable to say something along the lines of, "Over a year ago we were tempted by the idea of bulking up our population numbers with open, non-verified registrations but decided against it so we could minimize any future problems regarding children on the main grid and child pornographers using our software and servers as a file sharing system."

She was powerless... just powerless... to do anything.

But once you do identify the unacceptable behavior, and offcially ban it grid wide, how do you police it? In public areas it's easy, any resident can send an AR.

I wonder if some kind german person could possible translate what is being said in this docu and may post it or make it available on a notecard?

I dont think you do.

You just say its not allowed

Spam everyone when they log on that this game is for those 18+ , that these activities are not allowed, etc.

Let people AR abusive activities -

Then just say you did all you can do.

Of course if you define some Privacy then you can claim people were breaking these rules in Private - how were you supposed to know what is going on?

Many games make you agree to the EULA/TOS at EVERY log on.

Maybe Second Life Should do that as well.

GAWD, Brenda..as usual we agree...scary isn''t it? Yes, they're scrambling and mistakes are going to be made, not because LL is venal or stupid but because they are HUMAN beings reacting to an emergency. I am going to stay out of their way and support their efforts as much as my own standards, morals and ethics will allow.

I have criticized LL in thepast and I'm pretty sure I will be critical in the future, but I support them on this. Persoanlly, I don't care if they SHUT down the grid for a month or longer if it gets rid of child porn...period.

NOTE: no one has said anything about shutting the grid down. It was an example that sprang from my own fertile mind.

So how to they fund SL for you to enjoy if they don't take care of business? I don't understand how you think the money works. I'm not sure if you are a biz owner or not but would you listen to your customers if they were not happy? And would you listen to the ones that complained a lot but spent little or those that bought a lot of your products and appreciated them?

I agree, someone else said that SL is business first, customer second but without the customer there is no business.

Adults roleplaying serious kink v.s Adults showing kiddie porn slideshows on their free tv viewer. Once youve got that RL kid plastered up there on the screen you've gone over the line. You've broke the law across the globe. Done deal with that, end of story. You track em down, assess the threat, and deal with them. However... adults roleplaying whatever perverted kink that floats their boat, behind closed doors with a warning sign out front? Hmmm. Maybe the german 'thought' police, with their psychoanalysis team believes that everyone who fantasizes about something goes out and performs the deed in RL. Sure, there are whackjobs out there. Same people who get obsessed with certain movies and go out and do something stupid. But to paint roleplayers with the same brush as the streetcorner perv? Know the difference between puppet life and real life. This is where we explore our creative sides, this is where we explore our nice sides, this is where we explore our dark, evil, secret side. You explore it here and nobody gets hurt.

At the end of the day, I feel REALLY bad for the Lindens who have to face the media on this. I feel really bad for the Lindens who had a dream of making a new world to explore and create, and who are watching it be destroyed by a very few pedophiles and an alarmist media. Beware what you wish for, fellow citizens.

No need to shut down. that would be punishing the many for the deeds of the few. The behavior has been declared unacceptable, the offenders in this case were identified and banned. Anyone engaging in this does so at their own risk.

So, if I play a child with no interest in the darker side of that, it's still "icky"? What about those that play old ladies or men, or men playing girls and vice versa? Where does the "ick" factor not play in?

the main grid is supposed to be for Adults only
the teen grid is for teens / kids





no matter what LL do they will not stop child sex / kiddie sex in SL ( whatever you want to call it ), just the fact that there are kiddie avatars in close proximity to Adult content causses concenrs and issues and seeing as SL is primarily an Adult playground, so you just playing a child avatar means nothing as no one knows your intentions however honourable they maybe.

Yeah, I always found child AVs a bit creepy and tried to stay away from them at all costs...even BEFORE I heard about ageplay. Anyone that does that kinda worries me...regardless of what their intentions are.