After reading TOS today

All i have to say is I'm guessing since WE are held responcable for what we create then i guess we will be seeing a lot more RL logo's on stuff now. LL doesn't care. Mcdonnald's, Nike, Chevy, Coke, Budwieser, and possibly even Microsoft logos by people who aren't even involved in those companies. It's up to those companies to sue them. And suing is pretty much impossible since our accounts don't really have to display any of our RL information. ALl they need is a fake email and a fake name.

What was your question? I'm not trying to be funny, I really want to know so I, as a Resident, would love to answer.

heh

i knew LL was gonna do this. remove themselves from any and all resposibility regarding THIER service.

kudos LL for showin your true colors once again, and showin exactly what a bunch of craven cowards you truly are. yes strife i know this is closed for tellin it like it is.

i think i will hold off on goin premium, its not worth it anymore.

Haha this could get like the biannual deviantART TOS uproars.

They're obviously doing it to cover their own ass if somebody does something completely stupid and warrants a good sueing. It's a completely fine idea. Unfortunately -certain- people tend to link this type of thing to 'OMG they don't CARE about us! Bastards!' ... umm would you rather LL gets sued and goes under? Just for the principle of the thing?

Well i do have A question... What are the chances of LL ever opening a general section of the forums again? Cuz this totally blows that we cant voice our opinions unless we do it elsewhere where only oldbies can read it as newbies dont know about those other sites. Go ahead and lock it and give me a warning. Like LL is really gona do something about it. I don't really care anymore. >.>

Oh, I doubt that Yiffy. LL is all "hands off" and "not our responsibility" until someone starts messing with a corporate logo, then they come down on your ass like a hammer.

It's not cowardice - it's a matter of ownership. LL cannot defend the trademarks of other companies because first of all, one must to be the injured party in order to launch such a suit or one has no legal basis for filing, and second, because it is legally required of trademark holders that they defend their own trademarks, or they lose their rights to have them.

Many people believe that whatever they think is right is the law, merely because they're indignant whether that indignation has any basis in reality or not. Withhold your monies if you wish - fortunately, Linden Labs is far from being dependent on those citizens who make public statements without first comprehending the discussion at hand.

Thats just what i'm getting at. How can you enforce copyright laws against a throwaway account? Theirs now way. :/

LL gets a court order to hand over all relevant information they have on an account, if it's an unverified the only valueable bit there is the IP address and login times.
Next the ISP gets a court order to hand over the information on the customer using said address at the given time and you have the information on the person you want to sue.

I think its more for LLs to absolve themselves of any action as and when they chose to change things or rethink the rules on the fly, or if the s**t hits the fan again, even copybot made a couple UK TV news channels, so they need to be watertight after this recent fiasco, and all the valid points it raised and also to send a reminder to the community that they are in charge not us! But thats just my POV as i see things now. If i see LLs changing then im sure my POV will to

LLs, ultimately hold the final say in anything they chose to do, they can stop everything and owe nobody anything as its their platform and they make the rules. We will wake up one day and log in to find LLs have taken the ability to cash out lindens away and we will not be able to say a thing about it, i know that sounds far fetched but always possible.

We as paying players,value creators, content creators, corporates etc. have to accept that and either agree to the terms, or not play, as they, LLs are a for profits company and are slowly proving they do not care as much anymore for the lifeblood of the community as time moves on, as they have their sights set on bigger targets, World Domination imho and with totally unverified account creation atm why should they care as they did, as they now get a new supply of folks everyday and change goes on ad infinitum or until they go bust or sell out to a good offer

We must remember we are not in a secure enviroment atall here in any way and if LLs wanted to stop stipends, raise prices etc kick us off the game, they can at a whim and without recourse as they own us and whatever we store on their servers, whatever we believe, and i think this one fact we ALL tend to forget, i know i do sometimes

Just my 2L$s worth

Copyright infringment for no profit: You ban the account responsible. they lose their inventory and identity, destroy the offending uploads so they can't be used by others... if the "infringer" returns as another alt, they have to upload the assets again to continue, which requires L$.

Copyright infringement for profit: You follow the money. Unverified's can't withdraw revenue, and would have to transfer it, likely to an alt of their own that can.

You cannot bag LL for this.
As they (LL) always say, over and over, they want the residents to run the world. It's not that LL DONT want to run it, they want SL to evolve into a world where the residents are in charge of their own destiny.

Once this system is up and running then open sourced, LL will become like a hosting provider, maintaining the hardware and the bolts that hold it all together. Maybe have your own sim on your own pc, but it is connected to the rest via LL Hosting.

During all of this comes the enevitable Yiffy has brought up.
The Bigger Copyright issues will hit the fan sometime. Hey, anybody with "R us" in their name will not survive with that name. The suits will come 'a' knockin. If they are unverified, they WILL be traced to the best that huge money will provide. Need I go on about that stuff? RL law is effective here too, mostly. It's just common sense.

Anyways, wouldn't it be very usefull to find your favourite RL store in SL, wander down the aisle, pickup that can of beans, read the ingredients, check the lable (from all angles) and click buy. That's the first thing that came my to mind when I noticed SL.
But hey, now another company making millions (maybe billions) of deliveries world wide is required now. Maybe they (LL) want to do that.

And an unverified account can't put up something permanent, can they? Rent yes, own no.



[ENOUGH KK. sig lines 1&2]

I think I'll agree with Yiffy. I'm just waiting (hoping) for LL to actually care again. Either that or for IBM to finish thier virtual world. Sad really. I like SL. Had a lot of potential.

~Jessy

When i first joined SL 2 years ago (v1.5) it was a lot more secure then it is now... This was before accounts became free, or unverified. Back when i saw LL as a shining beacon to all devs. Now i no longer feal this way. The only Lindens i will make a exception and stick up for are those who i've grown to know and see they arent the "give me money and F off" type. If i could name names on the forums i would definatly mention them here.

If it's up to us to deal with copyright problems. how are we suposed to file the lawsuit if the suspect is a unverified account that used complete gibirish as info? We don't have access to their IP address, and LL definatly wont give it out as a safety violation (and it can be a Fake Proxy IP). They already mentioned WE are responsable for it and they wont get involved. So how is this suposed to work? The way i look at it, if i wished to i could go to the welcome area using a throwaway account and upload a huge Isuzu logo, make it into a flag, plant it right next to Philip as hes away, then log out, and delete the account.

I'm not a lawyer, or remotely qualified to give legal advice .
Presumably you file a copyright/IP/trademark infringement claim against an unknown party, along with the proof you do have that the infringement actually occurred. Once that part of your claim is deemed enough to proceed, you would petition the court to order LL to hand over any records it has that are relevant.

Noone supplies download sites with RL information and that doesn't stop the RIAA/MPAA from dragging a selected few to court regardless.

Also, you need to get your ducks in a row quickly, because LL doesn't keep transaction logs more than a few days (they couldn't possibly extend this because of the technical resources it would take). If you don't act certainly within a day or so of the detected infringement, there would simply be no records for LL to hand over.

The probability of being able to get a court order on extremely short notice based on less than $50 worth of direct liability is so low as to be almost beyond comprehension. The probability of anyone finding it worthwhile to put themselves into debt for the next several years to pursue an infringer in this manner is also stupifyingly low. I would venture to guess that the only people who would be able to launch such an effort would be so well monied that they would never reach a level of conscious awareness that fiscal damage had occurred.

If it were truly that reasonable or practical to launch a law suit over something that happened in a virtual world over a fistful of pennies, this would have been attempted over and over. The truth is that it's a tempest in a teapot - just too tiny to even try to implement, and the ones making the most noise about it also happen to be the ones least capable of carrying out their threats of legal action.

At which point the owner of account which received and withdrew the money claims it was payment for whatever service rendered, or even a gift from person in control of account responsible for violation. Neither of these options being violation of TOS. As long as they aren't stupid enough to login both characters from the same IP, good luck proving the situation being otherwise, and these two actually the same person. o.O

This is a bit off topic but I, like many others, did not bother to read the new TOS.


This was posted in linden answers:

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And I must say- that IS concerning. How do you folks feel about this?

I dont mind LL asking me for general information- I`ll give it. But to be "tracked" and my PERSONAL conversations heard by LL is a bit unnerving.

Its not like theres some magic filter that will filter out my "OK you can hear this" convo, from me "I wish for no one but <this person> to hear this" convo. Which means, if you`re being tracked- they will hear everything. Things they dont need to be hearing. Just because they wont be giving out personal information to third parties, does not mean THEY need to be hearing/knowing our personal information!


Not to mention many lindens were once players with us in the game, and still do have ALT accounts.

I guess I have to keep my personal conversations out of world from now one.


Oh boy!

A year or so ago one of my friends friends got banned for admiting to my friend in a IM that he was 17. This was a nice kid too. My friend did not tattle on him, LL was listening in on private IMs and cought it. Not that i want to stick up for a minor but i believe we do need encription. Hey you guys at LibSL! Make it so. Then you could earn back my trust.

Dang......... Well I definitely wouldnt doubt they were "spying" back then.


I`ll just take my personal conversations into Yahoo Chat from now on.

They always could. There is no real privacy in SL. However I doubt that the 50 or so people working at SL are listening in on our conversations, I would rather blow my own brains out, lol.

Linden Lab reserves all rights to vigorously pursue legal action against all persons who misrepresent personal information or are otherwise untruthful about their identity, and to suspend or cancel Accounts registered with inaccurate or incomplete information.

So does this mean that LL could send each of it's users an email, and cancel the accounts linked to emails who don't click some sort of validation link? Or at the very least those who's emails are bounced back, indicating that no such email address exists?

That'd be good news for Anshe Chung, SLExchange, and IGE!

It's good to be back after nearly "dying" in the Great September Password Fiasco to see the same flame wars still going on! Gives me a lovely cozy feeling it does.

Wellll yeah I knew they always could, but I dont know... I guess it just "hit home" this time.

But its good, I now know to make sure to take personal convos OUT of SL









And to the person who said we may wake up and find we can not cash lindens anymore- I know, im waiting for that day to come. But we could probably still use 3rd party things to do it and make money I dunno