As a content creator, why do you not do custom work?

Yes. I've learned the hard way over the years never to begin until it's all legal. Even when I'm doing work for friends, there's always a contract. The only exception is my mom (and even that's come back to bite me a few times).




Yes and no. If I'm trying to earn their business, then it's a sales pitch, and I can't charge for that time. The pitch is part of the cost of doing business, for any sale, which is one of the reasons consultant rates are higher than employee wages. But if it's after I've already gotten the job, and we're developing new ideas or hammering out details on existing ones, then yes, absolutely, I bill for that time.

There are gray areas, though. If I were ever to feel a potential client were not acting in good faith, but just stringing me along to get free consultation, then I would eventually have to draw a line in the sand, and say we've gone as far as we can go, off the clock. But that's never happened. I do stay on guard for it, though.




Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. It depends on the client and the project.




I've learned, again the hard way, that padding time frames is very important. You never know when you might get slowed down for what reason. For enough padding, I usually take my time estimate, factor in what else is going on, and double it to come up with the deadline. If something's going to take 40 hours, for example, and I have no other work at the moment, I'll promise delivery in 2 weeks. If I have two other projects going at the same time, though, so I can only spend a third of my time on each one, that 40-hour project will be promised for six weeks.

I've also learned to use "on or about" instead of "on" for dates. That way if I run into any last minute delays, I'm not in breach. So the customer can't complain if something due on, say, the 21st actually isn't fully finished until the 22nd.

More significant delays do happen from time to time, of course. How it's handled depends on whose fault it is.

If it's my fault, the client typically can withhold payment, until I delivered as promised. I've never had anyone need to do that, though, because if I'm delayed, I simply won't be sending out invoices until I'm back on track.

If a delay is my fault, I'll also usually offer the customer a discount. I don't wait for them to get upset about it. I offer it straight up. My goal is always to exceed their expectations. That's what keeps them coming back.

If it's the client's fault, it's a different story. In most cases, I'll do what I can to steer them back on track, while keeping them happy. If that means I need to wait an extra week or two to get paid, it's not the end of the world.

If they cause me enough of a headache, I will charge extra. I once had a client send me the wrong blueprints once for a building I was supposed to replicate. We didn't discover it was wrong until I'd already done 2 weeks of work. Apparently the guy I'd been talking to at the company had been given the wrong thing by some other department, and he didn't know it was wrong either. I did charge for the extra 2 weeks on that one.

If a client's interference were to get bad enough, like if they were preventing me from doing the job they agreed I would do, by changing their mind every other minute about what they want, or by not paying their tier so I can't access their island for a month, or something ridiculous like that, it's stipulated in the contract that I can send them a notice of breach, in which case they'd be required to pay me for the time I've put in so far, and we'd optionally renegotiate for the remainder of the work. I've never had to do that, though. As long as the right relationship is established from the beginning, most people will act in accordance with what they feel is expected is of them.


If it's no one's fault, like if there's an earthquake, flood, hurricane, alien invasion, etc., then we obviously play it by ear. Reasonable people can make appropriate decisions at times like that.

It's also in the contract that if I'm sick or injured, related delays do not constitute a breach on my part.




I send invoices per the terms of the contract. Whatever we work out in advance is what we stick with, barring a breach, of course.

Luckily I've never had anyone not pay, so I haven't had to worry about debt chasing. My invoices state that I charge interest on all late payments.

The closest I ever came to chasing anyone was actually just recently. My invoices all say "Please remit payment within 10 days" on them. This particular client read that and responded, "We always pay out net-30," (that means 30 days, for anyone who's not up on their billing lingo) in sort of a snotty "rules are rules and we don't break them" kind of tone. Right, like it's physically impossible to have someone over there sign a check on day 10 instead of day 20 or something, gotcha. But I didn't feel like arguing, so I said OK. I realized later that should have argued at least a little, if for no other reason than just to show I wasn't a pushover. It turned out I was right.

Come day 29, there was no check in my mailbox, just like I figured would happen. So I E-mailed them a friendly reminder that I would be charging them interest starting in 2 days. 2 days later, a FedEx overnight envelope arrived with my check in it. Wow, $10 for overnight delivery, to avoid paying maybe a $1.50 in interest for the first month. I guess they were embarrassed.




Yes.




Just lil' ol' me. I do have a lawyer and an accountant, but I don't involve them unless absolutely necessary. They're expensive.

I got into doing custom shapes sort of accidentally about 2 years ago and I wound up closing my shop and doing exclusively custom work.

Why? because the challenge was more fun for me. People would ask my to do a celebrity or they'd give a photo of someone (maybe it was them, who knows, I never asked) and I'd locate the skin and hair that best suited the RL person, then I'd create the shape. I love doing it...I don't see it as 'work' in the traditional sense. It's a form of art to me and to be paid anything at all to do it is really a compliment as far as I'm concerned.

Now that I do skins as well.....I haven't really put a lot of energy into promoting my shop.....but again, oddly enough, I've been asked to do custom skins. Which, again, I find the challenge to be fun. I like having a project to focus on and often I will use a celebrity or well known character as a model for a skin series. I just enjoy it, pure and simple.

What I have found to be the most frustrating (and I think this is more true of complicted builds then it is maybe with shapes & skins, tho it's still true)....is the folks who ask.....are asking for custom because they cannot 'do it themselves' which usually means a lack of knowledge/understanding of what it takes. So....often their expectations are unrealistic and it can be very difficult to explain why what they want isn't going to happen. I feel bad when I have to disappoint someone because they have unrealistic expectations.....but SL has it's limits, and the more you learn, the more you realize this. I figure, ultimately those folks will 'get it' and maybe they'll look back and feel bad about being a pain in the ass.

What do I charge? I don't.....I've made more L's by telling people to pay me what they want based on how happy they are with my work. I do this with my photography....and I do it with any custom shapes/skins now too. I find that people are so thrilled at the idea that it wont cost them their first born.....that they wind up paying more just out of genuine appreciation for the work. And to me....that's a much more rewarding outcome then demanding a certain amount for my time...and having people decline or whine about the cost.

I have done custom bridesmaid gowns on two separate occasions. While it was fun, and the customers were very happy with them, along with the acceptance of the job came a deadline. Deadlines make it a job, not fun Instead of being able to take my time and let things develop themselves as I would normally, I felt pressure to have the job be complete. With my own things, if something isn't working out just right, I can shelve it for a bit and work on something else...but when there is a deadline, I don't have that luxury.

I am a hobbyist at heart I suppose

I do custom stuff on occasion - some of my best selling skyboxes have been custom requests originally. I'll do quick and easy modifications to existing products for free and for a full custom build I charge what I would if it were in the store. I don't do exclusives, if I can't resell it I don't build it.

With the custom work I do a mock up of the build first to get size and basic layout/shape. Once the customer and I agree on those things, it usually is ok to move forward. Since it takes me (on average) four to six weeks to finish a complex build, I don't usually have a problem with customers being backseat builders. They just have to be patient and I tell them right up front that I am not a fast builder. The longer build time is if I need a custom texture set for the build - if I can use existing textures it's about half the time to build.

@ Chosen again.

Thanks for sharing all that excellent information. I forgot to ask if you had any particular strategy for risk management? One of the things that really worries me about making a RL living within SL is the risk of relying on this particular platform and the eccentric policies of LL.

I've mostly stopped doing custom work. Partially because of a few experiences like Desmond's and perhaps partially because I will make more in the end on a product that I can sell again and again for a year or so until it becomes the proverbial yesterday's news.

But really, I could just charge more and that would do much to solve both issues. At the end of the day, the main attraction about Second Life versus Real Life design work is the fact that I can create my own vision here. Actualizing others' visions just doesn't have the same draw for me.

I'm a hobbyist, and willing to work for hobby rates, because I know I'm not up to the standards of pros like Chosen.

I *do* take on custom work, building houses and doing custom terraforming and landscaping.

My policy is: discuss the client's desires and vision up front. Name a price. If the client agrees, I build it.

I'll make MINOR revisions...for example, if the client spots a bad seam, or a misapplied texture. But in general, if the client isn't happy, we stop right there. No payment, no product delivery...and no endless change cycles.

Also, if it's appropriate, I'll make a mass-market version of the item, and offer it for resale. Unless the client insists up front on an exclusive.

My strength is scripting, and everyone thinks they can script. I'm not sure how I'd sell scripting as it's not visual, and it's hard enough to sell things that are visual.

This. People pretty much aren't willing to pay for the long hours of work that go into things in SL. Good things I should say. I suppose if I slapped shoddy work together, I could do it quickly and cheaply.

I'm in SL for fun. If it's not fun, I don't do it. If your custom scripting sounds interesting, and I have a spare half hour, I'll do it for free. Otherwise, I don't even bother asking for a minimal contracting rate because I know nobody in SL is going to pay even $40/hr for programming.

[Edit: though Chosen Few's comments make me wonder if I might not be talking myself out of an opportunity]

I know what i am NOT good at - and scripting heads the list! I just paid for scripting work because I know I cannot do it rightly. To get it done, done right, and done elegantly- that is art!

So far, all the things I make are of very little value. So, I sell them at impulse-ish prices and I never see anyone coming back asking for more. (^_^)y

Absolutely ^^this^^
For me, that pressure really destroys my motivation to do any kind of custom work, and yes.. the creativity goes out the window as well. I'm at my best when I'm not stressing about the stuff and just having fun making whatever it is i'm working on.
It really depends on what it is whether or not I'll accept a custom job. I stay away from doing custom items that people would take as personal, or want extremely personalized. That's a recipe for a bad headache (they're never happy, even if it's perfect! it just doesn't match perfectly that little image in their head) and I flat out say absolutely not. Other items that are simple or fun to make, I'll often do custom ones for free.. because it's fun. I have a ton of full perm poses and attachment anims floating the grid as freebies... because they were fun. I've been debating on whether or not to sell a new vehicle I've made, or just give it away.. because it was fun.

I would pay. I have paid $20/hr usd, and would pay $40/hr.

I will pay whatever the price the creator wants for the custom work i require within Real World price limitations.

I will even tell a creator that their price is too low and offer then a real world equivalent for their work - which surprisingly enough has been declined! Some people are just really happy to create and not in it for the money and that is groovy!

The majority have unrealistic expectations, not just on prices, but also on the time it takes to make things, some forget they even asked for the item and you call them after spending 2 weeks making it, at which point they decide they dont want it, or just ignore your IMs/notes.

Many also dont realise the limitations of what is possible in SL and seem to have the mentality that because the thing exists in their mind, if must be possible for you to make, it must cost 5$, be exclusive and must be done by "this afternoon" when if reality its like a months work, and if you cannot fulfill all the above preconceptions you must suck.

You can sell scripts to ME. That stuff makes my head hurt, but every once in a while, I want something I build to DO something. Then I hire a scripter to make it happen.

Endless thanks to Qie Niangao, for his generous help with my scripting problems.

I think that was his rudest statement in the whole conversation. Totally draining someone, impeding and slowing down progress creating more work in the meantime, and complaining how it inconvenienced *him.*

Lol.

Having done a few animations and knowing the amount of time it takes to do just something very simple and have it look even remotely acceptable, my hats off to your animations. I know I could never sell the things I do as they do not come close to the quality of work that you and others are capable of. But what I do make is personalized for only the person I share them with. So in that aspect, they have value to me as they were made for someone special. And when asked and time permits, I do try simple things for free.

I have taken a variety of classes on scripting, one from a scripter who makes AMAZING Japanese animated furnishings. I know just enough about scripts to be able to tinker with an existing script and change the colors on a title, or something extremely limited, but that's it.

This is the major reason I have not attempted anything more complicated than what I sell. I know two people who teamed up - one was a builder and the other an amazing scripter. The scripter gets a percentage of the builder's sales. They have formed a decent business this way and are now also great friends.

I do a bit of custom stuff if I fancy it or the ave is a regular customer.I don,t charge much more than my main stuff.

I saw a program on the box the other night about workers in Indonesia.Peeling prawns for 35pence(GBS) per hour.Oopps!! Maybe they should join SL.

I offer custom texturing on any items I sell. For example, if a customer likes my ceiling fans but wants a different texture/color than the ones currently in my shoppe, I will most happily offer that. My only charge would be if I needed to upload a texture at the standard $10L/per just to cover that upload charge.

The most expensive product I sell currently are my ceiling fans for $100L, but only because I recently made them copiable. The rest of my product line is in the $25-$50L range.

At first I didn't think there would be value on custom texturing, because anyone can do that if the product is mod like mine are, right? Apparently not. I've learned there are people in SL who have no interest whatsoever in building and any associated skills. I have one friend who has been in SL for 5 years and honestly can barely rez a box.

My 1-Touch/1-Prim drapes are my best selling item. I first only offered them in beige (the base color of the texture) because they are tintable and people could make them any color they wanted. Then, I added a Jade Green mainly just to show the "tintability". They began selling instantly. I added a few more basic colors. Now I have about 8 or 10 colors that all I did was take the beige drapes, and except for 2 of them that I did go into the RGB shades, just clicked one of the color boxes. But since I began offering more colors, I've sold TONS more.

My question is, how do I get the word out that I will do custom texturing? I state that in my XStreet ads, I state that in the note card included with all my products, but I realize many people don't even look at those. (Lightbulb just went on...lol....put it in my picks). I would like to make a nice-looking sign to say that in my store as well.

First, I must say that as always, Chosen's posts are pearls of wisdom, and well worth reading and heeding. Some fantastic advice there.

I find myself at the cusp between "Hobbiest" and "Pro", much of the time. And I can vouch for the fact that it is hard, at first, to muster the chutzpah to state a realistic price and hold to your guns on that quote. I think a lot of the success or failure of that relies on a realistic assessment of your skills versus what is available out there. Most people can cook an egg. A decent cook can make an omlette. A really good cook can make a quiche or something more exotic. And a true chef can make even ordinary scrambled eggs something to marvel over. If you know your skills are top notch, and have the past work history to prove it, you can certainly get higher prices than you might believe possible. I'm still trying to push my bids up into that range.

It also will depend a lot though on "how hungry you are". If you have a steady stream of requests and bids coming in, then it's a no-brainer to accept the ones you know you can get paid well for, and allow the hobbiest creators to take the ones you pass on. You can even get a stronger reputation by passing on the simpler stuff to a competent but lower-priced individual. But what if you're sitting on your hands with no work in sight? Myself, I tend to fill the dead spaces, when they happen, with projects I assign myself, to improve my skills and maybe make new products to sell, or at least to incorporate into my custom builds. But if someone who clearly isn't in a position to pay big ticket prices comes along with a project that will help pay my land costs next month, I'm likely to take it, even if I have to bid lower.

When I was designing and selling clothing, I tried doing custom work occasionally. It usually wasn't worth the time and effort. Any "commodity item" that many, many people already make well seems to be a poor choice for custom work. If they can pay "off the rack prices" for something pretty close to what they want to commission, they are unlikely to be willing to pay what it is worth for your time and effort. So I stopped doing custom clothes, unless it was an idea I really thought would sell well, and I would have the rights to sell a variant of the custom project.

For textures, which I design and sell today, I primarily make what I am inspired by my oen needs to make - things that I, as a builder, think othr builders would find useful. When I do consider custom commissions, I prefer to take custom jobs that have resale value later. For example, if someone wanted a particular style of doors, windows, and matching shutters, and no one else made anything similar, I might agree to make it for virtually the normal off-the-shelf rate, provided I could turn around and sell those texture bundles to other customers. I get a new product to add to my line, that has strong resale potential, and they get exactly the texture they needed. We both win. But if the texture would ONLY be usable for that one client, it is much harder to get what your time is worth. If someone wanted a bunch of signs for their club, with the club logo prominently part of the design? Well, no one but that club owner could ever use that texture. So I would have to charge what my hourly rate is worth. And that quote is likely to cause most clients to look elsewhere for their one-off texture.

For building work, I like doing customs of stuff that simply can not be gotten off the shelf, anywhere. Like a University campus that looks just like the real buildings, or a Corporate office that looks just like their office in New York, or an authentically detailed Chinese palace. The customers that want that sort of work are usually quite willing to pay what my time is worth.

Likewise, if someone wants a club that exactly matches their dream design, and that they have never seen offered as a pre-fab, that can be a worthwhile one-shot build, if bid properly.

But I would not be likely to try to build a custom home for someone, unless I thought the design would make a really great prefab home, and I had full rights to resell copies. As with the texture sales, the resellability is key. An exact replica of the Player's RL 35 year old Ranch-style home in East Podunk might be a fascinating and detailed build, but is unlikely to appeal to anyone else.

I know the scripting market isn't what most scripters would like, but I can say without a doubt that you ARE talking yourself out of some golden opportunities....

yes, tons of basic functionality can be found or cobbled together, and even work, no matter how ugly or lag inducing it might be... but just like Chosen, what you bring is finesse, quality, and proper design (and if you're smart about it, lots of customer support). 40$/hr is generally as high as I'll go, but I tend to work slowly (lots of planning the portability and upgradeability) and if *I* can charge that, I have no doubts someone as prolific as yourself could charge a similar or even higher wage, especially for a unified system, or large scale project.

...a word about my stories (full disclosure)...

Obviously I had to paraphrase a bit, because I don't save chatlogs from 2005. Names are left out to protect the innocent (and the guilty, and by virtue of the service terms, to protect me too).

At the same time, I did two custom chair retexturings for... I want to say $L 150 each or something like that for other people. They were was supposed to be just retexturings; maybe 20 minutes of fuss, but the 'photoshop' nightmare I described actually came from one of those experiences. The story is actually a few experiences folded into one, to get the feel of the moment across but not write a complex novella in a forum post. I absolutely did cease doing customs after that week, having been thoroughly fed up with them. My friend in IM was actually a little more blunt in her appraisal of the overall situation, too

The reason I'm explaining all this, is that if I stray from exact facts, it is pretty much my responsibility to ensure that people know when that is going on. Hopefully most understand that when Des tells a tale in such form, it's a good metaphor of experience but *not* a chat log. If I am writing like *this* (points to this particular post that you are reading now) then it is a far more serious tone and I won't use any literary licence at all.

That little tidbit about staying up too late to watch me happened pretty much as written, as best as I can paraphrase across nearly four years. One doesn't forget little zingers like that too quickly

Chosen, your posts are pearls that everyone, SL and RL should read.

It reminded me of a story that my dad told me many years ago, one that has stuck with me whenever I have to deal with a client... well, a customer. I had enough of clients many years ago and stopped accepting them. I only have customers now. The difference? I can tell a customer "I'm sorry. I'm not doing that. Please take your money and go." *grin*

Anyway, the old man was in advertising and had selected three pictures to pitch to a client for an ad. Of course, being no dummy, he chose the one he thought was best, one that was perfect, save for a Canadian warship in the background, rendering it unusable, and one that was just awful.
This was back when EVERYTHING in an agency was done by hand. No computers. Shit. Did I just date myself?

The client loved option two, but the warship ruined it. So they asked "Can't you just airbrush it out?"

The response? (And this is the bit that always stuck with me...)

"Certainly. We can do that and it will look great. But it will cost you an EXORBITANT amount of money."

Not sure why, but I thought you'd enjoy that. I've certainly used it many times over the years.
Feel free to make it your own! *grin*