Lock this too, Cyna..... it informs residents, after all

My response to the locked thread on landbarons /invalid_link.html

"That LL permits such an easily exploited system to persist is criminal. This is a systematic problem and only the creator of that system is properly equipped to address it.

Blame the victims if you like, but in the long run people who are ripped off so blatently and totally and with the tacit approval of LL will have little reason not to broadcast their experiences to others. It's only a matter of time before a major news outlet gets ahold of this story. A shame LL will wait until such pressure before taking action themselves."

That thread was perfectly appropriate for this forum. People were stolen from by a flawed system that LL permits. Go ahead and silence us all you want, it won't change reality and it won't engender good feelings for either LL or the "moderators" of these forums.

In before the "why was my thread locked" lock

i agree that land barens suck BUT she put the price in she had to click thru screens she had to agree before it went up for sale

that would be like putting up a pair of jeans for sale at a yard sale for 1.00 tag on it and the customer standing there buys it and then you scream and yell it should have been for 10.00 but the pen didnt work right and now you wanna sue the pen company or sue the city for allowing it to happen in your yard but in their city

someone stated that gina is a long time land trader or however it was phrased if that is the case then she should have known better and is not like most people that come to the forums

There were valid reasons for locking that thread, which were listed in the mod's post.

IBTL!

The thread was locked for the abusive comments and naming of names.

Which was prob'ly closed because it named names in the subject. And yes, this one'll prob'ly be too, 'cuz it's talkin' about a closed thread.

Mari

Sweet,

that thread was closed (as has been mentioned here) because somewas was named in a negative light and that's not allowed according to the rules of these forums. it was also a personal dispute, which is also not allowed. i was simply doing as i'm supposed to do as a ResMod.

technically speaking, threads started to say "why was this other thread closed" are closed due to their nature; however, you are also bringing up the point of "what can be done about unfair land purchasing practices?", which is not against "the rules".. per se.

this topic can be a constructive one, where nobody is named/bashed/etc., and i hope that it can be just that. i have no agenda to silence anyone's opinion or observations.. as a matter of fact, i think they're vital to the success of SL.

that being said, i will still have to submit this thread to Linden Review for an official word on whether this thread should remain open or not. ResMods are not Lindens and when something is in the grey, i would rather refer to an official stance.

Admirable

Thanks, Cybin. Ok, now that someone is noticing, let's run through all the very good suggestions that have been made in the gazillion threads on this subject yet once again. Hey! It might just get through!

Who wants to start?

The absolute cheek of you to discuss Land baron in a negative way.

*locks*

if you wish to seriously discuss this subject, prevent it from running off-topic and engage in constructive discussion.

(don't get me wrong.. i enjoy the humor as much as the next person, but at the same time i have to be wary of what my job here entails)

also, let's not refer to anyone as Land Baron's, as i think this pigeon-holes the problems that we face with land purchases that seem unfair in practice. i don't believe that only one or two people could be the only alleged culprits in this matter.. anyone can engage in these practices regardless of how long they've been speculating in the land business.

of course, first and foremost, if someone wants to sell land to someone else in particular.. you should simply set the sale to be that person only. i realize not everyone is well-vesed in land selling/buying and may not completely understand how to manage it.. so maybe there should be something else in the UI to help a seller/buyer understand better what they're doing.

it's my belief that SL will have to be simplified, in some areas a lot, to be widely accessible and viable as a 3D internet/platform. but what can be done? what particular changes could help SL become more easily navigable?

On the present subject, a warning about landbots would seem in order, and maybe a popup reviewing the details of the transaction you are about to offer before you finalize it - so you have a chance to say Omigod, NO!, and fix it. I'm sure it is unintentional, but obviously LL has created a land sale interface that, with landbots in the picture, is hazardous to the economic health of people who don't deserve whaqt happens to them. A responsible company needs to fix something like that. OK, blame the victim, if you like, but fix it.

You know, it is important to bear in mind, when making systems and when making laws, what can be expected to be "reasonably expected."

What is not reasonably expected, in this virtual world or any other virtual world, and certainly not in the real world, is that someone who is completely invisible will pop up before you can even click a button and buy your land right out from under you.

Why? Because it is physically impossible, that's why.

Unless someone is using some sort of special mechanism not everyone has, in order to take advantage of other residents.

And where such things are possible, reasonable administrators declare them illegal.

No one warns SL residents that there are secret landbots capable of popping up out of nowhere and grabbing things out of your hands.

It is, therefore, unreasonable.

And I am completely disgusted that LL is allowing these practices to continue. That they would allow this to happen to even one resident and respond with a shrug of their shoulders, as if that person doesn't even matter at all, is bad enough.

Allowing wholesale and regular exploitation of residents who have no reasonable expectation that any such thing could even happen to them is unconscionable, and as such, every customer LL loses due to this is a customer they don't deserve to have in the first place.

That the exploiters are getting rich off of essentially STEALING other people's money, while LL looks the other way, is a crime, and nothing less than a crime.

coco

There are only two things you need to know to avoid landbots exploiting your transaction. One is the above. The other is don't set your land for sale at a price much lower than the cheapest land on the first page of the mainland land sales. If people did these two things, LL wouldn't need to change anything and we could close most of the landbot threads.

Thanks for leaving this open though. The more people that read these cautionary tips, the better.

Agree, Raymond. Now, how do we get LL to tell everyone who innocently signs on to SL and heeds their invitation to "Buy Virtual Land" gets fair warning that this is the sort of thing they have to do? I mean, before they get a bad reputation?

would it be reasonable to suggest that in Orientation that there be a pop-up type of message that describes "when selling land, be sure to..." and then go into a description of all the land sale variables?

we need to balance suffient information with an efficient learning curbe.

maybe the first time someone goes to sell land they are presented with a "pop-up" that informs them of the steps available to them for selling land and the possible expoits inherent in the selling of land.. with a check-box that offers "don't show this message in the future".. so that if they're not comfortable yet, they can leave those tips active, or once they're comfy with the interface, they can check that box and not have to receive the tips anymore?

i know the learning curve, overall, has to be streamlined. in concern of land sales.. are these some possible solutions?


the point is, new SLers have to be introduced to SL easily and informatively. and i think information pertaining to selling/buying should be part of that prientation process.. which wasn't needed when i joined. (then again, we still had Land Rushes then!)

so how else can we streamline the process inr egards to this issue?

Agreed, Cybin, but, really, when we sell land now as it is, we get pop ups saying
"ARE YOU SURE you really want to sell this land for x dollars blah blah blah???" Dude, if people can't be bothered to read that HUGE WARNING before they just click okay, then maybe they shouldn't be in the land reselling biz altogether.

Personally, and I know people are going to hate me for this, but I don't mind the land bots a whole lot. I needed to sell some land in the 2 days before my tier payment hit, and I set it to a price that I knew the bots would buy, and it went in like 3 hours. I was pretty happy not to be sitting on 6600 sq meters anymore. The extra amount that I could have made by holding out for a higher price (for more days) would not have offset the extra month's worth of tier that I would have had to pay.

People need to take responsibility for learning the "rules of the game" before they come screaming that they were robbed.

I agree. If i am able to buy land without knowing to handle it right i would make it carefully step by step, read all things slowly and try to understand it.As i bought first time land i cancelled the transaction more then one times to overthink it. Its my money i spend it for, so i want to be careful. I read all the landoptions and as i am sure i made the deal. Same as i started to sell my land. I figured out myself how i need to handle it, because i dont want to loose my money. So as i did it first time i cancelled the transaction more then one times to be careful about it. As i am sure for it i set it for sale. A lot of new residents only wants to run through the transactions as quick as possible, so they arent careful enough for it. I think, it doesnt help to pop up more information about it. All you need to know, you can read it at knowledgebase or solutionfinder. And if you dont understand it right, there is a way to get help by forums or at help island or by other Residents which own land. People which set their land for sale uncareful to anyone by cheap price.....need to learn the rules and keep it on their minds.There are some other topics where you can read it could not be a bot which buy the land under your feet.it could be a Resident flying in the air and looking around. And there is nothing wrong, if they do it cause the land is set for sale to ANYONE. I know, thats bad for the Resident which loose money and land for cheap. And its hard to understand, thats its their own mistake if they do like that.

So i can say only....be careful always of you are going to deal with your own money. Thats fact in SL like the same in RL.

Dont be afraid. SL is still a game to have fun there. Hope you all will have it.

Not to like landbots is one thing (I don't like them either), calling LL criminal is something else, this is slander and I would be careful with what I say. LL could handle things better, could install better protection, but there already *is* protection build in! And even with adding 100 more steps there still would be people happily clicking around and making mistakes. Sorry, but that's life.

Face it, you deal with real money here, sometimes with big money. Everyone should take it seriously and not like a clicking game. Check, check twice, check again. And someone who finds this forum AFTER such a mistake should have been able to find it BEFORE doing big business. And he would have found enough info about that landbot problem.

Sometimes, though the rules of THIS game are hard to find, and are learned the hard way. But I do agree that the popup is pretty explicit. Maybe a lot of people aren't being cheated in the true sense of the word, but it is an exploit that I would like to see corrected somehow.

Morning Brenda. And yes, I agree that it's aggrivating especially since you can't complain anywhere if you loose your land like this.

(My land is for sale, so could a forumbot relay this to a landbot pls?)

Mandy C

Hiya Mand.

So if I yelled out, "Sean Penn! Rosey O'Donnell! Rocket J. Squirrel!" they'd lock the thread?

=D

Sorry. This message was a troll. Couldn't resist.

I posted this in the 5-15min delay thread and thought it would also fit in here.........

since nothing can prevent mistakes that have happened a time delay would a lot of times just be ignored. The person doing the selling has already decidede in their mind that they did it correct. So the only thing that would happen is the mistake would be delayed.

I woulod rather see the boxes be greyed out untill you check for mistakes.... Such as, Is this amt you wish to sell the land for? If ticked No you go backand correct it, if ticked Yes then you get the Sell to an individual or anyone choice... if individual you enter their name to advance. If ticked Anyone you advance. Only after several choices have been answered would you get the final ticks.... Sell this land? or go back.