How can i reassure my people?

Your missing the point... It does not matter if they are legally binding or not. Hell for that matter SL does not even need to have a TOS. They can terminate you for whatever, whenever they want. Its their system. You avatar is not I repeat not a real person. Its a set of numbers that sits on property owned by Liden Labs. Just like if your on one of my web sites I own and I decide I no longer want you there... I ban your IP. Simple as that. The court judge can and did rule on the TOS yes but that does not mean that SL can not terminate who they want from their property.

Actually with that new WindLight whatever thingie the sky might be falling

Hahahahahah..................you might have something there

"We'll have to wait and see, nothing more I can say."

No other way IMO.

Agreed!

The German's can't shut down the Grid, as it isn't in Germany.

The United States has no Policy on Pixelated Child Porn, only the real stuff is banned.

Speaking of..............

Pixelated or not its all sick. Linden Labs should open the door wide open to the F.B.I. and let them monitor people within SL. I never knew how many disturbed people there was out in the world till Second Life. Scary really.

Monitor what?

Quote from Supreme Court ruling



Even then, its two consenting adults performing the act. Two adults CAN roleplay in RL and not be charged.

FBI Cannot get involved in an issue where the Supreme court said their is no issue.

You must not be fully aware then, or watch the news.

I rather keep my freedom in Second Life then hand it over to the FBI or whatever. Why do people want a Corporate Police State within Second Life, I choose Freedom over Policing.

*sigh*

The law that was defeated by Ashcroft vs. was the CPPA 1996 act.

The new act, the PROTECT 2003 act, has not yet been challenged in that regard. Another part of the PROTECT act *was* challenged and defeated, but the portion that related to computer-generated images wasn't.

PROTECT is different from the CPPA act in that it specifies that the computer-generated material must be "obscene", as per the legal definition of such, which is the Miller Test. As a general rule, material that is legally "obscene" is not protected by the First Amendment, so there was no scope for the Supreme Court, nor anyone else, to challenge it on those grounds.

Hrm I am behind in my current law I stand corrected.

Fox did .. and the Authorities didn't act.

Basically what would need to happen is a Federal Agency would have to make a case that Linden Labs and Second Life are violating the law. They would have to get a judge to agree at least its worthy of a hearing, and then the judge could issue an order.


Theres a lot of IFs involved.

Its not simply the case of a news agency catching the attention of a couple of cops.

I know that LL says that everything we "own" in SL is actually LL's property (coz it lives on their computers) but what happens if someone like Ansche Chung steps up and says "hey that's not right?" My friend has sunk something like $20,000 in SL by buying islands...that's hardly chump change... does he have NO legal recourse if LL decided to shut down his islands?

At the moment, that's how I understand it, yep, tough.

$20k is a lot of money, but a lot more people are sitting on reasonable plots worth several hundred dollars, which is still not throwaway money.

Broccoli

This court case does open an interesting idea, if your banned from sl and you lose money because of bdsm ect, can you sue them for removing your account under obscure/unwritten (not in the tos, or is it? someone check?) rules? This judge basically concluded the tos is not legally binding because it offers no securities to the customer, its bais toward LLs position so they can do as they please with your assets and your money.

Why don't you leave then? You can't take your clothes off in the new Sony world. Take your judgemental, fully clothed, F.B.I.-inviting ass over there, why dontcha?

Understand where you are comeing from But I co-own two Islands. fortantly this is the 2nd or 3rd time we have delt with this so we are kind of getting used to wait and see. but it dosn't keep me from loseing sleep.

Acidraven Harrington
Child Avatar
Height detector 1.0.4: AcidRaven Harrington is 1.191803 m
(3 feet 11 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the Colors high…
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never say we die.
Freedom is for Everyone.

Um, Voodoo I hope you're kidding...

If not, then why not invite whatever governmental agency you'd prefer to open your mail, have free access to your computer, look around in your home, track your daily activities...hell why not let em set up real time video surveillance in your bedroom? You're not doing anything wrong, so what's the big deal?

Jeez....

I think I'll pass on that. I take very little comfort in the canard "if you're not breaking the law you have nothing to fear". History has shown that unchecked power inevitably leads to abuses of that power, even against those who have "done nothing wrong".

And btw, I'm no pedophile and I'm no sicko. I am however, an adult, way the hell past 21 and I don't like moralists who don't know me from Adam telling me what I as an adult can or can't do if my actions don't hurt anyone else and don't break any established laws. That is the point.

If you find this viewpoint broadly offensive, feel free to AR me...

The moral majority is neither.

Perhaps you simply need to hit the road if you find the rest of us so profoundly disturbing, VooDoo. It's that type of attitude that's turned this Republic into the semi-police state it's become, with mass FUD constantly being flung about. No one is keeping you here - in fact, it might be a better place for the rest of us if you were to leave. On that note, all I can say is "bye now".

Thanks to all of you who replied to my question on topic, and to those who explored the arguments even if they drifted off topic a little. Certain other posts i did not see because i have them on mute so if they were addressed to me directly they were wasted.

I *am* operating a 'wait and see' stance on this matter.

I will not be verifying if the methods that are introduced are those that have been outlined in the official linden blogs. I am in UK and i will not give my Passport information or Driver's licence to LL or any third party company.

I came to SL with nothing in my pockets. ZERO. I have not put RL money into SL, but made my way by hard work and effort.

If i am banned from using my own hard earned homes, goods, etc., and places of employment by 'Adult' flagging, and prevented from doing that which harms no-one and is enjoyed by consenting adults, then I will simply cash in the Lindens i have earned or give them away to money trees or SLRFL and return to IRC from whence i came. I am glad that nobody relies on me for a home, but i am sad that people that i employ, and those that enjoy the fruits of my labours on their behalf will no longer be able to do so.

I do understand why LL are doing this, I dont want to see them shut down because they fall foul off the law, but i abhor the way its being done, even in these preliminary stages, with vague undefined warnings.

Again i send a plea.

Please, Lindens, Make it CLEAR what you intend so that we can act on it. We cannot conform to an enigma.

Imogen
"http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/full-reign-of-self-expression-for-consenting-adults-in-second-life.html">

no, the judge specifically ruled that LL cannot dictate arbitration and that legal means can be persued against LL despite the TOS. he was very critical of the entire arbitration policy.
beyond that case, ppl need to realise that just because a TOS (or even a signed contract) claims such and such that is not always legally binding.

imogen, have you made the group invisible and unpublished? this would go a ways toward calming anxious group members.

I think ppl should start to learn to stay in their own bussiness. If the land is flagged as Mature, just leave.
I think thats the point that LL wants, ppl telling where are Mature stuff flagged as not Mature.

In case, i'm againts all this. SL is for adults...there shouldn't be Mature or no mature areas. Is like saying "this part of the world will be for grownups, this for less grown, and this will be for children...and this will be for babies".
Stupid, so stupid.

And also, your secondlife...is not yours. And as we can see, death is in SL too. Some time ago, ppl were afraid of SL banks being a scam....now i think LL could be a bigger one. They can take your account and cash in a moment. Just because they want.