are the flood gates open now?

I wonder all the weekend why there was not the thought of a simple solution:

Rate all areas, or have the owners rate them, by PG and X. This is done already with Mature / Nonmature, so there should not be a problem at all. Since the reason for this ratings are the diversion of adults and kids, owners failing to do properly should have to face the consequences.

Then rate all stuff thats created by PG and X, meaning, a coke can is PG, a ballgag is X. Items with X cannot be worn in PG areas, so literally the dick will fall off... Creators that fail to rate their items properly (e.g. some adult toy being rates PG) should also face the consequences.

This would mean: the X rated areas can contain any item that is created, but the PG areas are kept clean from "offensive", e,g, X-rated items.

Any X-rated area should have a notecard, popping up at entry, be it TP, fly or walk. It should just have the mandatory information that this is an adult area, as well as a ownerwritten text with the purpose.

There you are: the creators and landowners regulate themselves, noone can claim, no to have known where they walk (thus finding the content offensive), and X-rated items cannot offend PG-avs or be used for annoying people in PG-areas.

And then, leave the content in the right ranking for those who VOLUNTARILY enter them or create them there.

Greets, Xe

Marty makes sense. Personally wjat I want from SL is not as important as what LL will let me have, true. What I ask and expect as a customer is for them to decide what they want to give me, and to communicate that clearly,concisely, and consistently. Not through the asinine , hastily conceived and contradictory manner they utilize now. Despite all the rhetotic, which makes for interesting reading, it is not so much of a freedom of expression issue as it is poor business practices on the Lindens part, showing little regard if not contempt for for it's core customer base. Pimping to the Corporations is fine, but what good is SL to them if the real users leave? Decide what you will allow and let us know. We can all decide from there. Right now SL is the only viable game in town from what I can tell, but that will change We've had TV News crews, and FBI Agents in world. I wouldn't be surprised if a potential competetor is in our midst, taking notes, getting ready to launch his thingie, intent on avoiding all the mistakes LL has made.
As far as server location goes, I don't care where they are located. US, UK, Hong Kong or Lower Slabobia. Decide what legal guidelines you will adhere to and let us know that. I think the dispersed servers idea is great. Let the country of origin dictate what content is allowed on that server, anyone who visits is bound by the laws of that country as well any applicable in your own. In any case The Providers need to get their heads out of the Nebula and figure out what they want.

If you are confused about what laws of what country apply to you, you must understand jurisdiction.

Jurisdiction is a governing body's ability to take physical control of you as a result of your violation of its law.

Typically, whether a governing body has jurisdiction over you largely depends upon where you live geographically.

I live in the United States, and that is where I am geographically most of the time. For purposes of law enforcement, the United States has jurisdiction over me, and no other country does. I can violate, for example, German laws with wild abandon, and not worry about any criminal consequences. That is because Germany has no jurisdiction over me.

However, a German citizen living in Germany is subject to the jurisdiction of Germany. If that person violates German law, even if part of the violation takes place with the help of a computer system in the United States, that person is subject to German law enforcement. The fact that the person may have been communicating with a computer server in the United States does not remove him from German jurisdiction. He falls under German jurisdiction because his body is, physically, in Germany.

Linden Labs is not subject to the laws of Germany, as long as no part of its physical operations are in Germany. German law enforcement has nothing and no one to seize. However, put servers in Germany, and now Linden Labs comes under the jurisdiction of German law. With some technical and legal savvy, perhaps Linden Labs could limit its exposure to German jurisdiction by limiting its physical presence in Germany. The extent of Linden Labs's exposure to German jurisdiction is based upon what German authorities could actually seize in Germany.

The difference between a country like Germany and a company like Linden Labs is that Linden Labs has jurisdiction over nothing but itself. It cannot physically seize anyone's person or property. That is because Linden Labs is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, which generally doesn't allow its citizens the power of seizing the person or property of other citizens.

Linden Labs may establish rules for its computer system that adopt German law. However, by adopting German laws as its own rules, it cannot extend jurisdiction of German law to people using its computer systems. That is because Linden Labs itself has no jurisdiction over the users of its computer systems. Unlike Germany, which may physically seize persons, the only enforcement action that Linden Labs can take on its own is refusal to associate with a person that does not accept or follow its rules.

It all boils down to this simply. If you want to know to whose laws you are subject, figure out who has jurisdiction over you. If you are a citizen of the United States and are physically in the United States, Germany has no jurisdiction over you period. Likewise, if you are a German citizen and are physically in Germany, the United States has no jurisdiction over you period. Linden Labs has jurisdiction over no one (except itself), period.

For almost everyone, it's really that uncomplicated. It only gets complicated for people with dual citizenships, have property in multiple countries, or do a lot of international traveling. The same principles apply, the only complication becomes what parts of you are subject to jurisdiction (e.g., your body, different property) and when you are subject to jurisdiction (e.g., your physical body is subject to the jurisdiction of a country only for the period of time that it is in that country).

So this is what all that means to Second Life: A foreign country cannot enforce its laws against you. Your home country can enforce its laws against you. Linden Labs is not a country, and can enforce laws against no one. Linden Labs cannot make you subject to the laws of a foreign country.

Sorry you are completely and absolutely wrong. In fact you could not be more wrong, more stupid, or more careless in your wrong assumptions

What about the Nat West 3?

(UK subjects’ extradited to the USA to face charges under US law that (at this time) are not deemed to be facing any charges in the UK.)

You really should do your research properly Amity

Maybe you should have a look at the pirates bay, MI is trying to scare them into stopping by using accusations based on the US law, but sadly (for the MI) they are in Norway...

Greetings, Xe

I have done my research.

The United States does have the option to exercise its jurisdiction by agreeing to the request of another country to turn over people wanted by that country. The key is, the United States has to agree to it, expressly, by executive order or treaty.

It is actually rare for the United States to extradite persons to other countries. The United States generally ignores such requests. And other countries routinely ignore the United States's extradition requests.

But if you know a way to get extraditions easier, you must be making a killing in legal fees. I wonder why I haven't seen you in the news.

"Too many people have selfish interests to compromise on even the smallest of inconveniences. Things like "why do I have to verify who I am?" Or "I'm an adult and will do as a please". Rules (laws) are coming."

Right.... it's selfish to express deep reservations about sharing excessive personally identifying information with a company who is in the business of selling such information to political campaigns. Right.... it's selfish to express deep reservations about an apparent change in policy that contradicts itself and sets up a situation where griefers have a new and ultimately powerful weapon to get rid of people they don't like.... all in the specious name of "safety" and "protection" from the imaginations of the adults who are different from ourselves.

I'd not call that selfish. I'd call it sane.

say someone streams snuff films from their home server in Somalia into a private Sim and invites a few people over and someone freaks out at the blatently illegal content and tells their local (say UK) police. Who gets busted? The person who watched it in the UK accidentally, the person in Somalia who streamed it from a country with no laws of any kind? the owner of the sim who may not have realised the nature of the content being streamed? or LL?

Actually, doesn't matter in this case, given that snuff films are illegal in most countries. So, one would notify LL who would notify the appropriate authorities.

Actually, I wouldn't mind if LL followed the rule of "Common Laws" in that those things illegal in the majority (3/4ths) of the countries by LAW, then that applies to Second Life. Might be less painful than this crude they're shoveling.

doesnt matter WHICH country you reside ..... OR what your country deems as "legal", money = power and influence, note ..RIAA, MPAA deciding WHAT is legal and making SURE they get what they want legislated.

its the LINDENS who will decide what THEY wish to host on THEIR servers... not AMERICA.... not UK...not GERMANY!!!!....

Private corporations can decide as long as it does not break any laws..... and im sorry all you flag waving hand on heart citizens of the "grand ol' US of A" Lindens ARE now under US and EUROPEAN law ...., so if Germany dont like it ... and the lindens want to keep 70% percent of the business then it has to show compromise .... the same way it has made all the Euro's accept no gambling ... to which we DONT have that law.

Hmmmmm will there be no smoking in SL next...*lol*

Come on folks .... lets be real here .... we have NO opinion at all...

We are just the numbers ....... If WOW has MILLIONS of customers with VERY stringent rules ...... the little couple of thousand users in SL who want TOTAL freedom are gonna get trampled under the weight of the Linden Dollar and the call of business.

Again ... we will just have to wait and see what happens ..... I know that I cant influence that greatly .. what the lindens do ... and to be honest I would be worried if I could ...

Where would skins fall in this hierarchy? Would they be X due to the possibility of nudity? Or PG with the assumption that avs would be dressed in most circumstances? What about clothing? How short can a skirt be, or how low cut a top? Is a bikini OK in PG? If so, how much tush can it show before it stops being OK? What about cultures where a woman showing her hair is a highly sexual act? How do we treat that? PG or X? And who gets to decide?

Point being, there's no truly simple solution.

Hmmm I would like second life to revert to what it was 2 years ago.

Having people from all over the world in which I can not communicate is not helpful to me. It is a pitty I can not talk in German, my parents forbid German, Hogan and Japanese from being spoken in their home. My father made me sorry for babling in German learned from my grandmother! She use to sing to me in German before he put a stop to it. Thus I have a small understanding of verbal German but the written word leaves me clueless.
I do not think that having databases all over the world is going to help when the main functions have to go through a central database. All this does is subject Linden Labs to the laws of other nations. Philip the visonary has made a bad possibly fatal mistake.
I do not want to be in a kiddy second life. I do not want to be responsible for others children, it is NOT my job. I do not like children and do not wish to be on the same database as the little brats.
Philip, If you turn Second Life into Kinderland, you will lose at least 90percent of your paying clients. It is still time for you to dump the freeloaders, restrict logons and keep Linden Labs all on American Soil. Once the EU gets involved and their different nations the game is over!

Honestly, I don't the sort of decentralization being proposed is something *A COMPANY* can do by itself, even if it splits up into various branches for each country. Furthermore, the fact of the matter is that most laws are determined nationally - there just isn't some world government that determines what's right and wrong around the world. (Even the UN is really an opt-in organization).

So looking forward, I think what we need for global SL to really work is to have SL (or something like it) be a framework which allows asset, access, and sim control by many independent entities that link together much like the internet does as a whole. It wouldn't be possible to be "banned from SL" or suspended or whatever. A company would have no control and thus no responsibility over sims run by someone else, nor the content on their servers or whatever. Companies can control acces (i.e. ban) resources or people originating from other servers etc. Of course there's a lot of details that are probably difficult to work out, but I think the principle is sound:

one protocol - many linked services
corporate responsibility extends only to what you control, and in the country where you operate
personal responsibility extends to what you do, where you're from, and what sim you're currently on - it's like being a tourist