are the flood gates open now?

I think LL is afraid that other countries will start closing their doors to Second Life. I forget the exact number, but I've seen a statistic floating around that showed that the US is actually a smaller percentage of it's userbase versus other countries.

Though I don't know any that have laws against the depiction of rape, if it's not real rape.

I know that Germany has an enormous percentage of the population base in SL, and has laws against the depiction of pedophilia; I do not, however, believe they have laws against the depiction of rape/ravishment.

And the pedophaelia part is fine with me. I don't want to see it either way, digital, drawn, or Real. I'm not even into the rapeplay, but I know a lot of people get off on the idea. If it's not against the law, I don't know why everyone is freaking out that it might get them banned. It's no different than before. I'd never expect to walk into a store like BareRose and see someone raping another person. There are places for that, like Midian or Crack Den.

Wow! I want a sim hosted on a server in Holland

Indeed.

And I imagine that on a number of European servers casinos will be legal again.

Only 30% of the current playerbase (or thereabouts) comes from the USA. The rest are from around the world.

So 70% of the playerbase are already working under the laws of another country in SL ... its inevitable that US players are going to join them, and honestly is there any reason why servers can't be run in other countries?

The world is not the USA.

Broccoli

Oh really? What countries? Where is illegal to see Jodie Foster in "The Accused"?

Big deal, orbit me, I just pop up again and orbit you, you think you can kill my SL AV?

Very few? I know lots of people who make a living in SL, just as I do. My business and currently my only income is at stake, that's exactly the same position LL is in. There's a lot more than a few hundred dollars involved for me; it's about paying my rent and getting food on the table.

It would be perfectly legal for me in RL to sell stuffed animals with a built-in dildo, but in SL I suddenly have to fear that someone finds fake bestiality offensive and compares humping prims to the abuse of living animals. Same with my BDSM wares and my "watersports" accessories: legal in RL, now questionable in SL. I also like the idea behind places like Hard Alley (wouldn't have named it if the name wasn't already all over the forums), where people can, exactly like in legal RL BDSM clubs, safely roleplay their fantasies about rough consensual sex.

I know there's no real freedom of speech in SL, but at least I expect a bit common sense from LL and rules that aren't harsher than any RL laws.

I wasn't calling the world the USA. I could see that happening, honestly, however...

I am from the US. If I were in Linden Labs position, I think it would be very frustrating indeed to in the end be forced to follow other countries laws over my own. I think it's partly why there is no SL China client. However, it's like I said before, in the end they will probably look at where their greatest userbase is, and try to accomidate that particular region. It is, in the end, about money. Money keeps Second Life running, money pays the rent, and car insurance, gas prices are on the rise, and people just like having money in general ;p

Sounds good, the US servers may end up deserted, will the sims be different Tier rates then in different countries?
Haven't heard anything about SL setting up on this side of the planet yet. But also wonder if due to the lag difference will people avoid visiting servers in other countries where possible, breaking the whole one world SL thing up into languages, destroying the wonderful cultural diversity we have .

No, but depending on where you are there are other things I could do. There are weapons in SL that do more than just orbit you.

So I have some of those too and 4 alts similarly armed so what, it doesn't cause any permanent damage or loss of life.
What next Virtual gun licencing?

Try playing sociotron sometime were killing a char can mean killing a character for good, they only have swords, and surprisingly people are very reluctant to use them on each other.

I never said anything about gun control. I know none of that stuff is permanent, but in a situation where if we suddenly had people trying to impose law in-world, player police force, people could use a lot of different things to effectively curtail that. It's amazing what making a region extremely laggy can do.

I don't play Second Life for the weapons. I have some really nice weapons, but they are for retaliation, because I don't bother with AR's. Nothing more.

Compared to the vast number of players, yes very few. Not to slight what you do in the least. I have several friends who make a generous part or all of their income from SL. That is why I included your group in my statement. But let me throw you a supposition. What if tomorrow what ever it is you sell, LL told you that it could no longer be sold, particular to your exact products. As a smart business person do you launch into a protracted argument about what is right or wrong, or would you as quickly and efficiently as you could rearrange your business plan so as to keep your income intact? What if you had 100 employs. Would you risk their livelihood on a principal? I think LL is being faced with some hard decisions not completely under their control. Can you even imagine what the repercusions of the German news incident involving actual transmisison and storage of illegal photographs on LL servers had within the company? It was a wake-up call for LL. I think they were probably naive in not realizing it was a possibility, but nonetheless it leaves them culpable. One thing is always predictable, and that is change. Well SL is a changing.. I think it is best time to diversify. :^)

If by diversify, you mean cash out all your Lindens and lower your tier to L$0, I'm right there with ya, buddy.

Nice idea Watermelon but this has already been proved wrong by LL banning worle-wide Ageplay minor sex due to German media and law even before any servers get spread internationally.
Sorry if someone's already pointed this out but I only got this far in the thread

We already know that LL plans to move servers seeing that they just opened up in Brighton UK,

And of course the numerous posts about paying for overseas transaction costs for US players.

The crunch is that Lindens Labs are a software and hosting house, they CAN and WILL host where ever they see fit and that best suits the business model.
The business model is currently HEAVILY biased towards the european market, and certain the Europeans arnt as het up on sex , drugs and rock and roll as lets say Southern States Bible Belt USA.
Everyones argument seems to be revolving around thier own needs which is fair enough.... we have americans going on about freedom of expression and the fact that the Lindens are based in the US..... Sorry they arnt any more they are international .... Does the fact that Microsoft is in the USA mean i dont have to pay them for my XP licence ... nope becasue its an american copywrite law enforced int he UK.
Does the fact that a LARGE part of the world see sexual ageplay towards minors illegal or at least distastefull... yes they do... and it effects the lindens revinew stream.

But the internet has brought around a revolution in the way people think....

Casions were brought down becasue America thinks its bad..... I notice far far less complaints about this issue.
Age Play was brought down because the rest of the world think its bad and America doesnt......... And theres OUTRAGE,

come on people ..... if one persons idea that age play is ok, why is NOT ok to gamble... after all ...the FBI means nothing to me personally in the UK .... thats what Interpol are there for.

I agree with so many posts about IP, and the realisation of RL income, I personally do not count on SL to make my living but I do have MY business in SL ... which i only hope allows me to break even or just short of it.

International orginizations find it hard to comply with EACH national law as to what is acceptable.. therefor each country can BAN that access from within that country, all the Lindens can do is use national law to influence the Linden Law of the virtual world.

At this present moment ....
Sexual age play with minors in SL is bannable full stop....
Casions in SL are not illegal but cannot be advertised
Furries in SL arnt Ilegal
Goreans arnt Ileagal
BDSM isnt illegal

If you look at the VAST amount of illegal activities that DO go on in SL....

Copywrite theft .... i.e Nike Shox etc
IP theft .... photoshopped clothes off the internet or texture theft
Illegal broadcasting....... Nigh Clubs etc

Never mind the alledged money laundering and the Lindens removing people "stuff" for "any and no reason"

In reality .... what do YOU the people want SL to be...

Would you like it to be "Anything goes as along as it isnt on MY doorstep"

or " Disneyland for Adults .... where you can build and create but no dirties"

or " You can do ALMOST anything apart from a list of things so BAD and generally distastfull or illegal to MOST countries there is no place in SL"

Now I personall seen the Lindens wanting to go down the Third route ... where you can do ALMOST anything ... but not EVERYTHING... becasue the term to be free .... means the freedom to choose the freedom of speech ... but also the freedom to not be in fear of having my computer removed for depictions of child porn ... or the freedom to look out of my Virtual shop window and NOT see a " One Prim Wonder" of a woman with jism over her face advertising some virtual knocking shop. These are hard times in SL...

It will play out one way or another ... but the ONE thing is certain is that YOU the players ... are playing the Lindens Game ... and belive me it IS there game...wither thier rules ... , i know its not nice ... but it IS a reality ... they want people to play ... they want people to own land and pay tier .... they want to have a running profitable business ... and if kiddie fiddlers loose them business ...... then its bye bye.... , I think that having the servers in different countries will reduce lag and network collisions have it just opens up a WHOLE new ball game of intersim legalities...... and would you need a "Virtual passport" to get in and out of these areas just as you do with "payment on file"

food for thought in deed

Marty

if you accessed SL from say Somalia, which is a state of anarchy last i checked, then the 'real life' laws wouldn't apply would they?

I follow the laws of Japan and the United States and when I visit another country will follow their laws as well. Making Second Life "international" is going to destroy it as surely as any griefer attack. It will be impossible to without turning it into a PG kiddie land and am not sure if that will work. Perhaps vitural worlds should be confined to their country. In second life now the residents are spilt up due to their language of communication. English speakers hang around other English speakers, French with French, etc.

I wonder what program will replace second life? Hopefully one based in the United States and one that is not hung up on providing services to the poor. One vitural world can not be all things to all people.

Lets close the doors ....remove international trade ....

Sanctions agains t third world and all bow down to the MIGHTY dollar.

Internationalisation is the future of ANY business ..... becasue after all isnt SL international allready.

Doesnt matters where something is BASED ... the internet makes THAT statement completely irelivent.

.. only because the Real World won't let it?
Any competitor will find the same problems

The idea of a resident government in SL has been kicked around since it started. It never got off the ground, probably for the most part because residents have no way of enforcing "laws" and rules. It's not like we can kick people from the grid like Lindens can.

I wouldn't want to see a resident government for all of sl anyways. I think the potential for abuse is too great. And I seriously wonder who would even want to take on the task of coming up with rights and laws. And what if our rights and laws clash with LL's? Ultimately LL's would win out.

Not something I would want to tackle in my spare time frankly.

Agreed :

Even if it could be the most enlightened Democracy in the history of the world - It would just be a LL dominated Puppet Government.

Any SL goverment would resemble a high school government anyway.

But will less to do.




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still annoyed no one picked up on my Pinky and the Brain Joke

Well, that wasn't the most well thought out response. There is a difference between doing what needs to be done and alienating 3/4s of your base population.

I probably wouldn't be so angry, except that we (their users) told them at the time they removed verification that this would happen. That children wouldn't have to 'sneak in' using Mommy's or Daddy's card, whereas to get on their own grid, they had to! Yeah, the credit card might have been the worst way to verify age, but it was just one more step that made the lazy kids not bother.

Okay, so we then asked for tools to allow us to deal with the situation ourselves. What did we get? The three classes of payment: No Payment on File, Payment Info on File and Payment Info Used. Not what we wanted, but many of us used it because it was all we had. We might have been happy with this new verification system, if everyone was required to do it. Or if they'd just leave these new rules at, "Put it behind the Adult flag." There should be no further need for any more 'rules.' We're being told that being adult (lets not bother with the kinky stuff, because next thing to go will be the Adult flag and adult content, which means, no more pixel sex) is a bad thing. We've got to "think of the children" that shouldn't have been allowed on the grid in the first place.

So, now their policies, past and present, bites Linden Labs in the behind and we're the ones getting punished. Yeah that sits so well with me.