BOT places! List them here!

However, your BIG one misses the point.
The reason that traffic and picks are no longer a good measure of popularity as intended by LL is that some people have subverted the system for their own profit.

Your point on picks does not stand up to inspection.
When people use Picks to talk about themselves and their friends, this does not have an effect on the popularity rankings of places.

You don't often get things right, and this no exception. You know very well that Picks have been used for personal things more than for favourite places. Picks camping is miniscule by comparison.

Chip. Don't change the subject. You told Bella that we were "scamming" certain people. I'm sure you know what a scam is. If you didn't before, you should know now. I've posted it twice for you. We are not scamming anyone.

You may say that we are cheating, and I will disagree with the judgement, but I will accept that, in your way of thinking, we are cheating. Scamming is something quite specific though, and we don't do that. If you honestly think that we do, then you don't understand what a scam is.

You must see though, that arguments are becoming ruder, and I hope you understand that as soon as people are calling me thief/scammer/worse then a griefer, they loose any respect from me they had. People do not have to agree with any of my arguments, but they should keep things in perspective. As soon as they start posting like for example Slings last 2 post, they become nothing but a joke.

Since people keep saying that traffic and picks were introduced with a different intention, I will put in my 2 cents as well.

Yes, traffic was once ment as a way to measure popularity. Not the best way, but is was the intention.

Yes, Picks might once have had the functionality of showing what places you liked in SL, so also a way of measuring popularity.

And now the big BUT (one T ).
It might come as a surprise, but every system evolves. Every system needs to be tuned and developed during time, as things do change. Google search has been changed over and over again to get the best results. The google appliance probably will as well.

Traffic has not been a way to correctly measure popularity for long, maybe not even ever. So if I decide to fire up a handful of bots tomorrow, I do not change a thing: traffic is not a correct metric as far as popularity is concerned. Probably traffic as a metric for pupularity only worked in the early days, when SL was small enough.

Picks are in fact the same: The intention might have been to point out popular places, but it does not work well. Go to a busy place and check 50 profiles. How many of them just have stories about the avatars themselves, their families, and things they like to do? Without linking to any parcel at all? This is not new and did exist long before picks camping was introduced.

It does seem that things do only become problematic for people as soon as they see someone earns money with it. No one complained about the "abuse" of Picks like I mentioned, it became only abuse in the eyes of some people after it was used for business. Why would that be?

Exploitation does not equal Evolution.

Well I do see Sling was also subjected to a lot of rude language by Phil in this thread.

Now as to you taking exception to the griefer comparison, I don't see the escalation. Griefer describes a pretty wide range of problem-makers, most of whom do less damage to the average business owner than a Trafficbot runner.

I would certainly consider the "Scammer" and "Cheat" labels as worse than the "Griefer" label were they applied to me. Of course I get other labels applied to me so I have a different hierarchy to contend with.

Colette, I am curious about your answer to the question in my posting you quoted. Picks were used for different things already before any Picks Camping system existed. So why is it wrong to use picks to earn money, and not wrong as a way to show who your SL family is? Both would be abuse, if you consider how Lindens are supposed to have ment Picks to be used.

I find your "No" to be intriguing.
I can picture LL's designers saying "People put places they like in their Picks. That's a good general measure of popularity. Let's make is a factor in search ranking."
You don't accept that?
Why do you think that LL made Picks a search factor?

I think it would be because for the most part, "friends and family" picks don't generate any appreciable volume of IBLs back to a particular parcel. They are pretty random, and most likely have negligable influence in search ranking.

By contrast, the larger scale campaign to buy large numbers of pick spaces for the IBL back to one specific parcel is much more likely to influence ranking of that parcel.

It's not really entirely about the commercial aspects of this. There are non-commercial locations on the grid who also employ some of these tactics, and in my book that is just as wrong.

Colette, I am curious about your answer to the question in my posting you quoted. Picks were used for different things already before any Picks Camping system existed. So why is it wrong to use picks to earn money, and not wrong as a way to show who your SL family is? Both would be abuse, if you consider how Lindens are supposed to have ment Picks to be used.

I have at least been called a thief by Sling, and I don't think I am out of order if I respond to it in kind. I didn't in that particular case. But if you call me a thief, don't be surprised if I call you a bucket of shit. And don't object with it either. Find fault with the one who started it.

I don't remember each individual insult that I've received from each individual person, but I can assure that, if I've insulted Sling, it is solely because she insulted me. If you want to correct, be my guest, but it needs quotes and post numbers for verification as to which occured first.

Incidentally, Collete doesn't remember the insults either. She is just stirring when she says, "Well I do see Sling was also subjected to a lot of rude language by Phil in this thread." without including the insults/rudenesses the other way.

People get what they ask for from me. If they discuss seriously, that's all it will ever be. If they throw insults at me, they get usually them back - often with interest - and it will be well deserved.

Uh Phil ..

The definition you gave Chip remember?

scam
A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle.

He gave you the definition of fraud back.

How is it changing the subject when it was the primary adjective in your definition?

You were referring to both Traffic and Picks

On the whole do you really think the Lindens implemented their system hoping it would be gamed?

Evolution implies something moving forward, advancing to be better. That is not what has happened.

You could have said the system Devolved. Then I'd have agreed.You were referring to both Traffic and Picks

On the whole do you really think the Lindens implemented their system hoping it would be gamed?

Evolution implies something moving forward, advancing to be better. That is not what has happened.

You could have said the system Devolved. Then I'd have agreed.

Really I do not care how rude Phil was to Sling. What I do care about is what is said to me, and I have been called a thief and a griefer. Griefer = someone aiming to harrass other players.

Zaphod,
Okay, I understand that if you are against influencing your search ranking by this, you think it is wrong. No objections.

However, it has been presented several times by several people, that the fact that Picks are not used for what they were ment for by the company, is wrong. And therefore I asked, why it is wrong to abuse it for search rankings, and right to abuse it to show who your relatives are. Both are not wat the company is supposed to have created them for. So saying we are not using picks for what they were ment for, is a false argument in this discussion.

Still no answer on my question.

Rudeness subjected to you is a bit like collateral damage. While you don't deserve it because you haven't been throwing out personal attacks, I don't see it as inexplicable.

Zaphod,
Okay, I understand that if you are against influencing your search ranking by this, you think it is wrong. No objections.

However, it has been presented several times by several people, that the fact that Picks are not used for what they were ment for by the company, is wrong. And therefore I asked, why it is wrong to abuse it for search rankings, and right to abuse it to show who your relatives are. Both are not wat the company is supposed to have created them for. So saying we are not using picks for what they were ment for, is a false argument in this discussion.

...<stupidity>...

This is a reply to Colette, who you quoted.

Colette:
Chip gave me a definiton of one word from a 3-word phrase. It's stupid to think that the one word has the same meaning as the 3-word phrase, but if you think it does, what can I say. You condemn yourself out of your own mouth.

My contention is that misusing systems such that they do not function as intended, and displace others in the search rankings unfairly, is wrong.

Using picks to showcase other Residents, and not necessarily a parcel of land, doesn't have anywhere near the impact that wholesale farming of picks has, if even any at all. It could also be argued that the practice is not outside the spirit of the Resident Picks concept.

...

You have to look under the hood, and examine intent and consequence, not just the behavior itself.

This is a reply to Colette, who you quoted.

Colette:
Chip gave me a definiton of one word from a 3-word phrase. It's stupid to think that the one word has the same meaning as the 3-word phrase, but if you think it does, what can I say. You condemn yourself out of your own mouth.

If a scam is a fraudulent business scheme, then what do you suppose the key word there is? Could it be, oh I don't know, fraud? If you're purposely trying to appear foolish and ignorant then well done sir. Well done. You set a new standard for obtuseness.

Though I understand what you mean, I refuse to take any rudeness from people, I am done discussing with them if they do.

Because I was called a thief and worse then a griefer, does not give me any right to get rude to you, for example.

Phil answers rudeness with rudeness, insults with insults, as far as I have seen it. He is right in his statement that he never started it, it was always after someone else started. You will not see me doing the same though, and again: I refuse to take it from anyone else.