Update

As for defamation, libel, slander, the truth is always a defense.

SqueezeOne, I don't know, but you did mention twice on this thread, about Europeans feeling guilty about WWII??

Why?

I'm a 'European' I certainly don't feel guilty... The Nazi's were behind the war, not Europe, without the Nazi's, there would have been no war.. so why should Europeans feel guilty?

Is it the fact that millions of Europeans died in the hands of the Nazi party that you draw this conclusion? They died to preserve the 'freedom' you enjoy today and to free the nations enslaved and murdered by the Nazi ideals?

I find your 'argument' not only off topic, but a deflection from the true posters thread. If I might add... is something bugging you about WWII? Please don't share, very few give a monkeys. Thanks.

Very true - If Europe hadnt stood up to Nazi Germany when they did - its difficult to know how much worse things would have gotten.

--------------------
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'

Winston Churchill - June 18, 1940

im of African American, Native American, German, Jewish, French and Scottish descent,
i find EVERYONE offensive.

can we get on with our SL please?

Trying to project guilt on a European alive today for something that happend before they were born is as ridiculous as telling a modern day American he is responsible for Slavery, Civil War misdeeds, or the atrocities committed against the Indians. You could in a way say certain Governments were complicant or cooperative with the Nazis, or at the very least non reactive, as our own was early on, but that's about it. You can regret someone else's actions, but you canonly be guilty for what you do.

In my Libertarian opinion,

Symbols and free speech, ranting and rhetoric are not harmful at all. Sticks and stones you know...

The very idea of limiting, banning,inhibiting the free speech of others in any way is more detrimental than whatever nonsense they were spouting out.

Allowing someone to express themselves and glorify whatever they want to glorify does not mean that you agree with them, endorse what they stand for. It just means you love freedom, and free speech.

Every one of us deserves to live in a world, real and/or virtual, where we are allowed complete freedom of expression and choice.

Even nazis and other hate groups deserve the right of self expression. As long as they are not actively participating in violence against others, or directly calling for it in their speech.

Example:
Kill X people...... Bad, stop this kind of rhetoric. It calls for direct violence against others

I hate x people.....Let this go on, it's freedom of expression. If they want to waste their energy hating so be it. I'm a lover and my life is great as such.

Sorry for the long winded post but I think everyone deserves freedom. Whatever that means for them as an individual.

Andy

Not to belittle the contributions made by those in Western Europe, but the ETO was a sideshow. The Germans lost the war on 22 June 1941. Land wars in Asia seldom go well for invaders.

It was all related. The fact that that resistance took place directly changed whether Germany invaded the Soviet Union.

And the fact that England (and the US even before the war) supplied the Russians with supplies through Murmansk helped them fend off the war machine.

While its true it was the Red Army that did the vast majority fo the fighting (and dieing) agaisnt Germany, the contributions of England and France were important to the overall effort.

The German failure on the Eastern Front was a major blow to Germany's chances and a portion of that was due to American and British material support of The Soviet Union. Several things in the ETO were pivotal as well in my opinion. Save for the UBoats the German Navy was a non entity after Bismarck and Tirpitz were eliminated, and the British cracking Enigma was a huge force in keeping the Wolfpacks in check, as well as the virtual nuetralization of the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain. The underground movements were also valuable, not only in France but in Eastern Europe, Greece, and in the Scandinavian Countries. In a sense Barbarossa was the beginning of the end, but even there, Churchill's refusal to sue for peace so Hitler could concentrate on the Eastren Front was important. A lot of the heavy lifting was done before the US came into the war in Europe, but I like to think of WWII as a case where all the victors should share equally in the credit.

While I want to agree with you... there is one major functional problem that prevents me.

When hate groups solidify, they empower each other to harm and kill... and then provide false witness for each other allowing them to escape the justice they deserve for harming/killing.

I'm all for freedom of expression... but at some point that expression can become oppression, just as easily as not being free to express can.

i just defined the natzi party and the public hate propoganda that this guy says should be left up and that another person didn't find anything wrong with because it was "art" if you didn't read the comments made buy them i suggest you do because honestly this is what a lot of people are saying that this type of printed material displayed in second life publicly not privately behind a ban line lol is okay

end of discussion I think you need to read the history of the comments being made in most cases some may have thought about it and changed their mind on their stance remember these threads came about as a result of someone reporting anti semetic material in plain public view to linden labs and the argument is that this printed matter is okay because its how you "use it and see it" that is the issue and of course everyone has the right to read what they want. I agree just not on a billboard or from a guy passing out hate pamphlets on a street corner

as I said the argument was simplistic on his part its not so simple and the reason hate propoganda is called hate propoganda and not art or free speech or whatever is because its not that its material which in someway promotes the oppression of another individual or group of individuals over their own freedom

so the rights and freedoms that people want or think they need in some cases is turning out to be the right and freedom to see this stuff in public where it simply does nto belong.

hate is simple

its even defined in the constitution the first ammendment of the US where they are talking about this "free speech" its simple and if you dont think it exsists I suggest you go and read your constitution even I as "foreigner" know what it says

it qualifies free speech and seperates it from hate and "free hate speech" very clearly

yes you have the right to free speech but it gets limited to this

1) everyone in the US of all race and religion has certain rights the same rights as each other citizen there to live free without oppression and has the right to equal protection against things like racial hatred (go read it its in there you know so that would be 1 strike against the ability to spew racial hatred and oppressing people in public on posters and printed matters in your "vanilla utopia"

2) everyone has the right to privacy


Bottom line the concept of free speech does not cover racial hatred, bigortry and the right to speak freely about these things you can think it you just can't go around and plaster signs up all over the place

In canada we are a little more straight forward about it and freely admit we have no free speech laws because that would mean that hatred can be freely talked about as well. We have in the past and continue to now stopped people from entering the country for the sole purpose of publicly speaking of oppressing certain racial minorities. Once upon a time when we did it and I remember it well their was a cry of outrage from the USA and this was many years ago that this happened 20+ years ago and then they quieted down about it and now accept it although the groups that were rampant at that time have also kind of died down the fact remains that over time this kind of stuff has become less and less acceptable and people have had to become more and more stringent about dealing with it as people seem to feel its their right to try to oppress others by using this argument that those stopping them from spreading their hatred type speech is in effect oppression in itself.

If you say so

bottom line the rules to stop hate speech would not exist unless it was occuring as no law would have had to be made and no policies stopping people at the boarder would have had to be made. The rules to stop hate speech and the so called freedom to preach about oppression are in existance due to the feeling that some people have that they have a right to attempt to stir up hatred in others and recruit people to their cause to oppress a certain race, religion or possibly a bunch of people from a single country.

Yes i know you want to say what you want where you want and whatever you want and even think you have the right to do it. You loose that right the moment you cross the line into spreading hatred and for lack of a better way to say it will be bound and gagged for it because you DO NOT have the right to tell people to oppress others and limit the activities of others based on your own measureing stick. Its called law and it does exist and has to exist as long as this type of thinking exists which as we can see it clearly does

I think you are on to something here. That is why I think this subject must be approached very carefully. In reality and virtual reality.

If the powers that be have the ability from denying any group the ability to mobilize and solidify, they can deny all groups that ability. Even those that most of us consider trying to make a change for the better.

I am a very philosophical person and believe that both ends of any spectrum or gauge are needed inorder for the other or anything inbetween to exist.

If you remove hate speech, you effectively remove love speech at the same time. We have to trust as decent human beings that the universe will find balance. We are all entitled to live the life we desire.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions... liberty and freedom mean the ability to choose for oneself what they think is right... not the right to choose what's right for others.