Anyone else using GeForce 8800's yet?

Okay, I'll admit it. This thread is far more about bragging on my new hardware than it is about asking questions, but I promise there are some good question, so mods, I hope you'll see fit to leave this where it is.

Alright, to get the bragging part out of the way, I finally got a new PC after 4 years with my old one, and being as sick to death of lag as I am, I decided to go all out. Here are my specs:

Intel Core2 Extreme Quad factory overclocked to 3.66GHz
Dual 768MB nVidia GeForce 8800's
EVGA nVidia 680i SLI motherboard
2GB Performance DDR2 with heat spreader (upgradeable to 8GB, which I'll take care of soon)
Three 10,000 RPM 150GB SATA hard drives
Soundblaster X-Fi
Liquid cooling system
1100W power supply
Two dual layer 16X DVD+/-RW
and a few other bells and whistles

Needless to say, I'm loving this thing so far. I'm averaging about 50FPS in unpopulated areas, and about 25 in busy places, which may not sound all that spectacular until you consider that that's at 512M draw distance with every single SL graphics option turned on, and a nice 16xQ anti-aliasing assigned to SL via nHancer. All I can say is SL looks freaking spectacular!

My first questions have to do with SLI. First, does anyone know if there's any way to run dual monitors in SLI mode? Second, has anyone tried running SL in SLI mode, and have you noticed much difference in performance? Any pitfalls to watch out for? In other words, before I go sacrificing my second monitor while SL is running in SLI mode, I'd like to know if it's avoidable, and if it's not, if it's worth the sacrifice.

Next, and this is kind of off topic from SL, but since we're here, I've got one annoyance on this machine that I'm hoping someone can help me with. I can't get the taskbar to span both monitors. On my old machine, the option for that was in nView Porperties, on the Windows tab. On the new machine, that option is gone. Has it been moved? I haven't been able to find it. Anyone know?

I can't answer any of your questions, but you'd better pull out a towel to wipe up the puddle of my envious drool....

Similar setup, same motherboard...

There isn't a way to run SLI on dual monitors, and there's little if any performance increase in SL with it. Perhaps slightly enhanced fill rate when running 16x FSAA, but that's not SL's bottleneck usually anyways. No other geometry setup/triangle pushing advantages of SLI are used with SL. I've tried it and the biggest differences seem to be "more heat, more fans spinning, and one less monitor". I haven't tried it with VBO yet.

Also, take a look at affinity with your C2Q. Chances are pushing the SL process to one core will do you better than allowing it to dance about on all of the cores. FirstLook seems to change this a bit, but as for the main viewer, I see better gains on only one core.

Another 680i rig here

eVga 680i with P23 - QX6700 quad core under a Zalman 9500 (it can be done, with some cutting), 4GB RAM, 2 eVga 8800GTS, RAIDed Raptors, dual GB NICs talking to a Buffalo Terastation. Had the Bigwater cooling but it sucked, and the pump died while I was out (after only 2 months) and fried the original processor (dual core).

I run the 8800s out to 4 Samsung 204b 1600x1200 displays (horizontal orientation), usually 3 across and 1 above the lower-center. I've found all sorts of crunchy bits in SL, which seems to be confused (as are many apps) when you're running in 6400x1200 resolution.

With the new VBO in first look, I can sustain about 50FPS 1600x1200 (windowed, not full screen) in any of the Caledon sims, not noted for their use of small textures or simple shapes. That's while running Visual Studio 2005 and Photoshop CS2, btw. I haven't bothered noodling with affinity.

The latest 8800 drivers (97.44) definitely cause random system hangs/BSODs. I backed off to the previous version and everything's fine.

Thanks for the info, guys. Definitely helpful.

For what it's worth, I think I found the answer to the taskbar issue. From what I've been reading, it seems the "allow taskbar to span multiple displays" option is only available on the Quadro cards. My old PC had a Quadro FX 3000 in it (fantastic for Maya, not so hot for games or SL). It's a shame. I'm really gonna miss that feature. Oh well.

EDIT: By the way, Michi you were sooooo right about setting the affinity to a single processor for SL. I'm looking at SL with my jaw on the floor right now, as the stats bar is reporting 80FPS.

EDIT 2: And on the mainland, with 49 people currently in close proximity, I'm still getting 14 FPS. That's what I used to get in an empty sim by myself.

for the multiple monitor taskbar issue, you might want to look at UltraMon http://realtimesoft.com/ultramon/

Very cool. Thanks, Raztira. That should do it.

I think I've finally found the post I was looking for.

I'm considering buying a Dell XPS 710. Possibly the top of the line 'H2O' which has 2 Nvidia 8800 GTX cards in SLI mode. I believe it's a Quad core with 4 gig of ram.

Needless to say I'm not going to make a major purchase like this unless I know of some other folks in SL who have the same or similar machines and are having success with them.

Any opinions or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!!!!!

I looked at lots of brands when I made my purchase. I set up a spreadsheet comparing features and prices of the various makes and models, as well as those of just buying the parts separately and building it myself. Surprisingly Dell XPS was toward the bottom of the bang for the buck scale. My last machine was a Dell, and it was a workhorse for sure, but after researching modern gaming rigs, I really can't recommend Dell XPS.

The company I ended up going with is called CyberPower. Their prices are incredibly low for what they're offering, and the level of customization they offer blows Dell and Alienware out of the water. My system ended up costing just $300 above what it would have been if I had built it myself, which obviously was well worth it. It was really a no-brainer. Had I bought a similar rig from Dell, I would have paid far more (not to mention having to talk to India every time I might need support).

I can't say the experience has been flawless, as I've had to reinstall pretty much every driver myself since not everything was working properly out of the box, but I can live with that. I've had to deal with far worse when buying computers in the past, even from Dell. There are no major problems so far, and the warranty is solid in case any pop up. All in all, I'm very pleased with the purchase.

Head on over to cyberpowerpc.com and check it out. I think you'll like what they have to offer.

Can someone come over here and help this poor guy
/111/41/161668/1.html

Chosen Few.

Definitely an impressive site along with an excellent history of above average reviews. I sent them a question regarding their compatability or track record (if any) with Second Life. Looking forward to see what they have to say.

Even though Dell has a presence in SL (Dell Island), no one in their customer service or support dept. knows any thing about SL or what it is. I tried 4 times. We'll see.

Thanks for the link!

Added after original reply

P.S. In my excitement to finally find a post that dealt with my immediate questions, I failed to realize that you initiated the thread!

Can you tell me about any issues you had regarding setting up your new PC for SL? Which ever machine I purchase, I also plan to upgrade it to the hilt in a very similar fashion to yours regarding options.

Have you used Cyber's support yet, and if so, were you satisfied with their knowledge level and responce time?

I went through a quick customization and my PC will be over $4,000.00. Don't know if all of that is necessary but I'm able to do this now so I might as well. With that kind of price tag, I'm sure you understand why I'm being so cautious.

Thanks for your time. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Carolyn

Hey Carolyn, let me see if I can answer some of your questions. Disclaimer, most of this will be opinion and/or speculation since, one, I don't work for Cyberpower, and two, I've only been dealing with them for a couple weeks now, so I don't have much in the way of stories yet.


That's kind of a tuff question to ask of any PC manufacturer, I think. SL is still relatively unknown compared to the popular games these rigs are designed to run, and architecturally it's a really weird program, pretty different from anything else out there.

I'd be curious myself to hear if they have any experience with it, but I would tend to doubt it. Gaming rig companies tend to benchmark their products on things like Doom3 and other popular games that are well known resource hogs, which won't run with all options on "normal" rigs. SL's still pretty unusual by comparison, not quite what's in the majority interests of these companies' target markets.


That's really funny. I've become used to the fact that their tech support guys know nothing, but you'd think the sales department would at least be somewhat educated on where their calls might be coming from. Someone definitely dropped the ball on that one.

I wonder if you'd have the same experience starting from the Dell island in SL.


As I said earlier, I had to reinstall pretty much every driver myself. That was a bit annoying, but it wasn't the end of the world. I've definitely experienced worse difficulties with new PC's in the past. Since putting all the right drivers in place, the system has been running flawlessly.

As for hardware issues, the only problem was that one of the DVD drives was only half way plugged into the ribbon cable, so I had to tighten the connection myself before the drive would work. I think that was actually Fed Ex's fault though, not CyberPower's. The woman who delivered the package was actually almost smaller than the box. It was obvious she had kind of tumbled it up the sidewalk to get it to my front door, as all the corners of the box were wet and pushed in. Needless to say, I wasn't too pleased with her for having treated my $4600 package in that manner. I'd be willing to be that in all her jostling, she caused the cable to fall out of the socket.


Sadly, I haven't been able to get through to them. The line was constantly busy when I tried, which was annoying. I ended up solving all my problems myself though, so I haven't had to keep trying them. I don't know if it was just a particularly hectic day over there, or if this will be an ongoing problem. I really hope it's not the latter. Time will tell.

I guess if I wanted to be cynical about it, I could say that I probably prefer the busy signal over talking to India anyway. I'm sure it's a lovely culture if you live there, but calling them for help from over here is not fun. Oh, how I hated that with Dell.

The person who recommended Cyberpower to me told me that when he had a laptop problem, they had it fixed and returned to him within 4 days. Also, when he ordered a computer sans OS, they were very helpful in instructing him over the phone where to get the drivers he would need to install the OS himself. His exact words to me when I asked about service were, "Their service beats Dell and Alienware, but I guess that's not really saying much."



That price tag sounds about right. My rig came to About $4600 with all the bells & whistles I added, and shipping. One word of advice when configuring, don't get the neon light. It looks cool & all, and for only $10 it's a fun little add-on, but the power switch for it uses a PCI slot. I'm gonna need to remove the thing when it comes time to add the next cool PCI card.

I agree with you about caution. $4000 is $4000. Thinking in the thousands may be the norm when dealing with high end computers, but commonplace or not, it's still a heck of a lot of money. I spent a while doing research before going with Cyberpower, and everything I looked at told me they were providing the most bang for the buck. A similar rig from Alienware would have cost between $6000 and $8000, depending on the model. (And by the way, I couldn't figure out what about the $8000 one made it cost more except that it was labeled "fastest PC on the planet", and the other one wasn't. The specs were pretty much identical to the $6000 one, which I had configured up from one of their medium range models.)

By the time I'd finished looking around, I had eliminated all the options except for Cyberpower and homemade. I had actually really wanted to build it myself since it's something I've always wanted to learn to do, and my friend who's an electrical engineer had kindly offered to teach me by hand-holding me through putting it together, but when I saw that Cyberpower's price was only $300 over the parts pricing, I figured I'd be an idiot to pass on having a warranty over just $300.

If you do want to go for the homemade option, by the way, Newegg seemed to have the best pricing on the components. Tiger Direct was a little lower on some things, so if you really want to get the absolute lowest price, you could mix & match from the two, but it's obviously simper to buy everything from one place. Between the two, Newegg came out less for the whole package. I'll repeat though that missing out on a warranty over just $300 seems pretty silly to me.

I hope all that has been helpful.

Your post is,, very helpfull!!! And I wasn't even considering the neon light, even for $10.00. I'll be giving Cyber a call this week and see what they have to say regarding the type of PC I want. Like I said,,, basically the same configuration as yours.

I'll also mention the fact that you had to re-install your drivers. Even though it's not really a big deal,,, you shouldn't have to go throught that annoyance. All of those drivers should've been installed and tested before they shipped the unit for the price you paid!

I've been in IT for quite some time and I know what you're saying about dealing with India. Nothing against the people who I've found as a group to be very helpfull and kind,,, but trying to get past the language barrier is trying at best! And,, many of them are just reading from documentation rather than from practical experience so I've found. On a few occasions, some actually admitted it to me. Many,,, many times I could hardly understand what they were trying to say! Way too frustrating to deal with! In a prior position I had, I worked with an Indian fella and when support needed to be called,,, you guessd it, we always put him on the line.

Any way thanks for the information. I'll let you know what my final choice is!

I'll second the "run away from Dell." I've been helping a friend try and upgrade a Dell system and it has been a living nightmare. Dells are fine for a home user or office that doesn't have many performance needs beyond running an office suite and some light photo editing.

I ordered my system through PC Club because I'm lucky enough to live near one of their 40 stores and go there for all my hardware upgrade needs. There were things I wanted that weren't on the online configuration menu and I was able to get someone at the store to substitute and write my order directly. I had the system in about a week and have been thrilled with it. I've used their repair service for a previous system and was happy with the support, and you don't have to talk to Pakistan....

Their top of the line gaming system (Enpower V-Game 05) has pretty much the same configuration as you've both desribed.
http://www.pcclub.com/systems_desktops.cfm

Just when I'd relegated myself to either living with my taskbar on just one monitor or buying Ultramon, I finally heard back from nVidia. Apparently what I'd read about the taskbar option being unique to the Quadro cards was wrong. The GeForces can absolutely do the same thing. The problem was I had one monitor plugged into each card instead of both plugged into one. Per the nVidia TSR's suggestion, I plugged both monitors into the same card, and the option for the wide taskbar appeared, along with a slew of other multi-display options that had been absent before.

So, while I'm happy that I've got my wide taskbar like I had wanted, now I've possibly got a new problem. With both monitors using the same card, am I not negating the benefits of having two cards in the first place? Even with the new plug configuration, SLI on dual monitors is still not an option, so it seems the second card is now just sitting there doing nothing.

Of course, I'm not seeing any drop in performance this way so far (still getting 80+ FPS in SL with all my lovely options turned on and maxed out), but dammit, I paid for both cards, and I want both cards to do something. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Have you called the support line at CyberPower? After all, they built the PC so they should know the optional settings available.

Also,,, I've done some further checking on CyberPower and I'm also going to be ordering my PC through them. Basically the same or similar configuration as yours. They have a model "Gamer Infinity SKI-KO" that I'll tweek just a bit with a few upgrades Such as the power supply, wiring & cable options and maybe a TV tuner.

I already have a Dell 30" monitor so I won't have the same issue as you regarding using a second monitor. This one is larger enough for my purposes. If you have any other suggestions that I should consider before placing my order (which will probably be by weeks end) Let me know.

And thanks for the suggestion to look at Cyber Power.

Carolyn

Hey Carolyn. Glad to hear you're going with CyberPower. If I might ask, what steered you towards the SLI-KO in particular? My impression was that pretty much all their models can be configured almost identically, give or take an option or two on each. I ended up going with the Infinity 1950 since it was the only one with the overclocked Core2 Extreme, and I couldn't resist the difference between the standard 2.66 GHz versus the overclocked 3.46 GHz (30% boost, huge). With the 1950, you just have to configure out that ATI crap, replace it with the GeForce 8800's, a 680i motherboard, and you're good to go.

If you want to see the full list of the options I chose, here it is:

QTY ORD  QTY SHP  ITEM             DESCRIPTION                          UNIT PRICE  PRICE    

=======  =======  ===============  ===================================  ==========  ==========

      1        0  ID-INFO          64976 INF1950Z                             0.00        0.00

      1        0  CU-190-103       CP OVERCLOCKED 3.46GHZ QUAD QX6700      3286.00     3286.00

      2        0  HD-204-104       WD RAPTOR 150GB 10,000 RPM SATAII          0.00        0.00

      1        0  HD-204-104       WD RAPTOR 150GB 10,000 RPM SATAII        151.00      151.00

      1        0  RM-312-107       2X1GB CORSAIR DDR2 6400 XMS2 ETREME       45.00       45.00

      1        0  CS-211-110       BLACK NZXT ZERO ALUMINUM NO POWER          0.00        0.00

      1        0  PS-102-106       POWER SUPPLY 420WATT                       0.00        0.00

      1        0  NL-102-102       BLUE COLD CATHOD LIGHT 12"                10.00       10.00

      1        0  CD-125-128       BLACK NEC 18X +- DVD-RW 7170A              0.00        0.00

      1        0  CD-116-125       BLACK SONY 16X DVD                         0.00        0.00

      1        0  MR-104-101       12-IN-ONE INTERNAL CARD READER            10.00       10.00

      1        0  CS-WATERCOOL     COOLER MASTER LIQUID COOLING KIT           0.00        0.00

      1        0  RAID-0           RAID-0 STRIPING                            0.00        0.00

      1        0  SW-120-119       WINDOW XP MEDIA CENTER 2005 LICENSE        0.00        0.00

      1        0  SW-120-134       XP MCE 2005 SP2B MEDIA VERSION 2           0.00        0.00

      1        0  SW-120-121       WINDOWS XP MEDIA CENTER 2005 COA           0.00        0.00

      1        0  CABLE-PROWIRE    PROFESSIONAL CABLE WIRING                 19.00       19.00

      1        0  PS-115-103       TAGAN 1100WATT QUAD SLI READY            250.00      250.00

      1        0  RUSH             RUSH ORDER FEE (3 BUS. DAYS)              69.00       69.00

      1        0  SC-102-144       CL SB X-FI XTREME AUDIO RETAIL            64.00       64.00

      1        0  VC-157-102       EVGA GEFORCE G8800 GTX 768MB PCI-E       230.00      230.00

      1        0  VC-157-102       EVGA GEFORCE G8800 GTX 768MB PCI-E       230.00      230.00

      1        0  BOX1             SYSTEM BOX AND FOAM                        0.00        0.00

      1        0  MB-314-101       C2D EVGA NFORCE 680I SLI 775 MB           74.00       74.00

=======  =======  ===============  ===================================  ==========  ==========

                                                                          Subtotal     4438.00

                                                                          Shipping       95.00

                                                                 Shipping Discount        0.00

                                                    Electronic Waste Recycling Fee        0.00

                                                                               Tax        0.00

                                                                             Total     4533.00

I'd be curious to know what you plan on doing differently (besides that silly neon light, of course).

Chosen,

I've checked the Cyber site a few times and I can't find an Infinity 1950 model. Can you take a look and let me know if you find it and where?

Thanks.

Go to cyberpowerpc.com, hover your mouse over Intel Desktop in the orange menu bar at the top of the screen. In the menu that pops up, hover over High-Performance Gaming PC. Infinity 1950 will be the first one on the list. Click on it, launch the configuration utility, and take it from there.

If you just click on that nVidia SLI Gaming PC link on the right hand side, the 1950 is not present on the page it goes to. Looks like someone in their web design department dropped the ball on that.


EDIT: Oh, and just to keep this thread on topic for SL, I should probably mention I finally tested it in SLI mode. I'd been avoiding it because of the dual monitor issue, but wow, all I can say is it's freaking amazing. I got well over 100FPS!!! That's with all options on in SL, 512 draw distance, and 16xQ anti-aliasing turned on in SL's profile in the nVidia control panel.

Those of you with similar rigs, I'd be curious if you can verify those results. Here's what I did. I went into SLI mode, fired up SL, and then went into Task Manager and assinged SL to run on just one processor instead of all 4. If others can get that same frame rate, maybe there's hope for the future that SL will indeed one day run at game-like speeds for everyone. It won't be long before these mega gaming rigs that are so unusual today become just commonplace hardware, after all. 'Tis the fate of all computers.

Anyway, you should have seen the FPS meter. It was really having trouble going that high. It kind of hit the right side of the stats bar really hard, bounced off a little, and then hit it again. It was like Bart Simpson with his finger on the stove burner, just kept hitting it over and over and over. God I love this machine.

I'll check the Cyber Power site as you suggest and look for the 1950. Your experience with your new PC is exactly what I was looking for. A person who has a high end machine thats working fantastically with SL.

Your description of your PC's performance in SLI mode makes me wish that I could get mine today!!!!! Can't wait!! I'll keep you updated.

Thanks again!

Chosen.

Which Mother board did you get in your 1950?

I went with the EVGA nForce 680i SLI Motherboard (last item on my spec sheet in my earlier post). It might not show up on the web site until you choose the dual 8800's. By default, the configurator thing seems to want to show ATI stuff for some silly reason.

I had wanted the Asus Stryker motherboard, as it appeared to have maybe a couple more bells & whistles, and it comes with a bunch of software, but it was backordered. The CSR I talked to said they get a few in here and there each week, but never enough to fill their orders. He suggested the EVGA, pointing out that it's a hundred bucks cheaper, and they've got plenty of them in stock. Had I stuck with the Stryker, it could have been several weeks before the machine would be built.

Interesting service story on that, by the way. When I placed the original order, I had timed everything with 2-day assembly and 2-day shipping, so that the machine would arrive the day after I was to return from a 4-day business meeting. After two business days with the order status website not updating to show any progress, I called Cyberpower, and got the scoop on the backordered motherboard. I should point out that this was on a Wednesday, which will become important in a second.

I was very polite, but I'm sure the CSR could probably tell I was less than pleased that no one had contacted me to tell me there would be a delay after I had paid extra money for rush assembly & delivery. He promised the machine would arrive the following Tuesday, 4 business days from the time of the phone call.

I was disappointed, but I figured it wasn't the end of the world. I could wait a few extra days. Imagine my surprise when Friday rolled around, and the machine arrived! It was as if the whole delay had never even happened. That was one smart CSR. He didn't over-promise or over-commit by telling me he'd be upgrading my order to one-day assembly and overnight shipping, but he did over-deliver by doing it.

That, by the way, is why I wasn't too angry about the driver problems. Of course I would have preferred everything to be in perfect working order out of the box, but at the same time, I can picture those poor guys on the assembly floor, scrambling to get the thing built and out the door in less than a day.

Is than a valid excuse? No. There's no excuse, obviously. It is an explanation I can live with though, so it's okay with me.

Anyway, whichever board you choose, just make sure it has dual x16 slots for the two 8800's, and 680i. Without that, you won't get maximum video performance. And make sure it's true x16 (electrical). There are apparently other types of x16 that only do certain things at that speed, and do other things at slower speeds. You don't want that.

Thanks so much for all of these tips. Hopefully, this will further ensure a flawless order. Although I'd love to have the PC asap,, I'll let them take their time building it, and explain this decision as not wanting any surprises when I turn it up due to a rushed time frame. I deal with computer problems every day so I definitely don't want to deal with issues on my own,, new, PC.

I'll IM you in-world and let you know how the order is going. I think I've pushed the limit of using this forum for my personal pc selection.

Thanks ever so much for your time and efforts in helping me choose a new,,, "SL Portal"

Yeah, we should probably let this thread die if no one else has any more SL-related comments. I would like to hear if anyone else was able to duplicate my FPS results with SLI though, so I hope someone will reply with a story or two about that.

Also, if anyone has an answer to my taskbar/plug configuration question from earlier, please let me know. Thanks.

Have fun with your new PC when it arrives, Carolyn. I hope you enjoy it as much as I'm enjoying mine.

FYI, those of you with the type of rigs we've been discussing, you have got to try what I just tried. Can you say 175 FPS? Yes, 175 FPS!!!

Go to this pageand downoad the FirstLook viewer. Among other things, it contains LL's first experiment with multi core support. I thought I was getting good results with the standard viewer, but this is unbelievable. I’m getting a pretty steady 145FPS, with peaks up to about 175!!! And I’m not even in SLI mode.

The poor FPS meter bar can’t even register. It just keeps flashing red on the right hand side, as if to scream “Slow down, ya bastard! I don’t go that high!”

Keep in mind the FirstLook viewer is still highly experimental, so don't expect it to be without bugs (not that the regular viewer is anything close to bug free, of course). If you find any, be sure and report them, so they can finish this viewer build ASAP. They're monitoring all FirstLook bug reports very closely.

The only glitch I’ve seen in this current version is that trees are moving way too fast. Instead of their normal sway in the wind, they’re pulsating back and forth pretty fast, at a speed of around 4 cycles per second. It’s actually pretty funny. Looks like all the little animals who might live in the trees are, well, you know, “If this tree’s a rockin’, don’t come a knockin’.”

Hopefully they'll fix the trees, but if that's the worst thing that's happening in this viewer, I can certainly live with it. That frame rate is sick.