When Did Land Get So Expensive????
|
cHex Losangeles
Registered User
Join date: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 370
|
01-07-2007 08:53
From: Morwen Bunin Well, I use the word greed... and no, not because I can not effort anything in this market. I have choisen last week to buy twice lands at highly over rated prices (one 512 plot for 15000 and another for 10000). Because I wanted it and I can effort it... but seeing L$-signs in the eyes of the seller. I believe you purchased my First Land from me for 15k, Morwen. I had resolved to always put on a price on my home in SL. Since I liked my location, and wasn't particularly looking to leave, I priced my home for enough to purchase a similar lot elsewhere (adjacent to protected Linden right-of-way in a low-lag sim) and to make the effort of searching for such a parcel, terra-forming it, and setting up house there worth my while. I was surprised to be out looking so soon! I readily admit to being motivated solely by greed; only the prospect of such a profit would get me to give up what I had. By the same token, knowing I would never sell at a price of L$9999999, my greed had me keep the price affordable. I suppose only your greed for more land near your home could motivate you to spend such an outrageous price per m2.
|
Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
|
01-07-2007 10:31
From: Greyed Corrimal First off if you are going to quite me then do not snip the quote to make it out of context. Thanks. Secondly you do realize that "protected" markets are often the ones that have the worst problems when it comes to equitable distribution of goods and services. It's well documented (again, "Thomas Sowell" in Google, he's an economics professor and a prolific web presence) that when a market is "protected" it often leads to an extreme shortage of goods, normally at the expense of the people it is supposed to "protect". It is no coincidence that the freer a nation's market is the lower it's unemployment rate is and the higher it's output per capita is. So saying yo prefer some protected markets is not a badge of honor, it is a badge of ignorance. Again, define "greed". Excessive pricing by who's standards? By definition in a free market the only excessive pricing is the one that goes unpurchased. It's just that simple. As I said before it is an extremely common mistake that people make when they say "That item is not worth that much". Doubly so when it is uttered about something in an MMOG. They forget the final two words every time. "That item is not worth that much, to me." They think they are the beginning and end of the market instead of one, often statistically insignificant, data point within the much larger collective of individuals who engages in voluntary transactions. That's the market. So if someone, somewhere, values that item, whatever it is, at the posted price and purchases it then by definition the price is NOT excessive and thus, in turn, the individual posting it was not greedy, just smart. It has been my experience that people who use the word "Greed" when it comes to markets are only showing their own envy of other's assets and their own inability to perform to the same level. Entire post quoted to keep context. I totally disagree with the assumed relevance of first life market protection. Here's why. I have 14 sims, and a choice: protect the market and those things that make my land compelling, or... not. I want a warm community, not a steaming pile of 'land as commodity' lying there like yesterday's pork rinds. While the speculators are off playing World of Warcraft and my now-desolate property values dive. No thanks, we have the mainland for that. So the 'land resale' feature is shut off in my sims. If someone wishes to move a parcel I hook them up with someone on my waiting list. Does that cause shortages? No. *I* cause the land shortage, by not willy-nilly buying more sims to meet demand. I turn away about 10 people a day. Because I'm not a fool. Markets are brainless, and I could ride the current irrational exuberance up to 30 or 40 sims pretty quick if I so chose. And then if demand didn't hold, I'd lose maybe half of the sims I'd pick up in 1 Q 2007 and stain my business reputation permanently. Dumb. Move. The issue is exactly one of farsightedness in business -vs- stupidity. I never made a promise to 'the people' to not have land shortages. In turn, 'the people' made no promise to bail my ass out in a market crash. Protected market policies have been key to my success, key to the shockingly low land pricing I've been able to maintain (presently $L 4 per meter), and key to the incredibly compelling content found in my sims. I've got artisans and scripters, clothiers and architects, instead of slumlords and Fast Eddie's. Anyone who really wants in only needs one virtue: Patience.
_____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon!
|
Kratax Skillman
Warrior and Dragon
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 123
|
01-14-2007 08:42
Island prices are not cheap either. I mean with US$295 per month half of a RL appartment rent can be paid or total of RL car monthly payment. In time, like in 40 years, it will be US$295*12*40 which is US$3540 a year and US$141,600 a 40 years. Plus interest missed.
And in the end, islands are not too big. I have walked around a few islands, and it doesn't take too long. Also you can clearly see all the possible neighbouring islands.
_____________________
Keep forests as forests
|
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
|
01-14-2007 09:01
your not joking about land prices. Onthe mainland some casino owner is blackmailing otehr in a sim but asking 5 times the going rate for land that not even ment for casino traffic!.Unreal these times onthe mainland....WHen i saw the price this group was asking i just fainted.....
|
John Horner
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 626
|
01-14-2007 10:49
I do a little bit of land trading now and again but it is more akin to a hobby than a business. Providing I cover tier costs and make enough for a first life meal for my wife and I, that is okay.
Recently I acquired around 1/3rd of a new class 5 sim on the old continent. Good first class land flat enough to build on without too much fuss, but nicely landscaped thus avoiding the more usual 4096 flat square Island plots.
I usually always like a quick trade so the last two plots were sold of to full time land traders, where upon I got pressured to join a group of land traders complaining about the lack of land and high prices being charged. Fair enough I thought, after all SL is only entertainment and being aware that some people can be tempted to spend more than they can afford, I went along with it.
But.... I had a few days off from my first life job (getting over a bad cold and had lost my voice) so I did a bit of research. I discovered that this was a day when nearly 60 sims are being brought on line and the main reason for the current high land values are the stupid amounts sims are going in auctions, again mainly being driven by full time land traders.
So I resigned from this group, no point in trying to push water uphill and defy the free market. But is land overpriced? To that question I don't think people mind paying up to 30/40 SL per square meter for prime quality water access land especially in a class 5 sim but I have seen 4096 square meter plots going for upwards of $L350,000....that is silly money
|
Kratax Skillman
Warrior and Dragon
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 123
|
01-14-2007 11:30
Yes, there are many rich families that buy for themselves or to their children things that seem to have insane prices for normal players. And then of course there are business people that can cover the cost from the profits. Real world is so big a place, that there are lots of rich people, who can buy expensive land.
Of course Second Life came into international general show only last year, so SL is now and still quite hot - while being modern virtual world too. I think that is also what makes the prices go up. Some time in the future might happen that prices come down because things develop and because there might start to be some competition.
And there is the fact, that there are not as many active players as in Wow, maybe partly because land costs so much. If I played other games, then that whole world would be "mine" (though fixed), but in SL building things and forming land is a big issue. So when SL players look the prices of SL, they look the land prices and the tier fees. They then see that big plots have huge prices and that there is not much mainland available in reasonable prices anyway, which then might put the players thinking twice what they are going to do.
_____________________
Keep forests as forests
|
Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
|
01-14-2007 11:38
Have the land prices peaked though? I've only been in SL since the first week of December. I bought a 512m plot for just under L$5000 the day after I joined. A week later, all the 512m plots in the same sim were at just under L$10,000 - they'd all doubled in a week. But since then, the prices have not gone up at all. I've been watching, out of curiousity mostly, and in the sim that I call home there are typically over a dozen 512m plots for sale. The average price seems to be about L$9500.
So, after 3 or 4 weeks without any substantial increases, I'm wondering if the prices have started to stabilize at this level?
-Atashi
|
Simstick Boram
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2006
Posts: 87
|
01-14-2007 12:39
This is a typical discussion of new small business people in RL.
|
Kratax Skillman
Warrior and Dragon
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 123
|
01-14-2007 12:45
From: Simstick Boram This is a typical discussion of new small business people in RL. What do you mean by that? That big business people are so wealthy, that they can buy everything and then sell it with profit to residents and to small business people, who should not complain, because they have all the same possibilities to become big business people? Or that it takes a big business people to buy an island or lots of land, so they do not need to discuss the matter, which makes the discussion typical small business people discussion?
_____________________
Keep forests as forests
|
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
|
01-14-2007 16:15
Yes and now bigland owners are in their alts in newbie doing their same business. Thinking people are non the wiser! 5000l for 512? mature or PG?!
|
Beau Daniels
Registered User
Join date: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 17
|
01-14-2007 16:20
The Land Prices Are Outrages & It is because of the Lack Of First Land LL is giving us, there not giving us my First Land because they are so far backed up on it but I think they should Hire 2 or 3 lindes who's only job is is to handle the land
|
Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
|
01-14-2007 16:59
I wonder if the lack of First Land is because of lack of manpower at LL, rather than a lack of 'land'?
I was walking around earlier today and I found three 512m parcels that were named "First Land" and the description was "Land For The Landless". They were all owned by Governor Linden. And none of them were for sale. The 'claimed' dates were in March and April of 2006. (I'm assuming that's the date that Gov. Linden retook ownership of the land. If not then my mistake.) This is in an established region in the southern continent. So there is land out there. It's just not for sale.
So have they 'forgotten' that this land exists? With the various database and search issues, maybe they really have 'lost' track of it. I'd think it would take only a few minutes to go and flag all three plots 'for sale'. And this is just one corner of a single region. I'll bet there are all kinds of 512m plots in older sims that have been reclaimed or abandoned, that have never been put back up for sale.
-Atashi
|
Alan Ajax
Registered User
Join date: 9 Aug 2006
Posts: 38
|
01-14-2007 17:14
There is NO reason for someone to pay the high mainland prices right now. It's not about a shortage of land. Go look at all the mainland for sale. It's all about what the market will bear....and right now people are paying it.
Tired of paying out the nose? Want to see mainland prices go down? Here's the solution... Rent or buy land on Private islands. Why not? It's MUCH cheaper and MUCH better. You get more land for the money, you have more control (on most islands), more privacy, you can find them zoneed if you want or you can find them unzoned if you want (just like mainland) AND 90% of them are lag free.
If everyone would just stop paying these ridiculous prices for mainland eventually the land barons WILL start getting nervous and start decreasing land prices. It would happen, I assure you. Why? because no one will continue to do somthing that LOOSES them money and thats what would happen. They will start loosing money because of having to pay high tier on land that is not moving and not generating income. I know...I've seen it happen... i've bought and sold enough land and watched the market enough that I've seen it happen once before when land sales started only slowing down. I saw the prices drop from 8/sq.m to 5/sq.m virtually overnight because people stopped buying for a few weeks.
If you are buying mainland and paying these prices, you are contributing to the problem.
If you want to see it stop then stop buying mainland. Remember, right now it's all about what the market will bear.
|
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
|
01-14-2007 17:22
When I see a piece of land that was forsale at 2000l 6 months ago for 512 and now is going for 10,000l It just makes you wonder the mindset of these totally miss guided, totally out of their sl and rl minds.........
|
Kratax Skillman
Warrior and Dragon
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 123
|
01-15-2007 10:29
From: Usagi Musashi When I see a piece of land that was forsale at 2000l 6 months ago for 512 and now is going for 10,000l It just makes you wonder the mindset of these totally miss guided, totally out of their sl and rl minds......... Maybe all people do not have the time or willingness to search for more affordable land, so they just buy the expensive land that they find easily. But what if some people do not know that there are cheaper land too, then they might think that SL is bad "game", because they get only that small plot with that much of money. Of course SL gives you much better experience, if you spend some time to find more land with the same price. It is not as fun to sit in a 512sqm plot, if you could have gotten a 1024sqm plot with the same price somewhere else. I have noticed that the privately owned island parcel renting prices vary too. Some cost more than others, so also there you can think will you take 512sqm or 1024sqm with the same amount of money.
_____________________
Keep forests as forests
|
Alan Ajax
Registered User
Join date: 9 Aug 2006
Posts: 38
|
01-15-2007 14:04
From: Kratax Skillman I have noticed that the privately owned island parcel renting prices vary too. Some cost more than others, so also there you can think will you take 512sqm or 1024sqm with the same amount of money.
You're not going to find a 512 lot on a PI for 10,000. You'll only see a rip off like that on mainland. You know, I even used to be a land Baron at one time. But, this is so ridiculous I decided enough is enough. When prices got so high I sold all my mainland (except for only one commercial spot that gets lots of traffic ) and moved to a PI. Eventually, I decided to buy a PI. Consider this, a PI (even with the price increase) sells for $1,675 USD. A mainland sim is selling at auction right now for over $3,000 USD. It's the same size and with a PI you get less lag, more control and you really do own it. Now....why would ANYONE pay almost twice as much for a mainland sim? I'll tell you why. The only people buying mainland sims are land barons sectioning it off and selling it for inflated prices and making a buck. Again, i'll say.... if you want this insanity to stop then stop buying mainland at these ridiculous prices. How long do you think a land baron will hold on to a full sim of land and pay $195 per month with no one buying it? Not long.....eventually he/she will cut thier loses and sell the land cheap just to get out of the tier fees. Think about it.
|
Musicteacher Rampal
Registered User
Join date: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 824
|
01-15-2007 14:37
From: Atashi Toshihiko I wonder if the lack of First Land is because of lack of manpower at LL, rather than a lack of 'land'?
I was walking around earlier today and I found three 512m parcels that were named "First Land" and the description was "Land For The Landless". They were all owned by Governor Linden. And none of them were for sale. The 'claimed' dates were in March and April of 2006. (I'm assuming that's the date that Gov. Linden retook ownership of the land. If not then my mistake.) This is in an established region in the southern continent. So there is land out there. It's just not for sale.
So have they 'forgotten' that this land exists? With the various database and search issues, maybe they really have 'lost' track of it. I'd think it would take only a few minutes to go and flag all three plots 'for sale'. And this is just one corner of a single region. I'll bet there are all kinds of 512m plots in older sims that have been reclaimed or abandoned, that have never been put back up for sale.
-Atashi "land for the landless" was what first land was called when I joined back in 2004. You put in a request for your land on the website and LL reserved and assigned a plot to you and you had to buy it for $512L within 10 days to claim it. It would be nice if they would do this again. At least that way they knew what the "actual" demand for first land was rather than guessing based on the number of new premium accounts. However I think, no matter what LL is saying, the actual reason for a lack of land is that all their new equipment is going to fill island requests.
|
Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
|
01-15-2007 15:36
From: Kratax Skillman Maybe all people do not have the time or willingness to search for more affordable land, so they just buy the expensive land that they find easily.
But what if some people do not know that there are cheaper land too, then they might think that SL is bad "game", because they get only that small plot with that much of money. Of course SL gives you much better experience, if you spend some time to find more land with the same price. It is not as fun to sit in a 512sqm plot, if you could have gotten a 1024sqm plot with the same price somewhere else.
I have noticed that the privately owned island parcel renting prices vary too. Some cost more than others, so also there you can think will you take 512sqm or 1024sqm with the same amount of money. Since LLabs does not care about freebis accounts and or new account (or alts ) buying first land then turning around and selling off the land for a stupid amounts of money might be one reason. ANother reason is just that they don`t know. They reach for the little blue $ sign inthe righthand corner of the the view pick BUY Linden Dollars . ( "OH I nneed 5000l for this little land how much oh ok) its just a game right they think........... Might be another reason. Prifatley own island can get worse with the island owners being really untrusting. who really knows.But what we do know LLabs caresless now then they did when I started back in 2004 
|
Maximillian Desoto
Max's Landfall Bar & Dock
Join date: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 323
|
01-15-2007 15:51
From: Alan Ajax You're not going to find a 512 lot on a PI for 10,000. You'll only see a rip off like that on mainland.
Consider this, a PI (even with the price increase) sells for $1,675 USD. A mainland sim is selling at auction right now for over $3,000 USD. It's the same size and with a PI you get less lag, more control and you really do own it. Now....why would ANYONE pay almost twice as much for a mainland sim? I'll tell you why. The only people buying mainland sims are land barons sectioning it off and selling it for inflated prices and making a buck. Again, i'll say.... if you want this insanity to stop then stop buying mainland at these ridiculous prices. How long do you think a land baron will hold on to a full sim of land and pay $195 per month with no one buying it? Not long.....eventually he/she will cut thier loses and sell the land cheap just to get out of the tier fees. Think about it. Well, you don't actually OWN a PI, either. It's not like you can take it home with you if/when LL pulls the plug. You still pay tier for it, and US$100 more per month for a PI. How long will a land baron hold on to a PI with no one buying/renting, paying $295 per month? And as a mainland owner sells land, they could tier down to lower their monthly tier costs. An owner of a PI is stuck with $295 per month, and is either capable of paying for it, or has to rent out enough of it to cover HIS tier. Yes people are buying mainland to resell, and until/if/when LL starts putting up more land, prices will remain high. And you know what? People who need/want land bad enough will buy it. Shortages cause price inflation, market forces in action. I have no dog in this fight, I have my land and happy with what and where it is. I do wish I had bought some more land back in November; then I'd be a high-flying land baron!! <g> Max
|
Shean Boyd
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jan 2007
Posts: 9
|
01-15-2007 23:36
Saw some new land yesterday for the first time since joining. Teleported there like crazy. Are full of ppl flying around like crazy over 12 or so plots. Some cheering most cursing.
For some odd reason a single lot in the corner was left alone. And I wandered up to it and simply bought it.
Still amazed that it wasent taken since nearly 30 ppl were running about. *Yay for me*
Today when I logged in about half of the lots were for sale for 15000 each. Sale signs allready up.
|
Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
|
01-16-2007 01:25
From: Shean Boyd Saw some new land yesterday for the first time since joining. Teleported there like crazy. Are full of ppl flying around like crazy over 12 or so plots. Some cheering most cursing.
For some odd reason a single lot in the corner was left alone. And I wandered up to it and simply bought it.
Still amazed that it wasent taken since nearly 30 ppl were running about. *Yay for me*
Today when I logged in about half of the lots were for sale for 15000 each. Sale signs allready up. Right. That shows you who's buying land. The next question is, who's buying at THAT price? But congratulations for you!
|