When Did Land Get So Expensive????

Check in About Land. Look for a covenant; if there is one, you're on a private island. I don't recall the entire menu off the top of my head, but I think you can also check the estate owner for your land; if it's mainland that'll be Gov Linden.

Which people?

I'm interested in checking out this individual. Being a naïve newbie, unfortunately my SL memory goes back only a few weeks.
So how do I do a search on bidders?

And thanks for the land stats. Very informative, and appreciated.

Broccoli is obviously a genius. Any Lindens following this thread, take note of this glorious hog-whacking suggestion and implement it ASAP!

Meanwhile, I will continue the slow and unpleasant task of waiting for First Land.

History repeats itself.

Those who were here in mid to late 2004 will remember land prices were as bad or worse than they are now.

Prime real estate was being bought and sold at L$30-L$35 sqm.

That didn't last but for a few months. There was a steep price drop which culminated a few months ago where you could easily purchase parcels as cheap as L$3 sqm.

If I remember correctly, the steep price drop was precipitated when LL flooded the market with sims intended for 'first land'.

For several months now first land has been extremely difficult to find, so I assume that is where the problem lies. It's a seller's market, no doubt.

A very nice Linden explained this to me the other nite, an island owner my chose to divide his island into smaller parcels (usually 16) he may sell these parcels to individuals but they cannot pay their tier directly to Second Life, but must pay it to the owner who in turn each month makes his entire island tier payment. Most send tier money to a private paypal account. However here is the catch, once you buy one of these subdivided parcels they are marked "not for resale", but go back to the owner of the island in the event you forfeit either in not making tier payments or some rule infraction they have listed in the covenant.

So, just say hypothetically an island owner lost his job, and his credit cards got over drawn, etc etc etc, and he stopped making these tier payments to SL, the land would be taken back by Gov. Linden, you would be out your parcel.

So as i see it, its basically a fancy rental, that you put down a large payment on and pay tier at the smaller parcel rate, which is higher than the discounted rate the island owner gets for owning a region, sometimes by double.

As for what anyone chooses to pay for land right now, that certainly is your business, but those of us that have been in awhile have seen in the last 2 months land go up almost 800% and its just nuts, i paid around $2800 for 512's back in Feb 06. To me it would be like paying $37 bucks for a loaf of bread. I too think the prices will fall fairly soon and drastically, Lindens tend to become alarmed when the balance is off by this much, i seriously didn't see this coming nor did they, with so much available mainland for sale.

Thinking i'll wait a bit before considering any future land investments.

Not all that genius a plan since a 512 plot is worth more than $20. At current rates you'd have to charge 3 months bill for it to be more than the value of the land and who's to say if in a month's time even that won't be enough.

Of course there would be quite a significant added risk if you had to hold the land for that long and hope it was worth more at the end.

About 15 minutes after I posted and bemoaned my landless state today, around 10 or more plots of First Land suddenly appeared in Search. Shocker.

Not knowing what the hell I am doing, of course I immediately purchased a $512L/512 sm plot. All plots were gone within 5 minutes.

- FYI

Congrats on finding first land. Enjoy .

There is a page showing compelted auctions, at this page. If you click on one of them, it will show you who bid what for it.

Sadly, the completed auctions page doesn't seem to go back as far as it used to, and in fact all of the the full sims auctions have dropped off the list now.

However, there was one name prominent during the bidding for all of the larger auctions, who at the very least has connections to a very famous land baron who successfully cornered the supply of full sims the last time supply dropped off.

I'm afraid however that I couldn't possibly name any names, it's almost certainly in breech of the forums TOS.

You're welcome for the stats.

On that list, I saw a 4608 sq m plot going for $600 (dollars not L$).

Madness. Utter madness.

Broccoli

In fairness, I think somebody thought they were bidding in L$ for that one!

If that's really the case... someone's got a nasty shock coming...

Broccoli

Wouldn't be the first time somebody's done that - why do you think they separated the L$ and US$ auctions out, as well as the many warnings to be careful about what you bid for, that obviously people don't read.

I believe in situations like this, the Lindens will void the auction if you ask nicely, maybe subject to a fee. Might be worth keeping an eye open on the auctions page to see if it comes up again.

I am a land buyer and seller.

I buy land and parcel it up and sell it in small plots. I am carrying on a legitimate business and I have to put up with griefers like this. I agree land prices have climbed rapidly recently but is it the fault of people like me.

No it is because there is a shortage of land and that is what drives prices up and because of that I am being harrased by a self righteous little fool like Dagmon Zhukovsky.

Following is a message I have IM'd to this griefer. To view the mess this person has made, go to Montezuma 175,132,116



[7:33] Femina Matahari: Why have you boycotted my land
[7:34] Femina Matahari: I am about to report you for harrassement to the Lindens
[7:36] Femina Matahari: You have placed signs on land you have purchased from me and are now offering for sale at 29999 lindens for 896 meters.
[7:37] Femina Matahari: I have caused you no harm and yet you are intruding into a free enterprise business.
[7:38] Femina Matahari: You accuse people of crap which I find offensive.
[7:39] Femina Matahari: You say people cannot afford 10,000 lindens for a 512 meter plot
[7:40] Femina Matahari: Yet all my land in this area is for sale at 8500 Lindens per 512 meter plot.
[7:41] Femina Matahari: So you are harrassing me without cause while trying to rip people off who wish to buy, youreself.
[7:42] Femina Matahari: You have blighted the land with large stupid signs insinuating I am some sort of cheat.
[7:43] Femina Matahari: Have a happy Christmas you chose a very good time of year to attack someone.
[7:43] Femina Matahari: It would be nice if you stopped acting like a griefer.
[7:46] Femina Matahari: I find you pathetic.
[7:50] Femina Matahari: By the way check the blogs I have pasted this to the forums so others will know how to deal with you.

Femina Matahari

I've seen signs put out by the same griefer. I especially like how he suggests people should boycott land, because "it has to get better soon" and "something has to happen", without actually suggesting what will happen to make it better.

The irony is that his land is set for sale at prices much higher than any legitimate land seller, which leads me to believe he's trying to coerce sellers into buying his land at massively overinflated prices to get rid of the signs much like the Mr Lees Greater Hong Kong rubbish is aimed at land owners.

I doubt it.

If you do the math for 4608 sq.m. and US$ 600, it comes to L$ 35 / sq.m. at current exchange rates. That's less than 3 times the current rock-bottom price of land, not 270 times or so, as it would be if someone accidentally bid using the wrong currency.

If it's a particulary desirable location, perhaps in one of the historical old sims, or particularly one of the very few zoned mainland sims like Brown, it could plausibly go for that price.

I remember seeing a small plot in Brown go at auction for L$ 40 / sq.m... and that was some weeks ago, before the recent price surge... and that auction was denominated in L$.

Also remember, auctions use maximum bids and proxy bidding. That means for a parcel to sell at auction for a particular price, at least two bidders have to think it's worth very nearly that exact price.

I think it's somewhat ironic that both sides are complaining about the other side's choice of signage considering that both have signs that are meant to attract attention and be impossible to miss and dare I say that it's even hypocritical but that's just my L$.02

And that is why I against a complete free market and I am very happy that over here in The Netherlands certain parts of the market are protected to prevent what happens currently to land prices in SL.
Linden should in my opinion act and protect the market from insane high prices.

And for some greed is a reason.

Morwen

Now why? would LL be concerned with overpriced land? If someone wants it bad enough someone will buy it. (Question: Where do those Lindens ultimately come from?..A: They are bought from LL)

If the person selling it, is asking an 'insane' amount he prolly won't sell it, but he still has to pay land tier fees on it.. (Question: Who makes money either way? A: Take a wild guess! (LL))

People seem to forget alot that this 'game' is a BUSINESS of Linden Labs..Businesses exist to make money. So why would LL cut its own throat and piss off paying people (obviously the person selling the land isn't playing on a 'free' account) by regulating land?

You will be alot better off when you start realizing the reason LL run the place is to make money. Anything that will cost them money, they obviously aren't going to do. (And why should they?)

Sure... SL is an business for Linden. That may be obvious...

But business is not only about making money. There is also something about keeping customers or future customers happy... even those customers that don't spend a lot of money on you.

Doing business only to make money will get your company killed in the shortest time.

If I would think of my job in way of only making money, I would not be half as successfull as I am now. Business is also a lot about making new or potential customers feel good.
Sure in your vision LL makes money on the existing (long time) customers of them... but if new customers will not get their way to develope as well (buying land in this matter), they will leave in the end... as dissapointed customers. Dissapointed customers is bad advertisement.... no good at all (specially not with the stories about SL going around).

And that is were protection of the market can hit in.

Morwen.

Having just done some land-shopping, i think the most substantiative point here is abuse of the "classified" system by renters, actively masquerading as sellers. There should be a rental-only section and sales-only section: even RL estate agents(us:realtors) aren't stupid enough to mix the two...

First off if you are going to quite me then do not snip the quote to make it out of context. Thanks.

Secondly you do realize that "protected" markets are often the ones that have the worst problems when it comes to equitable distribution of goods and services. It's well documented (again, "Thomas Sowell" in Google, he's an economics professor and a prolific web presence) that when a market is "protected" it often leads to an extreme shortage of goods, normally at the expense of the people it is supposed to "protect". It is no coincidence that the freer a nation's market is the lower it's unemployment rate is and the higher it's output per capita is. So saying yo prefer some protected markets is not a badge of honor, it is a badge of ignorance.



Again, define "greed". Excessive pricing by who's standards? By definition in a free market the only excessive pricing is the one that goes unpurchased. It's just that simple. As I said before it is an extremely common mistake that people make when they say "That item is not worth that much". Doubly so when it is uttered about something in an MMOG. They forget the final two words every time. "That item is not worth that much, to me." They think they are the beginning and end of the market instead of one, often statistically insignificant, data point within the much larger collective of individuals who engages in voluntary transactions. That's the market. So if someone, somewhere, values that item, whatever it is, at the posted price and purchases it then by definition the price is NOT excessive and thus, in turn, the individual posting it was not greedy, just smart.

It has been my experience that people who use the word "Greed" when it comes to markets are only showing their own envy of other's assets and their own inability to perform to the same level.

Ahh... that explains why the market for Linden land is so balanced and well supplying for everyone who has the need to buy this product.

Also "protected markets' can be a great stimulance for a market to develope and to get balanced again when the market has been distrubed for whatever reason. Read Prof. Heertje (welknown Dutch economist) on this matter. You could use Google for that, but I would rather refer to one of his books on the matter.


Well, I use the word greed... and no, not because I can not effort anything in this market. I have choisen last week to buy twice lands at highly over rated prices (one 512 plot for 15000 and another for 10000). Because I wanted it and I can effort it... but seeing L$-signs in the eyes of the seller.

Guys the land is somewhere cheap and somewhere epensive,its like the real world and when past some time the prices are high or lower ,its like the real world !!!!
















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