Virtual BBB?

Again, I don't disagree whith what you are saying.. but what IS here atm is tend amount to the Wild West.. any business worth its salts will keep good records, I keep copies of ANY chat, IM's, emails, contracts etc for every client. Most potential conflicts are easily avoided when I drop them copies of those historic 'chats', more of a reminder of what they DID say, not what they thought they said.

My biggest beef, is there are too many people condeming the efforts of those that are trying to make a difference. The SLBB hosts a raft of business related information and hold seminars etc... getting ppls to read and act upon them, isn't the job of any organisation, but of those that act like business ppls, but have no real foundation. Thats no slight on them, for some part its the relaxed way in which business is and can be done in this platform, and a part of human nature.

It's more an emphasis on WHAT are people going to do to change this? Being negative isn't acheiving anything, if you don't think one or more existing groups aren't for you, start your own, there are no limits to the amount of organisations. If you are waiting for some Marshall to ride into town, then you will wait forever. Certainly don't wait for LL to do anything, because they have already expressed that they will not. Being negative is an easy stance to take.

I hear what you are saying and understand where you are coming from AWM, but I am not being negative. I don't condemn the efforts of others. I am actually quite neutral on this issue. I don't belong to any Business Bureau Groups, or seek help from any. When i shop in SL i operate a personal policy of 'Let the buyer beware' and apply it to myself. I don't often make a big purchase, but if i do, i make it from a large and established business, not a corner stall in a half empty mall, and i read any information they give out with the vendor machine or the store carefully. If i have a problem with what they do, i ask them to help me, and fortunately, in all the more substantial purchases i have made, where anything has gone wrong, I have always been treated well and fairly.

I sell items that i make myself in a small shop on land i rent. I haven't had any complaints so far from my customers but when/if the day comes i will act honourably, and if there is a dispute i will give the customer the benefit of the doubt and replace the goods or refund the Linden Dollars. No dispute over dollars is worth any slur on my reputation as a trader.

What i am saying is, i don't encounter the 'wild west' you describe. I buy from good people and hope that i sell as good people. If people choose to go into the wild west side of trade in SL and put out large amounts of L$ to businesses they don't know and don't trust then i think that is reckless of them. If I did that i would accept that i made a bad judgment call and go on my way wiser. I probably would tell my friends about it to warn them, but i wouldn't name and shame here, or join a group to get them blacklisted. I am not waiting for a Marshall to ride into town.. nobody died...

Perhaps i am just more passive than the average shopper.. I don't know. perhaps i am a good little subbie after all!!


imogen

imogen, your analogies of how you buy, and how you sell... state that you buy from larger established sellers, yet state that you have a small shop that you sell from. Why shouldn't the small shop have the same degree of status if they are a good business, without being tarred by the same analogy you put forward? Perhaps accreditation would go someway towards that?

I don't like the 'members only' style organisations that build some sort of 'protection', I do however welcome having to prove that you have a minimum standard of trading, irrespective of size, that you work by, and one that offers to share experiences, pitfalls, education etc freely in order to make SL a better place. It's never going to be perfect, but neither is RL. I firmly believe that the starting point for any organisation is not to throw open its doors to just anyone and be even seen as handing out membership for L$'s, but to have to prove fully that they have acheived a set minimum standard.

The business I am in, is purely custom work, once our product is made, it can't be sold to any other customer/client. For some of the larger contracts we do insist on a deposit to minimise our risk, and in all cases, irrespective of contract value or size and for whatever client, we always excercise the same standard. One thing I do understand though, is from the clients perspective, why would they want to part with a deposit, before they see any goods? The simple answer is, we are active on many fronts to help make SL a better place, and yes, belonging to the SLBB is for us a demonstration of that, our reputation also preceeds us. However, simply belonging to an organisation isn't enough, we are very active within that organisation, should it prove to be no more than a 'members only' style, that only 'give orders', then we shall leave. We act in a professional way and like to feel that even the smallest of companies/organisations/single traders can approach us and we can assist in anyway we can, without appearing to be intimadating.

one was up and running a while back. whether its still there remains to be seen. ill ask my inword kid about it as she did belong to it.

This is the sign of the times, and alot of truth within it. Why such actions was allowed and that person give the freedom to hurt people REPS etc. Is still unthinkable. But then again LLABS is no longer saying they will support some issues. But then again Some wild and out of control leader is still doing its thing. WHY? Because they are given all possible rights and outright control without any recourse of thinking!






This i can believe.............

Thank you For reading

Usagi

AWM you have a very good point there

I was however talking about the large purchases i make, where i cant afford to lose perhaps thousands of L$ i put into a vendor. The most expensive item in my little shop is, as far as i recall, 200 linden. Probably why i don't even break even, but i am not doing it to make money. ....fortunately.

however, i wouldn't mind being reviewed and accredited by a reputable organisation, should one approach me. I would look into their organisation before subscribing to it, obviously. That is positive. I would hope that their standards were allied with my own. I don't think i want to be part of an organisation that publishes lists of rogue traders, since as has been discussed here, some do. I don't know if yours does.

And please, i don't tar anyone.. 'wild west' wasn't my term.. I just look around carefully, judge by what i find and what i feel, and if, as i say, i get burned, i chalk it up to experience.

Imogen

There is one running in fact is been running for 6+ months now slbb.biz you can do just that and of course some people hate it and try to spread gossip and rumours, some pay no attention and some go and see what its all about

Up to you to judge all I know is I spent many months watching as they evolved. The first version I didn't go for as it was too flawed I finally decided that they were evolving into something democratic about 3 months ago. The minute it turns into a dictatorship and an organizationn that is corrupt I will be one of the first to flee lol however at present it does appear to be shaping into something that is decent and provides sorely needed services.

We have one guy who hates us for all the right reasons actually and has vowed to give us a hard time as long as he breaths to the point where he has either himself on an alt or sent people I guess to run through our sims screaming at the top of his lungs

We have one or two people who dont understand that nature of what this type of organization does and stands for (fair trade and a place for people who can be merchant or consumer) to get help in resolving a dispute to the best of the ability that the sytem will allow and if they are made aware of something that turns out to be a valid scam (keyword being valid and there are ways to find out if stuff is valid even though people think not) then a warning is issued just like the real world type BBB does) Anyhow its a step in the right direction.

We have maybe a few who know what these types of places organizations do but hate them with a passion (dunno maybe they had problems in rl with such organizations can't be second life related as its not even a year old yet). Organized business is not for everyong and this is fine just dont know what you dont understand and clearly we have people who don't understand the basic concept of what groups like this do. No we dont pay protection money but we do pay for the organization to stay affloat with website hosting and paying for sims etc to have an inworld presence. We are expanding into classes which are free to the public on business and heck anything else you can think of. Other things are happening and its free to the public. I dunno why someone would hate a group of people who put spare time into helping people who feel they have been scammed deal with issues, educate new business owners on how to operate a business properly in second life, allow people to network if they so choose among other like minded people or just be an ear for those who are upset about the way things are in general with relations to how business work. Yet of course all organizations like this are "evil" and should not exist. I do hope that the person bearing the brunt of the cost doesn't give up if she does maybe one of us will step up and offer to take the cost on ourselves. One thing is for sure I have seen these things started before and end in nothing but I never jump in with both feet before watching a good long while. I'm simply not that impuslive a person I want to see how people deal with things in all situations. how they deal with making human error if they take input etc etc if they are capable of change if they find they have taken a wrong path. So far what I see is a person and group of people who want to learn and grow and evolve into something and will work on issues that cause problems and work to resolve them. I have yet to find a hard head in this group of people I see the opposite eyes open and ears open. So when someone bashes with this organization and spews information which simply is not true and in most case a complete lie it drives home the fact further that this organization or one like it NEEDS to exist and further solififies the reasons as to why I decided to subject myself to this kind of stuff.

If one must be hated let it be for trying to do something good rather then greifing or scamming.

anyhow for the moment slbb is the one functioning oganization that will do as is being requested in some of these threads. Please realize though they wont just take your word for it they do in fact investigate it and this takes time to get truth and not fiction.

I do not know why you are allowed to advertise a fee-based 'service' in residents answers. Hopefully this will be moved to the circular file soon.


The founder put me through 45 days of harassment and then retracted the entire thing. Never once making an apology for the stress and nonsense. The only reason she retracted the post was because I made such a fuss. Those that role over and take it are screwed.



Head in sand. I have responded with information regarding the major problems I had with this organization in May of this year and you and the rest of the fanbois refuse to ackowledge it even happened (thats why I have the facts in my blog). Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


Because this group, less than a year old, has already abused it's percieved power in SL, Posted a Huge slander display in the lobby of their SL offices and started a blacklist.


Your cult-like zeal is scary. I have the logs from the ordeal with this group and the retraction from them in my blogg. Take a read. It was a long, hard process to get these people to people to even investigate the claim because one of their board members made it. After a one-day 'investigation' they then had to admit there was no merit at all in the claim and they retracted it but left it in the complaint section of their website for several more weeks and told me they would not remove it. You may claim none of this happened but my documentation is intack. When someone from this orgainzation (perhaps the founder) can come to these public forums and admit to these wrong-doings then I could see a orgainzation evolving into a more trustworthy, self-governed community organization. As it stands now, they have members like yourself plant these info-mercials in the forum sto get more paying customers while they never stand up for the organization they run. Shady.


Again, no 'investigation' and slander posted on their website. They take sides and engage in campaigns of harassment (the huge display of a herald article in the slbb lobby - a negative story about a person who refused to respond to the slbb).

Clearly there are some strong views for both perspectives as to why any form of organisation(s) should exist, or their perception of how effective they are/aren't.

To say that everyone is right, is a true as saying everyone is wrong, but what is clear, SL cannot mature unless something positive is done, now can it be seen as a viable business platform unless some radical reforms are instigated. For some, the attempt to gain some form of credible foundation from which business can perform collectively, and a place(s) where new business's can derive a good understanding of what is required to enact their activities, must surely come from within existing and established business's that for the most part have attained an acceptable standard. This is so very true in RL, so I ask, why not in SL? Do business's here believe there is no need of such basic standards, and that SL is a cocoon which is in itself issolated from the real world? Of course not, a great deal of the growing trade and commerce carried out in SL today, is both inward and outward facing.

Many in SL do not want the many restrictions within SL that they perhaps see as a hinderance in RL, this is after all considered an 'alternative life' and not just more of the same, 'let us have our dreams'. The whole idea of introducing business standards within SL, should not be considered the openning of the flood gates for the bureaucrats to install 'speed limits, taxes', and the raft of restrictions that can seem to plague us in RL, after this IS our world, not theirs.

The evolution of SL, is not within the grasp or control of any individual, it is dynamic and those that see a different potential for this platform, will be the ones to shape it, if that potential comands a pathway for commerce and or the vision of the next generation of the internet (www) as we know it today. All anyone can do, is to evolve with it. For some they will see a huge loss in those changes, whereas others will see nothing but good. Resistance is to be expected from all quarters. Like it or not, SL will continue to evolve in whatever the visionaries, or corporates, see it as becoming.

To evolve with that direction, SL business has two choices, stagnate and be considered 'just part of the old wild west', or embrace the changes and evolve by putting into place organisations that offer some form of creditable platform.

I knew the founder of the SLBB from her very first hour of joinning SL, when I was a greeter. I have found her very knowledgeable and sincere and has a strong will to offer her very extensive knowledge of business, combined with a passion to offer anyone information. She, like many others could see the potential direction that SL was/is going and within a very short time, founded the SLBB. Anyone putting themselves in such a prominent position, would expect negativity and potential abuse/ridicule, however I for one applaud her and offer my support. Whether it works, is not really up to any single individual, but the balance of those that will, and those that will not, support any spearhead to get things moving to meet the future.

The very *point* of a better business bureau is to record past performance so everyone can form opinions.

If such an organisation can't do that for *itself* - re: face up to stuff like what happened to bladyblue... man, that's a bad, bad, bad sign.

Rolling of heads, compensation, and an explanation of how it will *never* happen again with clear remorse... and leave it up *permanently*.


Someone collects money for a better business bureau, right? If the product's no good shouldn't they be responsible, just like the rest of us?

You mention creating a creditable platform. I'm *all* for that.

Let's see:

- clear history
- transparency
- facing up
- direct accountability
- dealing with provable facts and not grid hearsay

...and *then* an organisation might be more than just another loose cannon in the wild west.

What happened is that she is clearly angry so much that she henpecks anyone and I mean anyone about it. Its her right to do so if she so pleases

However there are key things left out here and here is the main thing


a guy made a complaint and she was approached and she considers a third party entity approaching her to be harassment. This is fine however she has to realize and others do that at present there is now a service provided where people can and will ask this third party entity to approach service providers. Heck is can even be the other way around a business is ripped off by a customer. Happens

I have eyes open and so do most I am someone who at every turn asks questions I am probably one of the most paranoid anal retentive people you can meet when it comes to business and products and doing it right. I try to hide that side and my forums posts dont reflect it but as of yet and maybe its the way its being done to me (people that come to me and sceam blue murder in my face and pound me on forums without actually showing me anything kinda get ignored by me as i find it to be granstanding and attention seeking and wholely unproffessional on their part dunno) but anyway as if yet any question I have asked regarding past stuff and believe it or not I watched this particular incident unfold and I"m not totally blind and I know what happened. I also know the other side of what is not revealed and is carefully hidden by the "victim". Bottom line is she truly does NOT understand what the bbb is even in real life. When I told her that is has members and she should join the real one to compare she screamed at me that BBB has no members well this in an of itself means something to me a basic lack of knowlegdge of such a structure.


What is the purpose of the structure and now do such things work?

1) it operates on one side as a guild for businesses who pay a fee to help support its inner workings a bit
2) It operates serpately to the government (which in this case is LL) and in essance is a place to provide a service for people who have a complaint that is business related
3) It investigaes, mediates, writes letters etc on behalf of that person in an effort to get a result the business being written to responds or not and such things are dealt with.
4) they take no real side they collect information make sure its valid and deal with the information


Some people I know will hate this but as someone who has used the RL BBB to recover REAL money several thousands of dollars I know why they exist and please be very clear the initial contacts and method of dealing with stuff in BOTH real world and Second life happen the same way

i fill out a form and tell them what happen they basically regurgitate the information on the form to the business being complained about

and they wait if they get an answer they notify the person who came to them of the answer the info is unaltered and it goes from there

Now mediation and arbitration this is another area that people have trouble with it seems. The people doing this do not gather any proof they can't it will cause them to be bias and one reason I dont listen to half the garbage around is that because I dont want to become bias. Notecards forums posts etc by a guy who has come to the slbb in an effort to sway a mediator etc are ignored by the mediator and arbitrator he forms no opinion till the day off otherwise he becomes bias and has to remove himself from the situation. I suppose its a good way to run out of mediators on behalf of the business if you want to try it but most of them will delete it and not read and and ask the person politely not to send them anymore.

Each side is responsible for providing its proof which will be looked at the day of. Mediators decide NOTHING they are like the guy who tells the other guy to speak first lol that's it they sit there and basically try to get both sides to play nice. How in heck anyone can consider slbb to be evil based on a third party entity who's sole purpose is to get two parties who are peeved off at each other to talk to each other politely without cursing each other out as bad I HAVE NO IDEA but i find it pretty funny

Arbitration well thats a bit different I suppose but you see it usually only occur if one side refuses to come to the table and so a decision needs to be made based on any lopsided information well if you want to ignore it again its fine

i can post the BBB links to LL if you wish again and see just how many times LL has ignored the BBB yet PEOPLE including me still do business with them what's up with that?

I hope slbb is here to stay you can hate them or love them or just ignore em its up to you but such an organization needs to exist and a lot more people who come to slbb who are not members walk away happy with them then do not.

Truly the all two people who complained have done so in such a way as to with me anyhow discredit me listening to them because of how they say it and the fact that in one case it affected the my ability to look at it objectively so i just had to ask the guy to stop it and then people running around after in the sims well im sorry but I do business in real world people who cause trouble in my place of business get shown the door. If they continue to cause trouble then I call the police and they are escorted away by the police. I have had "wrongs" done to me by some rather large businesses in SL you will find NOT ONE SINGLE forum post on the issue. I deal with it through proper channels I dont harass them ingame on their sims I dont bother them in this respect because I"m not going to make an a&& of myself and loose credibility as a result.

The one and only case I did this with was banlink and that was because of what it was and how I found out. ON a forum by accident and it was a bit of a shambles at the time. I still respect the creators for trying to do something though. I would not badger them 24 hours a day like these people are I dont send them notecards and make forum posts about them as much as possible. When the issue was actually an issue I dealt with it and left I still dislike the service but its their service to run they have fixed a few things and changed a few things that make me dislike it a bit less. Such a service in many people's eyes does need to exist and so it does and nothing I saw or anyone else says will make it go away.

So when someone takes every opportunity to get back at slbb including harass all members who join it just to network and get educated I have a problem with that. I also think the energy would be better spent in other ways but if they want to grandstand all day every day so be it. I have told both grandstanders at this point that I dont want to receive anymore notecards im's or anything from them anymore. I got their point the first time they are angry and pissed off. I get it but in all honesty I wont be doing anything about it anytime soon because in one case the person is found to be not at fault and I have no idea why they are still going at it and the other case the listing was 100% valid so he can yell as much as he likes but it wont erase the fact he did what he did.

If slbb had turned out to be a form of banlink in the way it dealt with stuff I can guarantee you I would not be there, but they are not though. complaints are received and looked at and turned inside out by those charged with invesigating its validity and again there are ways to check this stuff objectively in 99% of the cases. If its found to be valid a mediator or arbitrator is assigned depending on the complaint. The guys job is to sit and listen. Yeah they are a hanous bunch those mediators and arbitrators they sit and listen to everyone

Mostly what the slbb does though is provide information and teach. This is another horrible thing i suppose and we should be slapped silly for trying to steer people in the right direction and say not sell stolen content or freebies .

ah well such is life.

Third choice: Do not support any 'organization' that develops blacklists or displays huge billboards of slander in SL.


I do not know why she would expect this - unless she was doing something that warranted it. Editing responses to complaints, refusing to remove complaints that were deemed un-warranted by her own mediators and blacklisting definitely puts her in a position to receive ridicule. She will not step up and speak on any of this - hiding behind her supporters instead.


We do not have to allow this woman and her cronies power over aspects of the busines community in SL. She has not proven that she can handle the responsibility and has no practical experience in making anything this important work.

Any excuse will do to blindly follow this group and ignore it's wrong do-ings completely.


I would not allow a self-appointed group to harass me and not do all I could do end the harassment.


In my case I responded in writing in April and did not even look at the SLBB website until the founder had a link in these forums in May. I was shocked to see that she had edited my comments and wrote a editorial and a CONCLUSION. When I contacted her to let her know I would just like my full response listed she refused to discuss it. She then removed my entire response and left her editorial. These constant adjustments went on for weeks while I rallied to get this thing resolved. For some reason they gave in and admitted it was with no merit then several weeks later the no merit post was removed. A waste of energy.


I was only found not at fault because of my 25 days of grandstanding, letter-writing and endless debates with SLBB underlings. If I had just taken it and walked away in May I would be on the founder's list and a easy 'mark' for her slander campaigns. Never any apoligies for their error - jusy make it go away. Not a very good policy decision from a organization that wants to be trusted by the community.


I like banlink and you do not. But I do not write monthly info-mercials in the forums about them to drum up business like you do.


Absolutely never happened until 20 days after I saw the listing and insisted this happen.

SLBB can be flawed (as banlink is) but at least it's founder steps up and comes to these forums to admit to flaws and discuss improvement. He directly addresses people who feel they have been wronged by banlink and APOLIGIZES for any inconveiniences publicly. When the SLBB founder can manage to do this she would be on the right track to showing us that she is not some power-crazed SLer who feel she does not have to answer to anyone.

I am not angry. Water under the bridge. But if I turn my eyes from this group they will attack again - and I do not feel like wasting another month to ward them off - or see others feel helpless against the organized blacklisting group. Community awareness about the group of people that claim to be fair and professional.


This never happened. The founder approached me about the complaint. 'The Guy' who made the complaint was another SLBB Board Member and personal friend of the founder. The SLBB Board Members I contacted to try to get this resolved said I was harassing them. Only one I knew personally would talk to me. But he made me swear not to reveal that he had any contact with me.

bladyblue you hate me because i made a decision that you dont like I joined a group that you hate for some reason that makes no sense to me you can disect my posts as much as you want

calling me blind , a sheep, a fanboi simply drives home one thing

YOUR opinions and feelings are more valid then others
I find you rude, and extremely aggressive

so realize this all your doing is further showing me one thing your personality of being unable to let something go calling someone names for something no moer then they belong to a group you hate

yes your a true blue trooper abusive to the core demanding I listen to you and only you and that everything else is wrong and that only you in your name calling and bad manners is the right one

please you can stop now I have had enough

thanks that would be great at this point you are the first person on this forum i have had to put on ignore please continue to disect posts and call me names and others names for what they feel is a good organization. Im sorry you hate them and me but I can't change that neither can i change the fact that I am a member because I have seen nothing wrong with what they do

No money has been extorted from me for "protection"
they are fair in their dealings despite what you say
the people in who work for the various "pieces" of slbb are honest good people with principles

there is only one thing that I find about this situation there is a person who can't let go regardless of what I say to her and how i say it

bottom line I suggested you go look up the BBB and see how it works i said join it ask to be a member i got shouted at BBB DOESN'T TAKE MEMBERS my reply was simply this "i think you need to look up what BBB is and what various organizations do"

NOw i'm sorry if this isa problem for you but realize this your story your feeeling whatever I'm sorry for those feelings and I"m sorry you can't let go of your hatred please stop spewing it all over me as I have had enough

continue to disect posts and have fun doing it as for me I have said it before i'm no longer interested in your diatriibe its in print realize iit long ago that with me anyhow I stopped listening NO i have not read your reply lol

I simply see two posts of dissection and I roll my eyes because I know its filled with hatred your replies

thanks for being consistent at least I stopped reading at the word "blindly"

I have no idea who you are. I am perplexed why you are allowed to advertise this fee-based 'service' in resdident answers. I do not hate the SLBB. I tell cautionary tales of a group of people that took their percieved power base and abused it to such lengths as to nearly have RL legailities involved. Buyer beware.

This is not the first time you have 'Hounded' a thread to death babyblue, I asked in the last one, that eventually got closed, if you have had a 'personal' issue with slbb, and you said not. Clearly you have and I for one, dislike this crusade you are on, completely refruting anything any other poster says, on the sole basis of your argument with single members, please try and remain objective (the purposes of the forums) and put forward non-individual related posts, instead using this useful thread offering a balance of discussion.

If I wanted you to segrigate each section of my posts, I will split them into simplified topics for you. You accuse others of doing this to the information you used to support your claim, don't do that to others. I am not a 'cronie' to anyone, nor am I blind to issues, please do not assume that anyone who is a member of SLBB etc are of that ilke, you only make yourself sound stupid. I have been running RL business for over 30 years and find your comments regarding why there shouldn't be a form of SLBB, stinking of a personal crusade and invalid in the general discussions.

I have yet to read of alternatives to the growing and much needed forms of BB, all I see is reasons why a very small minority don't want something, hardly useful posting. Like it or not, organisations like the SLBB etc will develop in SL. No one is forcing you or anyone else to join any organisation, to make comments of slander based on your individual occurence, forms no basis that one or more should not exist, is again invalid to the general posts.

Pot calling kettle black. Maybe you know why your allowed to advertise a paid 'service' in resident answers. I am perplexed.


I never had any dealing with any SLBB members - just the founder and her board. And frommy experience what the poster is claiming that these people do and represent are not true.


Your using this thread not to promote a CONCEPT but to promote a group of people that would like to be considered a service provider for SL consumers and business people. You want people to agree with you that these indiviuals are good at what they claim to do and that people should pay these people $1K to support their efforts. I do not agree that anyone should pay this fee and entrust these people with these responsibilities (from my DOCUMENTED experience in dealing with the founder and the Board of Directors).


You just refuse to admit any wrong doings by these individuals - that is not objective.


There should be a community group formed to assist consumers and business people. None of the Board Members of the SLBB should have any power over such a group. They have proven themsleves incapable of dealing with the responsibility. I have invested over two years of time and money into this platform. I am not going to endorse some harassment and slander group to take any position of power over any aspect of it.


ANd I will happily endorse a agency that does not engage in blacklisting, displaying huge negative articles about business in SL and abuse their powers by publishing un-investigated claims and amending their website many time to cover their tracks. Until then the 'very small minority' will wait.

The SLBB is another scam by Olive, just like her attorneys at law group she charged 1k for people to join than took their money than disbanded. I must say she's gotten more efficient with her scam tho, managed to talk her way into a sim. But all and all, when it's a friend of hers she will black list them, make up lies, slander them kick people out of the SLBB who disagree with her. Oh and the "mediation" process is a joke when before all the evidence is even presented they say "why not just give people money that you don't owe than and we'll stop slandering your name"

SLBB is a black list group designed to get as much money in their hands as they can. Dump all the cherry's and wiped cream on that you want and you can fool the less intelligent, but every respectable person quit the SLBB because of that fact. You need to rename it to "Olives mafia extortion racket."

I'm not going to argue with someone spreading the SLBB word because I'm sure in one way or another it's lining your pockets or increasing your sales.

If you want a "legitimate business center" than have it, get all your members in your own little space and tell the world that Olive said you're a good business so they should shop there, but leave other people alone. The RL BBB does not report on non members, the SLBB only reports on non members, than tries to extort them directly and through slander and greifing when they don't submit.

there's my 2 cents.

LL conforms to the law very well actually. Maybe you should read the laws that apply before you comment on them.