Age Verification - A Few Questions.

While I agree with you in principal, that pedophiles are scum and have no place on SL, however banning things in gray areas is never the answer.

How does one define what is literature and what is porn? In the early twentieth century many works now considered literature were banned as pornographic (Joyce's Ulysses a prime example). And the works quoted in my posting (Lolita and Candy) have been pulled from numerous library bookshelves as pornographic despite the fact that they are generally considered literature.

Too often a moral outrage (check that term in Wikipedia while you're at it), often fueled by the media will cause bad laws to be put on the books. Add to that a media and politicians often ignorant to the realities of the internet, and you have a very unhappy situation--particularly for people like Linden Labs.

So I do understand where LL is coming from, but I do not think this is a good solution.

If it becomes everyone must age veryify I will be doing a good bit of research on my own of the company involved. Right now we think it is this Aristotle. I will wait and see until we know for certain. If my own research and if necessary phone calls to the company do not net me reassurances that I am comfortable with. Then I guess I find another online world.

In the end it is a personal choice for every user. I have always been careful of personal data. I see no reason to change just because it is SL.

I'd rather see it on the company's website or hear it in an announcement from them personally. All I saw on their website is what they use the info for and how to remove it. The option of removal or editing indicates storage!

what im confused about is why are they bothering L$10 is Nothing.

seems an odd choice for a one time fee.

you are of course welcome to your opinion, but the truth of how the age verification situation has played out in Germany doesn't particularly care about it.

In Germany, you need to show up and show your ID in person to prove your age.

The question asked was if these images were illegal, and they are. They aren't quite as bad a situation as porn involving a real child, but the fact that you can't age verify definitively is a problem for any pornographic content by German law.

I don't think they have even officially announced who the 3rd-party company will be yet. I'm very much in a wary-but-wait-and-see mode here..


I wonder if by charging for it, even though we all know L$ isn't real money, they somehow indemnify themselves against future action.

They have flat said it is going to cost more for non premiums. I figure its money making. There are alot of non premiums out there and if the cost is substantially higher that will add up fast.

/me bets they're not going to net money on this. They might not lose money but I'll be really suprised if they actually get profit from it.

They've got to contract the 3rd party people, they've got to pay their lawyers and such to set this up and make it kosher, they've got to pay the code monkies to change the source, etc, etc.

I asked the question. So yes, that was the question. Thats Okay its illegal. Thats Issue A. Im not discussing the Merits of Issue A.

Becuase this threads about Issue B - Age verification. Issue B is not related to Issue A - becuase Child Porn is illegal for Adults. Therefore if you age verify 12, 18 , 33, 44, 90 your are still in violation.

The person who mentioned the story implied that the Story which is About Issue A says Linden Labs is at fault becuase of Issue B.

That makes no sense.

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,481467,00.html

sorry its not in english, but its the whole ageplay thing all over again.

I can easily see the German authorities saying

"we realise that your laws arent the same as our laws, but if you don't guarantee these ageplayers are not minors, you may find access to your system restricted to this country by a court"

and yes, it can happen. It happened to Compuserve already. It was a gut wrenching case that nobody really liked, not even the government whose task it was to litigate it. But there are strong lobbies against this kind of thing, and I would not be surprised in the least if this kind of thing is going on behind the scenes.

what does Ageplay have to do with Adult verification?

Each State in the US has a program at the DMV offices where you can get an ID card that is NOT a driver's license. Showdog Tiger is older and can't drive anymore and she has one from North Carolina. They run about 15 - 30 USD nationwide. Everyone should have a form of ID in the event of a disaster....so your family can know you are dead at the least and alive if they are lucky. Make sure you check the organ donor stuff too! Many people could be helped of you die! If you can not afford the 15 - 30 USD for proper indentification you have no business playing in SL.

MS

Moreover, have any of the Lindens ever realized that some legal adults do not have drivers licenses, passports or other official forms of ID? (I am glad to see that a Social Security card is acceptable as otherwise I would have to quit SL if this goes through). Also some people are very concerned about their privacy and many will leave SL rather than divulge such information.

While I would like to see minors kept off the main grid, and realize the importance of making SL a predator-unfriendly place, I think this action will do more harm than good by the number of good people it drives away.[/QUOTE]

http://world.altavista.com/

please, use babelfish, I suck as a translator.

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,481467,00.html


Kinderpornografisches Angebot"
"Mir fehlen einfach die Worte", kommentierte Oberstaatsanwalt Vogt, "dieses Angebot ist ein kinderpornografisches Angebot."



In dem Fernsehinterview kündigte die Vizepräsidentin von Linden Lab an, ein Altersverifikationssystem einzuführen. Bislang darf man sich offiziell erst ab 18 für SL anmelden, eine echte Überprüfung findet aber nicht statt. Wer in der virtuellen Welt finanzielle Transaktionen durchführen will, muss allerdings Kreditkartendaten hinterlegen.


Nun soll es Kindern und Jugendlichen gänzlich unmöglich gemacht werden, Zugang zu bestimmten Bereichen des Spieles zu bekommen. Jugendschützer in Deutschland fordern indes weitergehende Schritte. Friedemann Schindler von der für Jugendschutz im Internet zuständigen Behörde jugendschutz.net sagte, es gebe ganz einfache Möglichkeiten, sexuellen Missbrauch in dem Spiel zu verhindern. Der Betreiber müsse die Online-Welt nur so programmieren, dass zum Beispiel der sexuelle Kontakt zwischen Kindern und Erwachsenen nicht möglich ist.



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to make a long story short, they will use your ID information to prosecute you if you are living in Germany. ID and age info is needed to prevent children and adults from interacting in sex areas.

OHHHHH it doesnt blame AGE verification it blames IDENTITY verification. To help them prosecute people.

I see the connection now.

Thats completely different.

Wow .. less people will be open to itheir identity being verified than their Age being Verified.

And I think it will require more than this service will provide.

Maybe they need to have seperate European and American Grids then with different rules. Becuase I dont think youll get everyone who wants to check Second Life out to verify their identity at that sort of level. Not to mention a lot who are already here.

Aristotle is doing exactly that. ID AND AGE verification of the identities LL already has on us, on file.

They come back with a check - is it valid info - yes/no.

that's all LL wants. So when the Feds or the Staatsanwalt comes knocking, LL knows the information is valid and its out of their hands.

But its not required - Nor will be according to LL at the current time.

The nothing stopping people from passing files around.

Of course there isnt on Yahoo either.

Im not sure this ID check Aristole is providing is enough to get a warrant with in the US .. I suppose the lawyer types know more than I do.

But I thought they werent KEEPING the info just verifying it.

I suppose LL does keep your name on file though.

It has been suggested by others that LL can use this as a way of tracking who has used this option. Kinda like the L$1 freebies, where the content creator now has a record of who took him/her up on said freebie...

If LL is intending to use transaction history in order to determine anything, woe betide them.

It's not required except to access adult areas. German authorities are saying in that article that children and adults cannot mix in sex areas.

They want age and identity verification for adults entering sex areas.

That is to stop mixing of adults with kids in adult areas, so they don't enter into sex with a minor. Most sex clubs I expect to do that with glee. And if I was one, I would too.

That article also details how the graphics of ageplay is child porn. You can do 3-5 years in jail for trading in "virtual" child porn, according to the article.

Sex age play in SL is illegal in Germany. It is child porn according to laws there. Mark my words, they are looking to catch people in sting operations.

The ID on file with LL is enough to prosecute people who engage in illegal activities with children, or even virtual ones. That info is easily gotten from a credit card, but only if it is valid info. That is what Aristotle is doing. Checking if that info LL has on file is valid or not. If it is, then its useable to hand over to authorities.

So no, you don't have to worry about Aristotle - because LL's info on file, when valid, is plenty enough to get someone put in jail, even in the USA - they use credit card bank info to trace down users of illegal porn sites all the time.

... but of course, we know what will really happen.

All the perfectly legal people with XXX content will verify, and the illegal stuff will go underground, with nobody verifying.

Folks better use their land tools and autoreturn to deal with stuff that shouldnt be on their land, and rate their land adult if they leave sexballs out for use 24/7.

I do see this happening.

And it will lead to mandatory verification as suggested in the blog. Either that or some sort of barrier beyond parcel flags.

I dont think "peoples common sense" will ever be an acceptable method of policing content.

It isn't my land, as the ToS goes to great lengths to make clear.

I don't agree with their rules, I'm just explaining them.

they spell out you're responsible for what goes on it. If that poseball has your name on it as owner, and someone with the AR tool picks out your objects and reports them, its you who will be flagged.

just saying :/

I see a market in rezzing and derezzing your house when you actually need it, and leaving it blank the rest of the time lol.

LOL

It is your land not LL's when its in LL's best interest for it to be.

It is LL's land not yours when its in LL's best Interest for it to be.

Pretty neat trick - huh?