Is this an accurate experience (assuming a "role" in SL)?

I was just about to post this (below) into the "newlyborn tips" thread when it struck me that it would be nice to ask others if it matched their experience first.

Do folks think that something like the below would be valuable advice for new resis?

----

Something that I've learned through quite hard experience, and I think is often missed and leads to frustration:

Anything that you want to do in SL, in terms of a "role" you want to take, must be expressed in some way that's of benefit to others; otherwise it will be mostly ignored.

Yes, Second Life is a huge online game where you do not have to level up. But, be careful, that does not mean that you can instantly take a position in the virtual world that resembles that which a super high level player would have in an MMORPG. In fact, not only can you not take that position instantly, you can't take it at all.

For example, suppose that you want to be a ninja. If you want this to actually happen, you have to do this in some way that's of benefit to others. So you could make ninja things, or you could run a ninja school.. but you can't just be a ninja who goes around and kills or humiliates anyone they want because they're just Better Than Them. Nope, not ever. Not on Second Life. If you want that, you'll have to play a game with levelling. Well, one exception to that - it's possible that a "game with levelling" could exist within Second Life in which case you can play that, but there's no other shortcut. Sorry.

Look at any of the major activities in Second Life and you'll notice the theme - value to both parties. Camping is of benefit to the camper and campee. Casino gambling, ditto (you have to consider "the chance of winning" to be a benefit, but gamblers do). Business, ditto. Hopefully both parties enjoy sex.

(And, um, yes, you can possibly get around it by making a sexy ninja avatar and finding a man/woman who gets all excited at the thought of being beaten up by a ninja, I mean dear god some of the things people turn out to like.. - but I wouldn't hold your breath for that particular one. Ok, this is mostly a joke, but it's also kinda mentioned as a warning because there are BDSM/sex communities who recruit with this kind of offer; don't take it up unless you're sure you're comfortable with it, and remember it will be only a limited number of people at limited times when you are both on, not a general thing.)

And remember that other people, not you, will decide on the "linkage" of things. One of the #1 mistakes I see people making so often is building up what are often extremely good roleplaying areas and then crowning themselves King or Queen, believing that'll get them respect for the role. In all the time I've been on SL, and all the roleplaying sims I've seen, this has never worked - although it may get you respect as a builder, which is arguably better, because it's more real.

Bear in mind when looking at the profiles of other residents that the fact that someone mentions a role of this type on their profile does not mean they have it respected in the world.

Since I didn't understand many of your references nor find them applicable to my SL experience, it might be a good idea to preface this with a "For residents who want to engage in serious role-play...".

Role-playing doesn't involve all SL residents; many of us have only the most glancing interest or interaction with these players.

Every SL resident is role-playing to at least a small extent, unless your avatar is a carbon copy of your RL self.

Yes, to a *small extent*, and I distinctly said I was referring to serious role playing, which is the focus of your post. The opening paragraph to your commentary assumes a level of familiarity with role-playing goals that many of us do not either understand or share.


Since you were asking if your advice matched our experiences, I answered according to mine. Your post about role-playing has almost no application to my experience in SL. The only degree to which I role play is that I have a name and body that do not match my RL name and appearance. What does that have to do with levels, super high or otherwise?

Im with Beebo on this.

Less and less (percentage wise) of new Residents are "Role Players" , a lot of people are brining in their Real Life concerns into the chat.

The chat is becoming much more like a Chat room and less like a MMORPG.

Everytime im in a public place im asked where I live in real life. This certainly isnt a roleplaying question.

Additionally though it would be nice for Everyone in Second Life to have a possitive impact on other Residents - Many do not. Lots have negative impacts.

After some bad experiences, I tend to avoid the die hard roleplayers who are always in character - I never know if they are just playing with me.

Not everything has to be done for the benefit of others.
You don't have to take any "role" at all.

If however, you want to be a ninja, go ahead and dress in black. It doesn't have to be for the benefit of others. There is one rule though, if you go round throwing ninja stars at people in safe zones, you will be AR'd.

The few role players I know in SL are very relaxed about it and most of the time we're chatting out-of-character for their setting.

In general, I also avoid serious role players because well, they're playing a game, and I'm not. It's like going to the local park to walk your dog and staying away from the Medieval Jousting Tournament because you don't want to get run through with a sword while you're just trying to play Frisbe.

SL is my local park, a place I go to for relaxation and enjoyment, but not to participate in organized games because I'm not much of a gamer online or off.

I enjoy the visual aesthetics of the role-playing builds and costumes of some of the heavy role-playing sims, but only the way I appreciate a painting. I would have loved to explore a sim like Avilion, but I'll be damned if I will wear a dress in SL when I won't even wear one in RL. And evidently even wearing the sim's male clothing would have gotten me banned for being "out of character." (As if there haven't been cross-dressers throughout history and cultures.)

But if it is not to the benefit of others, nobody will treat you like a ninja, even though you are dressed in black - that was my point.

I agree that SL is becoming more about social networking now. Where I'm not absolutely sure is that this is a good thing - I don't think SL will ever have the popularity of something like MySpaces or FaceBook simply because it's too much trouble for nontechnical users to use, and you have to pay money (quite a lot of money) to create "your own space" on SL, which you don't on either of those. Since for social networking, the biggest draw of a site is often there being a lot of other people around to network with, falling behind has a snowball effect.

The above was written because I was trying to generally explore things that can and can't be done in SL, partly in response to some discussion the Lindens were having with the volunteer groups about the newbie experience and the retention rate in SL.

Even if it is for others benefit, others will treat you how they want.
There's lots of "police" groups who like to dress up as officers. Some of them even go out to newbie areas to help people. Doesn't stop them taking flak left, right and center for it though, and nobody treats them like police officers.

I think the retention rate is doomed no matter what is done. LLs lack of interest in anybody with less than $1m, the lack of a stable archetecture, the overabundance of people willing to rip off newbies, and the lack of any real aims to this "game" combine to form a pretty shoddy experience for newbies.

Really? Wow. I think I've been asked by only two people, and my wife has only been asked maybe four times in 10 months.

Sorry to hear that.

.

The last item on this list -- lack of any real aims -- is not an issue unless you're a gamer.

SL is not a game; it's a new technology platform in the form of a virtual world. One use for this world is gaming, but it's not the sole use by far. Since its inception, many residents (like myself) have had no expectation of anyone in SL providing them with a structured game with rules or goals. In fact, one of the things I LIKE about SL is precisely the lack of that kind of artifical gaming structure.

Wow, banned for that? Seems... VERY restrictive. Why??? Sounds like they lost a very interesting person by excluding you. Some themed sims have basic avatar rights posted, such that you *can't* be banned for such a thing.

I think that you and I foiund something to agree on for a change, Yumi. That's quite refreshing, after the way we have locked horns this week in other issues.

I do a fair amount of roleplaying in SL. Comes with the territory, when you want to be a furry, rather than a Human. And doubly-so when you want to be a magical/supernatural creature, like a Kitsune. Here's how I would pose it:

In Second Life's version of roleplay, "rank" comes largely from the consent of other Players. It isn't just what you claim to be. It's how well you can portray that role, and do other people interacting with you agree that the role suits you, and that they enjoy interacting with you in that role.

It doesn't matter if you want to roleplay as a cop, or a vampire, or a kitsune, or a robot, or a BDSM Mistress. Whatever role you choose has only as much validity as the others you are playing with will grant you. Play it well, and make it a positive experience for the others you interact with, and you'll be treated appropriately. Play it poorly, and you'll lose your audiance.

If you want to be a powerful, almost Godly 9-tailed Kitsune, you have better be prepared to act the part so well, and to make interacting with you so interesting, that others who encounter you will accept that as your rank. Seriosuly consider starting smaller, like a one or two-tailed form, and allow yourself to rise through the "ranks" as a matter or roleplay with others. When they start giving you the respect due the higher rank, that is when it is time to take that rank. It's not a matter of fixed points, in most cases. It's a matter of actual interaction and experience.

If a tramp on the street puts on a crown, and acts like no more than a tramp, no one will believe they are the king. But if his speech and manners, his general bearing, and his sense of presence when you speak to him are all spot-on for one of at least aristocratic birth, you may well accept his tale that he is the incognito king of the country, wandering among his people.

I have seen people "reach too high" in claiming power or rank in SL roleplay. And I have seen them ignored or thought less of for doing so. The fact that you own a sim may give you a lot of power, in that sim, but if you want people to accept you walking around wearing the title "Emperor", well, you'd better make it worth the other people's time. Or they will just think you are a pretentious person with more money than social skills.

Outside of a RP sim, how would a Ninja want to be treated in the General SL world? If he started Ninjaing in a mall or a bar he would be AR'ed, Banned, or Laughed at. Do you live your life, 1st or Second to impress others? I don't. I sometimes wander about , after skydiving in my Flight Suit. If that causes someone to strike up a conversation, great. If not, I don't excpect any special recognition for it. Also I visit the Star Trek attractions, sometimes in a Starfleet Uniform. Again if I go into a general area I don't expect to be addressed as Captain.

And I don't generally make notice of people's roles in general contact. I may encounter a BDSMer in a nuetral place.I wouldn't refer to them as Master or Mistress in conversation.

I didn't keep the Avilion rules notecard, so I can't quote it verbatim, but the gist was that you had to dress in keeping with the basic fantasy medieval theme and that women were expected to wear gowns and men their appropriate tunic-style clothing. For anyone visiting the realm, a set of gender-specific clothing was provided as a freebie.

I would have automatically donned the tunic (a style of costume that I really like) but they seemed to specifically exclude that kind of cross-dressing by specifying that women had to wear gowns. If I'd been sufficiently motivated I might have tried to contact the island owner and make a historical case for cross-dressing (I've got books on the topic in my RL library), but I was only mildly curious to see the sim.

With a great deal of grumbling, I put on one of the gowns and strolled through a few streets, but it just felt so fundamentally WRONG that I couldn't stay for long. I threw out the gown, but I kept the tunic outfit -- it's cool.

I see your reason to grumble. Being asked do wear appropriate attire for the areas theme is quite acceptable. but if you should be allowed to portray the gender of your choice in doing so. But then again, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for trying something similar.

I could probably have "passed" given that my avatar is is fairly androgynous when wearing a no-makeup skin, but I was trying to respect the rules of that sim.

You know, I just may revisit that sim after all, as a cross-dressing woman who would face dire consequences if she was discovered to be a woman. The threat of possible banishment could add a little spice to my exploration.

It would, after all, be entering into the true spirit of the role play.

This is interesting.

And that would bring us to the "getting out what you put in to it" discussion a few threads gao.

I'm still a bit confused here. Probably my own fault, but...

A few weeks ago, there were a couple goreans standing on my land (not in a gorean sim), acting out some sort of ritual. It involved lots of shouting about ownership and stuff, and while quite "realistic," I don't see how this would ever have any benefit for me. I was perfectly happy to let them have their roleplay, and it wasn't disturbing me or anything, but it wasn't of any benefit to me. I was indifferent.

If the criterion for whether they should be allowed to engage in role play was whether it was a benefit to me, then, by your standard, they should have stopped. I think a much more practical standard might be whether the roleplay caused harm to others.

You are right. Roleplaying should be for the benefit of yourself, and those engaging the same game as you are.

While im dont support this sim at all and I dont like people who require you to make appologies - Could you not tell them you have androgynous characteristics to your personality?

I mean then they would obviously be being intollerant of you.

Lol in a true simulation of the middle ages very few women would be wearing makeup anyway.

I dont think many women would even be wearing gowns. A simple skirt and a blouse of course wool more likely. The rich were far outnumbered by the poor.

A poor woman wearing the clothes of a man would possibly have been ignored in many places. It was the upper classes that were the sticklers on that sort of thing. Long as you steered clear of the sober representatives of the church.

Then of course due to nutrition men and women were much closer in size. Thus it would be easier to "pass" unquestioned.

Just some musings - a lot Role Players tend to be poor followers of history. I think they want everything to lend itself to dramtic role play too much. The realities of history are far less glamorous.

The post strikes me as verbose and condescending and not a good post to put in a thread for new users.

That's my point, but I'd add an extra caveat. Which is that, even if you are the best roleplayer in the world, there are some things you just aren't going to be able to do, because other people won't accept them. The Ninja who goes around stealthily killing people, never getting defeated, is a good example - most people just aren't going to enjoy that, no matter how well the ninja player plays out the process.

The reason why this whole issue comes up is because often, when people ask what they can do in SL, they get told something along the lines of "anything you like". This means that role-playing is important because it is the "catch-all" which allows this claim to be made. But the problem is, role-playing on SL doesn't in fact let you do anything you like, since you can't role-play anything which involves giving other people a negative experience - and a lot of what people want to do, does in fact have that effect, although they may not realise it at first.

So you might be able to earn the IC status as a king or queen, but you can't "really" play as a king or queen would because what you can do with your power is still governed by the requirement to generate positive experiences for others. You're still very restricted. This isn't the same as many role playing games and especially not as many MMORPGS - yes, I know very well that SL isn't the same as many of these, but at least some new players don't; and even more of them, when they are told they can do anything and start thinking about what they can do, think of something that would have to be done by roleplay but would be negative for others.

The OP would be better with 98 percent fewer words.