We got missionaries!

Everything is open to ridicule in SL. Never read what people write about furries, goreans and other groups? Now we get religious nuts, and they have to endure the same.

But that doesn't mean they aren't welcome. They are poor, deluded people (honestly, no sarcasm). Saying that religious people aren't welcome here would be the same as not welcoming paranoid or schizophrenic people. Send them my way, I went through a long and painful deconversion process myself and might be able to help them.

I can, however, understand everyone who expresses concern. Groups like this may join Second Life out of the urge to clean up this "den of iniquity", and no one can foresee which steps they might take. Just as a paranoid person could get the idea to clean the government from the alien invaders in human form he believes in, there's no telling what a person who sees the "work of the devil" everywhere and talks to invisible gods might do. All forms of delusions are inherently dangerous.

http://thegamergene.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/nun_computer.thumbnail.jpg

Neva Naughty..?

Neva Naughty..?

Do homosexuals go around knocking on doors, preaching the gospel of homosexuality which asserts that if you do not become gay today, you will burn in an eternal, firey hell, with wailing, and gnashing of teeth and all that?

Do furries?

Do BDSM enthusiasts?

Do other unchristian groups?

The Christian gospel is brutal. I support anyone's right to believe in it, however their rights stop cold dead when they preach at me that I need also believe in it, else I suffer such a brutal punishment after the punishment of this life is over.

No, I don't need or want this in my Second Life. It has nothing to do with tolerance in a social context. It has everything to do with imposition.

I'm happy for those for whom religion has made a positive difference. It's not for me. Growing up gay and in a strict Christian/Baptist family produced enough conflict to last me several lifetimes. No more.

So you favor forced association? You favor thought control? You see to suggest such.

Now wait, what are they doing converting the masses or isolating individual members?

And I support your right to order them off of your property when they knock on your door.

Which explains the high mortality rate among early Christians caused by trichanosis. Kosher Law has it's foundations in Good Food handling practices in Hot Climates, Some religious practices are Both Spiritual, AND Practicle.

Don't let my attitude towards the Missionaries fool you, i AM a religious person (Roman Catholic, Born, baptised, and raised) but i've never seen the Up side of proselatizing (Right word, Questionable spelling) Ones religion. I always thought the purpose of my faith was to Keep my Own Spiritual house in order, not tell others that They have things all wrong. When I get a Sign that i've acheived perfection, maybe then I'll start talking to others. Doing it before then Just seems like hypocricy to me.

Angel.

I agree with Angel, I keep my Religious practices to myself and don't push it on others.

That being said, I also don't like Missionaries, they are annoying and go to great lengths to annoy. Almost as persistent as griefers.

I am not Catholic, and I hardly agree with all of their doctrines. Zaphod just named one I find particularly distasteful, and I have difficulty with any group that prohibits women from most leadership positions. To me, quite honestly, that sort of thing is more of man's creation than of God's.

But much of their doctrine is about good works and helping each other spiritually. Let us be honest, there are many "lost souls" in Second Life. I believe the Jesuits honestly feel they are here to help such people. I might not agree with them 100%, but I cannot fault those motivations. I certainly will not be unkind to them should I meet them.

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to be tolerant and open minded but then say things like "I am tolerant of everyone except those ................" fill in the blank. They see nothing wrong with inserting Christians, but would be among the first to cry bloody murder if someone said "gays", "blacks", "furrys", "Jews", etc..............

Seems to me that pointing out the supposed heretical views held by others, is a form of isolationism. The old "create an out group to make the in group look like the only place to be" trick.

Perhaps, Chris, this is because gays, blacks, furries, jews, etc, don't threaten the general populous with eternal damnation if they do not become gay, black, furry, jewish, etc.

Tolerance and having open minds exclude such punishment, naturally. Where is the intolerance really rooted, when non compliance with the message results in, ostensibly, burning for all of eternity?

My beef with Christians is not that they are Christian, it's with the message they seem to think they are called to carry. It is one of deeply rooted intolerance.

Do you point out and try to change the views of those who believe different than you on subjects other than religion? Say sex or race? If so, how are you different than the missionaries you don't like?

As much as the liberal media likes to rant about them, Christians have no power to do anything but talk to you. If you don't believe in the message, what power does it have over you? You find their message offensive, others may find another group of people offensive for what ever reason.

You surely can't say that for all Christians, I've met some other Christians that are accepting of everyone, as you are supposed to love everyone as a Christian.

You shouldn't have a beef with Christians really, only those 'certain' ones that are Westboro like. I guess I also can't really consider myself a Christian either, I dislike the old Testament, as it is filled with hate and murder in the name of God, and don't believe in most of the bible.

Then again, those hateful Christians can't consider themselves Christians anyways, as it is against the word of Jesus to be hateful to your fellow man.

Actually yes.

There is an account that -

During a starvation during the first crusade, the crusaders ate some of their Arab enemies.

There's a common misunderstanding: atheism is not a belief. It's merely the absence of all beliefs that aren't supported by the reality that we all live in. A psychologist who tries to talk a paranoiac out of his delusional belief set isn't blind for the beliefs of his patient, nor is he sanctimonious for trying to help the poor guy.

I have grown up as a very religious person. I believed that the small group of "my people", the New Apostolic Church, were the only persons not under the influence of an invisible being called Satan. I believed that another invisible being called God was reading my thoughts and watching my steps all around the clock, while Satan and his minions tried everything to get me to stray from the right path. Tell me how this is not paranoia. It's not any different from other forms of "everyone is after me", "the aliens are reading my mind" or "I'm one of the few who know the truth, everything is different than it seems, reality is an illusion".

It's a tough stance to view a strong grasp of reality and the belief in invisible higher beings messing with the fate of mankind and occasionaly performing magic miracles as two equal forms of belief.



Of course there are unhappy atheists. Atheism not a philosophical world view or a form of belief, nothing that comes with a certain set of morals and ethics, nothing that tells you how to live your life, nothing that guarantees happiness by finding easy, magical answers and helping a person to ignore and rationalize the cold, hard facts of reality. To use the example of a paranoiac again: there's no guarantee that he will be happier in reality after he has been cured. His delusion might give him some piece of mind, since it explains the cruelty and injustice of the world for him.

As for religious expreiences: There's a woman called Deanna Laney. I'm sure that she had lots of genuine experiences, from her distorted point of view. She heard god speaking to her. She had visions sent by her god. At some point in her life, it might have looked as if her delusion had a positive influence on her life. Until her god, the god she knew from the bible, told her to kill her three children ().
The bible god has a habit of doing such nasty things. God often gave his followers the order to kill other people, it's all over the bible. No wonder that Deanna Laney had no problem believing that god indeed wanted her to slaughter her own children. She had the same strong faith as Abraham, or Elijah as he murdered the prophets of Baal for his LORD. ANd so she did what her god told her.

Most religious people are too civilized and too rational to let their delusion take overhand. Like most paranoid people are perfectly able to function in society too. But no one can tell what a person who hears voices and believes in miracles might see, hear and get ordered to do. There are countless cases like this, young homosexuals killed by peers because they felt "righteous anger" instilled by their biblical god, for example.
And when we look at the past, at times when religious lunatics ruled the Western World, when every cruelty in the name of the lord was socially acceptable... well, I guess I don't need to go there.

Another, more subtle form of danger: religion preaches regress and hems progress. The influence of the church on the state might appear to be weak (and that's the only reason religion appears to be civilized and harmless these days), but still strong enough to hinder progress, just because people still believe in ghosts and gods. How often are scientists accused of "playing god"? The ban on embrionic stem cell research is just one example.



I don't pride myself because I managed to get rid of my delusion. I feel for everyone who is still caught in a distorted world view, afraid to live because of fear of imaginary eternal hellfire, more suffering life than enjoying it, in the belief that something better awaits them.

But I'm also concerned. Concerned what might happen to the next person who makes a groundbreaking discovery like Galileo - a discovery with the potential to change the world for the better, but a discovery that happens to contradict an old book written by sheep herders in the Middle East, thousands of years ago.
I'm concerned that the president of a nuclear power claims to talk with invisible friends, a clear sign of a potentially dangerous delusion, and believes in a book that prognoses a great war between East and West, followed by the supposedly inevitable end of the world.

But above all, I'm concerned about the innocent children raised by religious nuts, raised and brain-washed in a way that supposedly saves them from a terrible fate. Children who have to grow up as I once did, without any self-esteem, believing to be a sinful lowly worm in the prying eyes of a hateful god that might condemn them to eternal pain. Children who grow into adults with a strong "Us versus Them" notion, who see demons and devils everywhere around them, are afraid to live their sexuality and believe that their biological life (and the lives of others) is expendable. Who might someday tick off and harm themselves because they can't take this delusion anymore, or harm others for the cause of their delusional faith.

Wrong, Atheism is a belief, they believe god does not exist, making it a belief.

I think that would qualify as a Dulcett / Envangelism mashup.

IBTL

That's an easy and convenient question for you to ask, and I'm glad to answer.

From about the age of 10 on into when I moved out of my parents' house at 19, I was immersed in the "christian" environment. I respected my church pastor, and my youth pastor. In retrospect, two of the biggest homophobes I've ever known. I can assure you that I'd never hated myself for being gay as much as I did then. I would look at myself in the mirror, 13 years old, and want to kill myself for being gay. Thank you Jesus, for such love. Fortunately, I made it through those years, and became a fairly well rounded adult.

I can tell you Chris, the message is powerful, more powerful than you probably could ever know.

Evangelical Aethism is just as bad as Missionaries.

Who is the Aetheist to tell people what they should and shouldnt beleive?

The Aethiest doesnt promise eternal sufferent and hellfire.

The Aeithist promises Eternal nothingness awaiting you at death.

Whether religeon is right or not - for those ABLE to beleive it does offer some relief over the fact that life is often far too tragic and short. It helps people cope with deaths of loved ones, and it helps people cope with huge adversity in their lives.

You call it distorted .. but even if there is no God, no afterlife, etc - they have lost Nothing by beleiving in a higher power - and they may gain some comfort in this life.

Now I dont think anyone should be telling people they will go to hell if they dont beleive X is right.

But telling everyone they will never go to heaven (or anywhere else) no matter what they beleive isnt any better.

Or do the non-spirits of nothingness reward you when your brain synapses stop firing becuase you were a non-beleiver?

To bring up the case of Deanna Laney again - she believed that god told her to kill her children. The court didn't believe the same. How can judge and jury possibly sentence her for her crime or even call it a crime? It's just a different belief, isn't it? She believes in a god that commands her to kill, the jury does not. There's no way to tell who is right and who is criminally insane, following your logic.
How could be judge this woman based on a belief that might be just as untrue as hers, the belief that her belief is wrong and her god does not exist?

The answer is easy, of course. Her belief is not supported and confirmed by reality. People who hear voices are insane, plain and simple. Be it the voice of a magical fairy, of a leprechaun that lives under their floorboards or the voice of an imaginary god. There is reality, and there is delusion; reality is not a belief, it's a fact.

If everyone in the entire world was an aethiest - Mental Illness would still exist.

The atheist promises nothing. All we talk about is REALITY. Reality is less desirable than a magical fairytale world with eternal happiness for everyone, I can't argue that. Of course it is a lot nicer to live forever than having to die someday, but it's just not true.

There wouldn't be any problem with people believing that they, against all biological facts, will live forever. If they didn't infect their children and make it impossible for them to break out of this delusional belief in fear of an imaginary danger. And if they didn't fly planes into buildings because it will supposedly take them to heaven.

As for Pascal's Wager (they have lost nothing if they believe in it and it isn't true): sorry, but that's bullshit. I have spent more than 20 years of my life in hell on earth, and another 10 years in uncertainty and fear. I was convinced that I would be damned to spend an eternity in hell, only for being bisexual. I believed to be surrounded by unwitting servants of satan, unable to trust anyone but a handful of religious nuts like I was. I've lost my childhood and my youth, I grew up without any perspective or self-esteem, I tried to kill myself, I started to drink and also lost my health. And you tell me that I haven't lost anything by believing a lie?

Besides - which god would I place my bets on if I don't want to lose anything? Believe in the Yahweh + Jesus team, and Allah will be mightily pissed. He might send you to Gehenna. Oh, and there's also Wishnu, who will condemn you to spend your next life as a rat. If you believe in one invisible guy in the sky, you have to believe in the whole package, every god who was ever invented. How else could you be sure? But believe in Allah and Wishnu in addition, and Yahweh&Son will throw you into a lake of fire. You can't win Pascal's Wager.