Height Discrimination in Second Life

The next time it happens you should buy one of those partner animations that makes you sit on the shoulders of another. Find another short av to sit on and then wear a giant trenchcoat that covers both your bodies. That should get you right past security.

Hey that worked for the Little Rascals!

You can blame the text of most anti-pornography legislation for that - it says what's illegal is the "depiction" of a child, in other words, the image that at appears at any given moment.

In other words, unless all of this information about how you behave and your character's background can somehow be condensed down into a way such as that every single frame of graphics that shows your avatar also shows this information, then there's a risk of some of those frames counting as a forbidden depiction. (It's basically to stop someone distributing actual computer-generated child pornography and saying "yes, but she's not a child, she's a 3000 year old fae queen".)

Only in a few countries, in other countries subjects as clear and controversial as Shota are accepted.



The Fae queen would probably have wings. I have ears and two tails that never come off... I am clearly not a human, so how can I ever be seen as a human child? Yet I am.

So the original question remains, what depicts a child? Height? It's the only thing these puritan griefers see.

I hate that song.

coco

P.S. I'm a short adult, both in SL and in real life, and anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my butt! (Course they'll have to bend way down to do it, but still!)

My sliders are all set between 45 and 50 and once a long time ago a height detector told me I'm 5'2" tall including my shoes. So judging by the rules of thumb I've read in this thread I would guess that is about right. But the fact is that I'm shorter than most other avis in SL. I've never had anyone say anything negative about my height.........I get good natured teases from some but it's always in fun. But I don't frequent BDSM, Gorean or RP sims either.

I think it was where the OP was and the implied theme of what the sim was about that created the "discrimination". With a very real possibility of legal troubles for owners of sims or parcels for depictions of child sex I can understand the extreme caution some might take.........even something so silly as avi height.

Two choices..........grow a little or don't go there.

Teeny has been 4'-8" (without heels) for 4 years and never been mistaken for a child. On the other hand, I've been told "Your short" about a billion times to date.

with the name teeny they should be surprized you are short?

I don't mind putting on my grown up alt to go into a store like xcite or risque but many people don't have an established alt, mine took three months to shape properly, dress properly and most importantly get used to.

Personally I don't feel comfortable being in any shape but mine, it's called avatar identity.

Adding "a few inches" (more like 2 feet) radically changes my shape unless you adjust other sliders too.

To prove this I invite you to shrink yourself down to 4' and see if your shape still has fidelity then wear this shape around your friends and family.

easy solution................"save all" (that saves the shape too), give it a name you can remember. Then do what you want with your shape. When you want to go back to what you really like, find your saved shape and bingo..........you are you once again. No alt necessary.......no alt involved.

A sim owner, or parcel owner can dictate whatever they want on their land........it's up to you to either abide or take the consequences. Call it discrimination if you want..........but it isn't so. It's rules the owner has the right to impose. You'll loose every time.

Yawn, Meh

Peggy I repeat... "mine took three months to shape properly, dress properly and most importantly get used to." It's not just adusting a single slider. It takes time and it's called Av Identity. However I've done the hard work in my alt and many other people I know have the shapes now created.

Yes, the land owners have the right to make the rules they wish and that is the point of this OP, that there are venues discriminating on height.

Can I pose an interesting question to those "grow a few inches" people because I'm curious now.

Hypothetically you are in a BDSM venue and you see an obvious 8' Adult Av being abused, you look in his profile and see that he asserts the Avatar age 11 and a real age over 18. Hs profile picture is clearly a child Av and his picks all lead to Kid venues. Is this acceptable, or does the fact his profile lists his normal Av age as a child offend you? Can you deal on looks over stated Av age?

Good freekin' grief.

Look, I'm a relative newbie, but for the whole month that I've been reading these forums, age-play threads and "I'm short for my age" threads have run rampant. It's time to put an end to this.

Sex with (what looks like) children is wrong. If you have a problem with that part of the rules, you need help.

So you're 400 gazillion years old, so what? If you look like a child, it doesn't matter what you role-play. Try to comply with the rules for a bit, you might find a new experience you like.

Don't be 4-foot-nothing for a month. Try a different AV for a while, one with chest hair and a mustache. Don't enter the BDSM club for a month or two. Freak a lawmaker out and be a 30-foot dragon in the orgy room. ("You want to put your what, WHERE?" Just avoid the problem till it dies down.

By fighting these kinds of rules and posting these threads, you just keep the scare alive and hurt your own case.

Probably be easier to kick it if theyre tall

Ya lost me at "what looks like." You're saying that every avatar over 6' should not be allowed to do such activities if they want to, kid or not. I have no interest in such, but I'm sure there are plenty of shorter than amazonian humans, fur, hobbits, fae, etc., etc. who do. We're nto all Gigantor, ya know?



The rules say "you cannot have sex with a child avvie." Everything beyond it is allowed, including being a short adult, or being a kid avvie who doesn't do sex stuff.



I'll pass on chest hair, thanks. Ick.

You're new, so you may not understand how avatars are often part of one's core identity in-world (not always, but often). Asking someone to "just change forms for a while" is akin to asking your RL self to do much the same. At best, it's unwelcome.

Mari

(Who could have simply typed "Your World, Your Imagination" and left it at that!)

To be specific, the rules say you cannot use avatars to _portray_ sex with a child.



In other words, you cannot "make a likeness of" it - no matter what you're doing in character, if it looks like child sex, it's a portrayal and is banned.

Also, by definition 3, you also cannot roleplay sex with a child even if the avatar doesn't look like one.

i wouldnt worry about one paranoid person hun. if they look at you and see a child thats THIER problem, not yours. not everyone is freaked out by a short ava. just let that particular shop owner know he lost your buisness, and the potential buisness of your friends. good luck!

because that would be common sense. and common sense does not prevail in SL.

This is actually one of those lovely gray areas, Yumi. Let me quote Robin Linden:

"child avatars are fine, it's the depiction of sexual activity with children that is grounds for terminating an account"

And my interpretation of the policy, confirmed by Chadrick Linden:

"Child avatars are in themselves allowed. Child avatars in sexual situations are not allowed and ARable. Public promotion (classified listing, profile, etc.) of sexual situations with child avatars is not allowed and ARable. Indicating that the *real age* of a child avatar (as opposed to a stated SL/role playing age) is below main grid age is not allowed and ARable."

So it would seem to me to be more than "if it looks like it." There needs to be more of a 'sniff test' to it. Iif a 4' tall adult avatar is having sex, it is not ARable - well, assuming it is not going on in the middle of Orientation Island Public.

I would be curious to see how this might play out in the instances you mention though: would a 6' tall "child avatar" face a problem if ARed for sexual ageplay? How would this be confirmed? Curious, innit?

Mari

I've been 5 foot zero in SL since day one and I hear it sometimes that I'm "a child AV".... Well guess what? I'm 5 foot zero in RL also but tell me I'm can't be an adult and do adult things in RL and I'll slap a law suit on your ass faster than you can say it. It's real discrimination and just as demeaning and hurtful as being told you can't go into a store because you're black. And from what I've read it's against community standards and widely offensive to discriminate for any reason. Ageplay isn't as much about how someone looks although that can be a functional part of it, the real test is behavior and it's pretty telling when you hear and see it. Short people acting like adults are adults not matter what your interpretations are. I have a friend in RL who is over 30 and she's 4 foot 8 inches tall, Asian and told all the time she looks 15 which isn't a bad thing when you're over 30. I'm 21 and I've been told more than once I look younger. I won't grow my AV another inch anymore than most of your 7 foot plus AVs will make themselves short because they aren't "normal" RL representations.

BTW the short people song was funny and it didn't take away the seriesness of this issue.

I saw that episode of Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends too. It's a good idea until someone challenges you eat steak with a fork and knife.

This whole "short avie = child = sexual ageplay" hysteria reminds me of the trouble that several public officials have gotten into using the term "niggardly", some have lost their jobs over it. Although it means "miserly" and has nothing to do with the N word, people are offended by it's use.

I wish people could use more common sense, both in SL and RL......

I always smile when someone says they hate the "Short People" song.

I always wonder why they don't get that it's a sarcastic jab at stereotyping/predjudice, showing just how utterly stupid it is to hate someone for their appearance. I also wonder why they just don't seem to hear the lines:

Short people are just the same as you and I
(Oh, 'cept for size)
All people are brothers until the day they die
In this wonderful world

Of course, maybe they just don't like the tune, lol.

As for this topic - if someone is so unintelligent that they ban people who look like adults just because of their height, I say they don't have nearly enough intelligence to socialize with or do business with. They just don't get it, and I will avoid them.

Common sense seems to be the opposite of hysteria, and the latter is a little too common nowadays.

Mari

Common sense is not as common as its name suggests. Explains why there are so many stupid people unworthy of life. :| Sorry for being so cynical but I had to deal with such a waist of space last night and lost a lot of sleep because of it. But yes, jumping to such conclusions only makes one look silly and up tight with a rather unforgiving object up their demon hole.

Yes, a 6' tall child av should be AR'd too.

Look, I'm all for people having their kinks, but no one wants to have it shoved in their faces. My partner and I don't "get intimate" in public whether it be in RL or SL, and prefer not to hang out with people who do. We keep things intimate, and respect people who do the same. Do we burn a cross in the yards of the penis-panted? Of course not. It's just something we don't want any part of.

By the same token, if I see two AVs cavorting around, one of which is short with no body hair or tan, I'm going to leave. Linden Labs says they understand my feeling, and will take action if so inclined.

Defend your right to be short by being creative, don't just whine that it's not fair. It's so easy to just come up with an alternative for a while, there are so many options out there. There are Ewok avatars, Smurf avatars, fairy avatars... You can't really tell me you're an adult person playing a child av and you have a problem being someone else for a while.

And once the "hysteria" dies down, you can go back to being a kid again. Just don't do anything in public that you wouldn't want the police to see.