Montecarlo Bay Stolen By My Associate

I WANT TO REPORT THIS ABUSE, I REPORTED MANY TIMES BUT NO HAPPEN . THIS IS IMPORTANT FACT. ALL THE ITALIAN COMMUNITY KNOW THIS FACT. PLEASE READ IT


Hello, i'm Filippo Daniels, i own untill 13th giuly the montecarlo bay group with M......D......... (we had 50% both of the place). Yesterday 13th giuly 2007 , i don't know why, when i entered in MonteCarlo bay (owned by the group Montecarlo) i see that 4 parcels of 5 (the casinò, the disco, the harbour and the escort club) ( 9000 sqm about of about 20000 sqm in total) was changed the group and finished , without my permission , in the Ducatillon Investment group (owned by M...... D......... ). I see also that all the casinò games and the sex toys of the club and also all the furnitures of the disco were disappeared. So i try to check in my inventory but i think he deleated all my things (all the furnitures were mine) and i lost more than 90000 L$ in objects.All my building is also disappears and i lost the work of 4 months.
I wanted to talk with this person but he don't reply me. So i reported the fact on the most important italian community forum (secondlifeitalia.com) to scredidate this person who deleated all my things and lot time of work at it. You can check all and please DO it , this kind of person will soon steal other people too if You don't make some things to stop his strategy.


PLEASE HELP ME; I NEED TO TALK WITH LINDEN LAB , POSSIBLY IN WORLD THX FOR YOR ATTENTION

Linden labs does not get into resident to resident dispewts.....

Hi!

Linden Lab does not typically intervene in resident to resident disputes like this. Sorry you have been a victim like this.

You are not allowed to name names on this forum: you may wish to removed the name of your former associate from your post.

Mari

Wonders if this thread is destined to join the Angry Lawsuit and the Rude Nanny threads as a source of fun?

Nah..the OP is far less Arrogant and Threatening.

oh, we can only hope!

yesterday was the funnest time i've had in these forums in a long time.

and i don't see any today to match them.

The whole situation sucks. Your scumbag business partner deleting your items definately isnt legit. AR-ing the guy seems futile with the way customer service has been lately. Continue your attempt at contacting some official at LL who may be able to assist. This isnt a simple resident dispute, this is somebodies stuff getting wiped out without permission. Beyond all that, others can learn from your disaster. Choose your business partners wisely! When forming a group, delegate authority with great care. That good friend of yours may turn out to be the whackjob that turns on you and wreaks serious destruction.

Rule #1:

Never invest more than you can afford to lose.

Rule #2:

Sharing things of great value should not be done
without a legally binding contract making it clear
who is responsible and accountable for what.

It will be a long time before a verbal agreement
between two avatars stands up as an enforcable
contract in court.

Technically it wouldn't be verbal, but I see your point.

Make sure you have something set up (rules/areas of responsbility, etc.) beyond "yah, let's do it"

i rented my 1st store from OP, he spend loads of time and energy in promoting their mall and casino, and they where pretty organised.

Very sorry to hear this

Unfortunately, and this is one of the reasons these types of posts aren't allowed in the forums here, we only know one side of the story. Not saying I don't sympathize with the OP, it hurts to have to suck up such a loss no matter how you slice it. It's a tough lesson to learn. There are only a very small handful of friends in Second Life who I would implicitly trust in such an arrangement. It can't be taken lightly when going into it.

I wouldn't make Fun of this person, they appear to have been genuinely wronged, But i DO strongly advise Fillipo to remove the personal names, and group names from his Post. He won't do himself any good by getting banned form the Forums.

Fillipo, TOS section 5.1 states pretty definately that in Business disputes between you and other players, you are pretty much on your own. If you are fairly well connected within your community, I suggest you make your connections aware of all the details of what has been done, and why. You are Unlikely to ever get your investment back, But perhaps some kind of group, or social sanctions is possible.

Italian Translation provided as courtesy to the original Poster.
Traduzione italiana fornita come cortesia al manifesto originale.

Non farei il divertimento di questa persona, sembrano genuino essere fatti torto a, ma raccomando fortemente Fillipo per rimuovere i nomi personali ed i nomi di gruppo dal suo alberino. Non si farà alcuna merce ottenendo a forma vietata le tribune.

Fillipo, parte 5.1 del TOS dichiara abbastanza definately quello nelle dispute di affari fra voi ed altri giocatori, siete graziosi molto sui vostri propri. Se siete ragionevolmente buono collegati all'interno della vostra Comunità, suggerisco che informate i vostri collegamenti di tutti i particolari di che cosa è stato fatto e di perchè. Siete improbabili da ottenere mai il vostro investimento indietro, ma forse un certo genere di gruppo, o le sanzioni sociali è possibili.

Angel.

Wow do the forum moderators take Casual Friday literally or what?

twitches violently, then staggers off to another thread.....

hello, sorry i'm italian and only now i read the answer at this forum.

I want only tell that 90% of the object are mine and no one is deeded , the fact is that we are both the owner of the group and anyone has the permission, can deleate all the things without my permission.

This post is only to know to everybodyto make very attention to that person and don't trust in him.

i want to make something and tell directly with linden lab because i think the many abuse reports don't solve the situation.

and remember THIS IS NOT FUNNY

Filippo, I'm so very sorry for what has happened, but I don't think there's anything you can do. Since you were both officers of the group, each of you had the power to do what your former business partner did. He hasn't acted ethically (in fact what he did was shameful), but he hasn't violated the Terms of Service as far as I understand it, so an AR won't be of any use.

By all means name him and shame him in 3rd party forums that allow it - but not in any of the official SL forums or YOU risk being banned. I believe Second Citizen lets you name names: http://forums.secondcitizen.com/

On the outside looking in it's almost comical what happened, but I can totally understand how frustrating that is.

You think someone is your friend. Trustworthy, equal, honest, caring, communication. Those come to mind when I think of someone who is supposed to be a business partner. And you got the royal shaft in this deal. You have something that you think is cool, fun, entertaining, maybe even lucrative in it's own way, but all it takes is that little friend, greed. Someone thinks they can get more without you, and next thing you know you are on the outside looking in.

Oh.

I guess it's not so comical on the outside looking in >.>

He also lost a lot of land to this person, and his post alerts and raises a legitamate question; Why doesn't group own land require group concensus to sell? ( plz, i know the reason, but some ppl might not, so let's all be nice here OK? )

What it really raises is this; NEVER share land in a group with other people as officers unless you ABSOLUTELY trust them.

...or don't care about losing the land.


As I don't expect to ever deal with these issues (though that time may yet come) , I haven't done a thorough investigation of all sticky concerns. Never-the-less, ppl who gain karma like this guys partner are so ripe for annonomous greixxxx... scratch that, I never said it, I know nutink...!

YES ZEN; this post want to know this problem also.
I totally quote your question.
Linden LAB make something to make a guarantee is use the group . THX

Ive made someone officer in my land group but...Ive unticked the abilities that I feel are...err.....could be detrimental to me. OK Im a control freak and have trouble trusting. I tend to adopt the hope for the best but prepare for the worst attitude to most things

Here's the problem as I see it. Linden Labs doesn't want to get their little paws dirtied up so the tell everyone in the TOS they won't intervene.....it's a resident to resident transaction so "work it out among yourselves" (paraphrased that quote). What happened to Filippo is criminal (assuming it took place........which I have no reason to doubt). He AR's the culprit to the only authority available in Second Life and gets no response. He tries to "work it out" with the culprit but gets ignored. If he continues repeated to try to contact the person he, himself, could get AR'd for harassment (which is something the TOS states very clearly that the Linden could very well get involved with). He comes here probably to just vent (I know I would want to vent a lot if happened to me) and he's really treading on thin ice since this forum is really not meant for such posts (there isn't a place for this type of problem anywhere on SL forums..........nor in world either). He can't name names without a substantial risk of being banned. Everything is stacked against an innocent resident both here and in world. That sure makes Second Life a gold mine for the unscrupulous and dishonest..........and that is entirely Linden Labs fault.

90,000 lindens is a bit more than 320 USD...........4 months of work is a substanial effort put in to make a little spot of Second Life a little better for those interested in what the OP has to offer. And all he can get is condolences and some really stupid talk of "suck it up and learn from your experience". Those comments and words of wisdom are not getting him any help..........nothing except "we feel your pain". It's the only thing we can do, I suppose.....but it's not any real help for the problem.

Linden Labs has some really serious problems in protecting it's residents (customers) from the less than desirable element that come in to prey on the honest folks (most honest people have a pretty hard time thinking like the dishonest.........which is what it appears we must do to protect ourselves). There needs to be rules...........rules that are enforced. Which brings in some method of enforcement..............and that can only fall to Linden Labs. And they clearly think that is unnecessary. That hippie, communal mentality of love your nieghbor and lets all get along to make a perfect world will not work............it never will work. And there lies a major reason for such a weak and ineffective TOS. Time for LL to take responsibility for their platform.........keep us safe from that element of society that LL refuses to believe exists.

Yes, I fully aware LL (or anyone) can protect us from all risks or harm.......but it could have a method in place to effectively deal with problems like this. And get rid of some of the criminals anyway.

...but...? I was, i guess, not clear. Filippo, yes the only solution to the problem you faced is concensus, of owners. I was also suggesting that it was obvious why that can't work as a rule. So let me clarify.

If they made a rule whereby concensus of all owners was required to sell land, then land might never get sold. You may have a situation where 1 of 10 holders of a deed will not sell( a common trick of meglamaniacs ), it may provide them kicks or a lever to up their portion of the sale, whatever.

On the other hand if you opt for majority rule for sales then might not your sole partner simply aquire a third(an alt) to outbid you?

Anybody else have any ideas? Am i missing some great big picture here?

Not everyone in a group is an owner.........well I guess that could be the situation. Doesn't matter much anyway. A solution might be that any owner if any group decides to sell, or make major changes to the group property a notice is sent to every other "owner" (or even just members) and must be, at least read before the transaction or change can take place. No voting, just a receipt of "yeah, it's been read". That way all others are at least aware of that something has changed. It won't stop an out and out thief but it will expose the asshole to everyone in the group.

And something a little less invasive.............a simple 24 hour "cooling off period" for any sale of group owned land or property. That would at least give others an opprotunity to "protest" or otherwise make their opposition known. There are solutions.........I just mentioned a couple obvious ones. This crap of eveyone for himself is ridiculous. Linden Labs needs to put some serious thought to this very big problem. The idea of everyone getting along and doing the right thing is a myth..............a very big myth.