Shapes - worth it?

I'm amazed when I see stalls selling "shape only" for L$500. Surely it's easy enough to pull a few sliders around to get a nice shape?

In any case, I believe that subtle differences in shape will be swamped by the characteristics of the skin. Any passable shape will look good with a good skin and bad with a poor one. Gross differences apart, two avs with the same skin and different shapes will look more similar than tow avs with the same shape and different skins.

What's easy for one person can be extremely hard for another, and shape design isn't all that obvious. L$500 might be a bit of a stretch though

to be honest .. and to back up Daisy too .. I found a lovely skin for my alt. Fine tuning her shape I am quite proud of her. I have however, especially in just the last few days seen a plethora of avatars using the same skin but some of the shapes are so utterly disproportionate as to be .. well ... not even a bad cartoon shape.
Now there's an opening for a debate: are they idealised shapes by women .. or men?

For 500L I'd want a shape PLUS skin!!

heh indeed. Anyone looking at marketing in SL has a much more colourful/confusing bunch of demographics than in rl.

Well, to create a Perfect Statue like Michaelangelo's David, all you need to do is take a Block of Marble, and Knock off all the bits that don't look like David.

On the surface L$500 may seem a Bit steep, but then, some of the Body Shape creators are quite skilled, and produce wonderful results, and the subtle differences ARE Noticable even if two people are wearing the same texture. It can save you hours (Or in some cases Weeks) of adjusting, and Tweaking to get your form Just Right. If you don't mind the work, Take care of it yourself (I did) Or, If you want the Fast Route, Buy a Shape. SL is all about Options after all.

Angel.

Good point. How much is your time worth? $1.78/hr (L$500/hr)? Unless it's for pure fun, to learn the tools and tricks, for sale, or just plain simple, then I'd definately go buy a good shape for L$500. If I didn't have a lot of experience using the sliders it could be a real time saver.

Hi. I run a shape business called Body Doubles, and I have to tell you shape creation is much more involved than you might think, at least if you are trying to create a SL avatar, within its confines, to look like a real-time persona, movie star, etc.

For instance, let's say I'm making Liv Tyler.... I have to google for an hour or so sometimes to find a picture that I think is doable to recreate in Second Life.. i.e., I know I can find hair similar to the picture, outfit, eyes, skin etc. The hair part is often a pain as most hair in SL isn't quite as "normal" as what we'd wear out to the mall or grocery store. Then after finding a picture to work with, there is the whole shopping process.... I spend hours sometimes matching up hair, wardrobe, a skintone and makeup that matches up with the pic I'm working with, the right shade or eyes, jewelry, etc. On average, I'll spend 2,000L just buying the skin (1400L or so usually), hair, clothing, etc. to get my "look" just right.

Once that's done, there's making eyebrows, then making the shape itself. I personally don't find making the body that huge a challenge.. certainly not worth 500L in and of itself, but sculpting the face can be quite an intricate process if you truly are trying to shape your model to match up with a real-time person... i.e. big sensuous lips for Angelina Jolie.. that exotic slant to her eyes.. her jaw shape, etc. It's harder than you might realize getting that look just right, and many times I end up completely scraping a project if I see it's not going to be a SL-to-real-world-match. Sooo then after all that, there's creating the box, and then I do a whole little biography about the model/star they've chosen, I google until I find their r/t measurements, eye color, hair (hey, did you know Lucy Lawless outweighs Kate Moss by 45 lbs. yet their Body-Fat-Index is the same! who knew.. you better if you are creating realistic bodies!)

Then I prepare another notecard telling the shopper how to get the same look I display on the box...the whole nine yards... I spend all day sometimes on one shape and I don't think 500L is excessive at all, considering the amount of time and money that goes into the job. Sooo, its not just the shape you're getting, but a lot of shopping expertise, research and planning and the sharing of that knowledge with your customer. Your skin and your shape are, in my opinion, the two most important elements that determine the beauty of your avatar, so I find it well worth the money to invest in the best I can find.

Anyhoo, just my 2L worth from the perspective of a shape-aholic.

Cheers,
persia, Body Doubles Shapes by Persia

I was lucky. I was given an very nice shape by the person who brought me to SL. She also gave me my first hair..... and basically that is still the look I have after almost a year in SL (sure, I played a bit around to adjust some small things), but since a year I did not change really... and I am still very happy with the looks of my avatar.

OMG.... I just realized. In 4 days I am a year in SL .

Morwen.

mmmm .. Bilbo loves parties?

Morwen too . Now if I had some prims left I could decorate my house for it

Morwen.

The skill required to drag a few sliders around is rather less than that required for sculpture. Want a more muscular look? Drag the "muscular" slider until it looks right. More slanted eyes? Eye corner up. And so on.

Then I suppose that as a long-time Poser user, I'm used to the whole process.

I took 4 long months to get my avatar shape where I wanted it. Most of that time was fine-tuning here and there. And I just slid another slider 5 points just a month ago. One year into my time in SL.

Shaping is not easy. It's like building. Anyone can do it, but to do it right takes time, skill, and effort.

I advise new Residents asking about shapes to do some shopping around if they want to purchase a shape instead of make thier own. Some shapers are very good, but then you are stuck with that shape until you make your own anyway. Not many shapers will let you Mod your bought shape since you could just copy numbers from there.

The biggest thing I see that people fail to know is that shape and skin work together. You can take a great shape, put on a poor skin and look terrible. Conversly, you can have a great skin on a poor shape and look bad. Inversly, you can make a poor skin or shape look good with an approriately done counterpart.

The combinations in SL on shape and skin are literally limitless.

As to the price *shrugs* You get what you pay for. A lot of those shapers spend hours tweaking the sliders to get that "perfect look". Others just a few minutes. All depends on thie skills invovled and what the buyer wants.

While I made my shape, I paid 4k for my skin *snickers* All in the eye of the beholder.

~Jessy

As of now I'm using a "free" shape. Tried once and liked it. One day I may want to play with sliders, but it's not a concern as of now. As I said, I like it.

I have no problems with people making and buying custom shapes. It's a free world, afterall.

being that i have a shape shop myself... i tell you it took me awhile to make all the different shapes and to really get the right proportions... i even had to hire a model so i was sure they looked just perfect...sure someone can make there own if they decided to and had the time but as some of you have seen some look, lets just say harsh...less realisitic...so leave it up to the buyer to make the right decision and how they should look....and if you think you should be able to buy a skin and a shape for $500 then you are looking for a cheap look...not everybody wants to look that cheap! the skin of course ties the whole look together with a good decent shape! so i do suggest you "doubters" try to make something yourself and see how much time and money its worth!

It amazes me too, its not that hard to make a decent shape and whats even better, it will be uniquely yours.

PS: I can understand charging $500L for a duplicate of a real life person because that does involve a lot of work

Don't you dare touch those sliders Samantha!! <swoon>

ok, a bit harsh with my shape and skin comment mebbe. yes, I know how much time can be spent tweaking. For me it was fun and a voyage of discovery. I can understand also why someone who for whatever reason can't or doesn't want to go into the tweaking, wants to look like Angelina Jolley now! LOL

hmm, Angelina .. Samantha .. Angelina ... hey! don't touch those sliders I said!!!

Some people don't have as much of a creative eye...so they buy...just like RL!
Again leave it to the buyer and $500 is only like aprox. $1.80 thats nothing for 6 months of work!

More like 10 minutes.

I hand out shapes, as I made my own but ask people to 'tweak' them a little, personalize them. More to feel more at home than in a borrowed body.

But then there are shapes... and there are shapes

Morwen.

It took me 10 minutes to get a good imitation of Gigi Edgely. Which I promtly kept editting.

Might redo it though, to hand out. (or use)

Some of us are very "visually impaired" in the sense that we can easily see a face "looks wrong", and we can tell that to faces do not look the same, but it is very difficult for us to say what needs to be changed to make it look more right, or more similar, when the most obvious differences have been removed. I am told to someone for whom it is obvious that the eyebrows are rounder and longer and the cheekbones higher and the chin more pointy it is almost unbelievable that anyone cannot see those things, but for some of us it is really hard. Being visually stupid like that makes things like drawing from a model or fixing the colors of a photograph a mind-boggling effort.

I think anyone can train themselves to be able to analyze details like that (I know I have gotten better with practice and that has helped me with SL), but it's still conscious effort. I can make an avatar look nice, but if I really wanted my avatar to look like a particular person I'd sure hire someone to do it for me instead of bang my head to the wall. (As is, I am happy with my somewhat random look.)

well yes, it's the editing that accumulates the time isn't it?
Like Morwen says, there are shapes .. and there are shapes. My alt gets many compliments from both genders (sorry, none from a furry yet!) and not just for favours I hasten to add. I'm not going to touch the sliders again. She's perfect.
I might start from scratch again though .. another 6 hours LOL

I know that feeling, my alt gets compliments and my rl fiance does too.

An interesting point Janka.
My fiancee had played about with her rather 'Ruthy' appearance but it was clear there was something not quite right. Then the other night I saw her in profile and realised; her nose had the right slope, was in the right place but just too far from her mouth making face flat into the bargain .. could have put a First Land plot on her top lip!
I asked her to just enlarge her nose a point or two: Shazam! from misfit to Amazon with one slider!
It is an art form .. and hell, art sells!

I know what music I like, doesn't mean that I can create that music myself. Same with shapes and textures.

Scritping however I find very easy, different people have different talents.