Someone is using my Store/Club Name ;(

::I'm still about half asleep, so forgive typing errors, spelling errors, and the such::
I posted something about this before and only got 2 replies...because the guy had only named his GROUP the same name as my club and store (rave nation). Well, On thursday, he opened his new club that is named ** Rave Nation **

I went by the place two days ago. They have 15 campin pads, and other than that it's just a hole in the wall club...but here's the problem I'm having now: the place has more traffic than my island after only the weekend. Now when people are searching for my store, this place will be pulled up first. My store and club are both under the name of rave nation and have been for over a year. I'm no Simone, but I do have good enough sales just from my store to pay for my island and then some...and I'm afraid this is going to hurt my business!

I contacted this guy BEFORE he opened his club to tell him that the name had been taken for over a year in SL, and he basically laughed in my face. He thiinks since he isn't selling anything I should just sit back, smile, and watch all of my customers go to his dumpy club while searching for my store or club.

Does anyone know anything about what I can do here? Changing my store name isn't really an option that is easy for me or that I feel I should HAVE to do. I have over 200 different items in my store. I'd have to change the details on EACH one to not say Rave Nation, while at the same time having to change EVERY one of my ads nearly because they all have little Rave Nation logos in the corners. I'd then have to get on SL Exchange and redo all that...redo all my vendors. I'd have to shut down 3 groups and reopen them if I rename. All my classifieds would need to be changed, my blog would have to be changed, signs, store freebies, I think you get the picture! SL has honestly not beena pleasant place for me to be since I found out about this club because I can't help but spend most of my online time worrying about it. When I got up today and saw they had higher traffic than my entire island, I feel defeated. I've been using this name for over a year! This guy was just born in January, two months AFTER my store bought and paid for my island. This feels like being in preschool and arguing over who gets to eat the glue.."nuuu I found it first!"

actually, i was just about to ask a question on this very topic.


in 'real life' (in my jurisdiction), if i want to use a business name that is NOT my own name, i have to register that name with the local government office. if i do use my name, i don't have to register it at all.


for example, if my name is bob doe, then i can name my business:

bob doe's office supply
bob doe's coffee house
bob doe's dragon designs
bob doe's lone wolf designs
etc.

if i want a name without my name on it, i have to register (and pay) for it. that way, if anybody else comes along with the same nifty name, i can say: whoa, bub! that one's taken!


i see a lot of business names in second life, and i was wondering... what about name disputes -- just like sae's here --? what about names and trademarks and slogans? there doesn't seem to be any system in force for these things. it's more like, you know, 'hey, it's a game, i can make up a neat business name and sell stuff!'

i believe the answer is going to be that since there is no regulation on business names, then there's nothing you can do. within the system, that is. (im sure several people will come along here with clever things to do to fight back.)

the other question is, do we want to deal with regulations and business name registration and all that beaureucratic red tape? one thing might be to 'buy' a custom (avatar/account) name that is your business name. of course, that's hideously cost-prohibitive, isn't it?


meanwhile, i'll be doing all my business under just my name, or perhaps my name with something appended onto it. bloodsong termagant's dragon designs? hmm... nah!
(out of curiosity, how many shops, stores, and/or vendors do you think have that name? not to offend any dragon designers out there, but it *is* a rather un-original name.)

While you hold the trademark for the name of your club, unless it's registered there's very little you can do. (Copyright laws do not apply to the names or titles of things.) You can try filing a DMCA with Linden Labs, but my guess is that without registration, they're not going to take action.

Assuming you can afford it, about the best you can do is hire a lawyer and have them trademark the logo of your business. (It's a fairly involved process, so hiring a lawyer is, while not absolutely necessary, fairly important.) Once your trademark is registered, you might try filing a DMCA claim with Linden Lab against the offenders. If that doesn't work, you'll have to take them to court. All in all, you might want to consider the cost and time involved in this process.

Optionally, you might try adding a word like "Original" or "First" to the name of your club (which might be necessary if you seek registration anyway).

Good luck,

Kam

Why can't you simply change the way the classified is listed so that you get more hits? He listed his as ** Rave Nation ** so it gets up at the top of the page. You can do the same. I do sympathize though. The guy is a putz and should not have taken your club name.

hang on till after the soon to be traffic changes it might limit camping chairs a lot and he might go out of business.

Any business that doesnt check for other names first on the search is really irresponsible.

Finally - you could buy a classified ad thats more then his and a LOT of classified ads lower

and basically obscure his ad.

On your Places listing say in the text "THE REAL Rave nation since 2006 .."

Accuse him of being a pedophile and call the TV stations...

Trademarking just the logo wouldn't be much help, because search results display text. Sure, you could put a distinctive logo into the picture, but that's not going to help people find the place, and probably wouldn't help get them to know the difference (without a lot of money on advertising).

The name itself would have to be trademarked.

When I first came to second life and started reading these forums I read a post by a woman on this very subject... she said that because anyone can use any name they want in sl, even if someone else is already using it , she used her own second life name as her business name ... that her friends thought she was crazy but she felt it was the only thing in sl that was completely hers, nobody else could take and I thought it was a good idea when I read it . I recommend you add your second life name to your business like Sae Luan's Rave Nation or something like that or if you dont like that idea, you can add some other word to the rave nation name so they can see its a different business and tell it apart from his.


Elinah

Doing a google search for "Rave Nation" gives 19,600 hits..... suggesting it's not a very original name. Although I sympathise with the OP, and think that the guy who's knicked the name is a moron, I think there's little that can be done.....

I know it's not an original name, but when I used it here in SL, it was the only one, or I wouldn't have used it. I searched SL to be sure there was no place already using the name. I did infact change my parcel name over the weekend to the original Rave Nation, thinking that would help people see the difference. I suppose I was just hoping there was an easy answer to this, that maybe LL had some stand against it or something, but I guess that was hoping for too much

lol you're right, I don't like that idea.
And actually I was very nice to the guy when I talked to him despite my astonishment that he told me he would not change the name of his place. He was pretty mean though that reason alone is enough to make me never wanna have to speak to him again, muchless partner up with him and tell everyone it's ok the guy is using my name. I suppose really all I can do is just but the real or original on my store and club name for now, until this blows over or I figure out something I can do.

This is just a really crappy thing to put anyone through.

I thought it was cool this open registration thing when I first heard about it, but ever since they allowed that crap, SL has been plagued with even more zombie campers, hole in the wall clubs, griefers, and tons of assholes. When does it end?

I wouldn't think that the name of the club would be enough to pass the "distinctive character" test in order to qualify as a registerable trademark. I might be wrong, of course, but it seems to me the OP might have better luck registering the logo--which would carry with it the name. That would enable the OP to claim "dilution of market" in a DMCA claim against anyone using the name, independent of the logo. These are, of course, the kinds of questions the OP needs to talk to a lawyer about.

It also occurs to me that if the OP lives in a Common Law jurisdiction, she might be able to file a tort of "passing off" against the offender (i.e, if the trademark is unregistered and the trademark owner has built business under the unregistered trademark, it might be possible to argue that the offender is "passing off" their business as affliated with the OP's business). Again, a lawyer would know about that possibility.

Kam

You could register a trademark now. The filing cost with the USPTO is around $325 for an application to register, however there is no guarantee that the registration would be accepted and there is also the chance that someone with a prior registration for a similar or even unrelated use of the mark might oppose the application and would now be on notice of your use and could take action against it. If the USPTO accepts the registration, and you send a cease and desist letter to Linden Labs, they might be inclined to take action to force the other player to change the name of his club.

You could also try to get official usage permission from the RL registered trademark holder... the probably is one... there was a "Rave Nation - The Movie" in 2002.

Doesn't DMCA deal with copyrights, not trademarks?

It does, but Linden Lab doesn't have a method for filing trademark disputes--but they have responded to DMCA claims on trademark violations in the past. Essentially, there really isn't a trademark equivalent of the DMCA, since the trademark laws are broad enough to cover infringement wherever it occurs (as it was explained to me). Some companies use DMCA forms to handle complaints, others (like GoDaddy) use Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) forms, and still others ask for a certified cease and desist letter. Since Linden Lab provides a method for filing DMCA claims and not for trademark infringement, that's where I'd start.

Kam

In the past the community respected each other's implied copyrights. The new wave of SL resident's don't seem to see it that way. I think Linden Lab should involve themselves to some degree. This high-jacking of successful business names in SL will soon get out of hand.

This is why my name is in my company name and I used a fairly unique (although not entirely original) 'brand' name.

Filing a DMCA claim involves identifying material you have a copyright on.
The DMCA filing page of secondlife.com includes the following:


At the very least, filing DMCA claims when you know you don't have a copyright on any material, at most a trademark, is lying. Some people consider lying to have some moral or ethical signifigance. Filing false DMCA claims also subjects you to liablilty for damages suffered by the other parties, including legal fees.

Filing DMCA claims that you know to be false, involving LL in a legal action you know is based on a lie, is not the right way to deal with the situation.

I would liKE to copyright the business name

GIAGANTICAL SUN, LLC.

Ahhh, beat you to it. All your trademarks are us.

darn

how about
"Necrosim: Laggy wasteland sim of tacky junk, full of zombie campers" *C*?

ASSUMING (and it is an assumption) that there is no prior registration or use of the name of the club, the OP owns the trademark, just as I own the copyright to all of my in-world created objects, whether or not that copyright is registered.

But you do make a valid point, here. The OP DOES need to make certain that she is the owner of the trademark before filing a claim. That's why I suggested registering it, since validating ownership of the trademark is part of the registration process. (Note: this is different than registering a copyright. Validation of ownership is NOT part of the copyright registration process--it just establishes a date upon which the material was registered, enabling a copyright holder to claim prior ownership of a copyright in court.)

Kam

Trademarks and copyrights are not the same thing.

In order to file a DMCA claim, you have to assert the existence of a copyright to some material.

If you think you have a trademark, and you know that you don't have a copyright, filing a DMCA claim that says that you do have a copyright to material you don't have a copyright to and that you know you don't have copyright to is dishonest - it's lying.

Companies that receive DMCA claims that are properly filed don't make a determination of the truth or falseness of the claims, they just remove the material, because if they don't they lose the safe harbor protection the DMCA provides.

Deliberately, knowingly filing fraudulent DMCA claims subjects you to legal liablity for damages your false claim might cause.

You don't have to use a DMCA notice to tell LL about a trademark violation. You can use the inworld abuse reporter to do that. Or send a certified or registered physical letter to the corporate attorney.

Becoming a Mike Crook over something like the name "Rave Nation" is not the thing to do.