UK Paypal rules being applied to US Players.

WTF???

Oh, no, THIS is the best part:



Basically, "We broke it, but we don't know how to fix it, so you're all screwed. Enjoy!"

You sure that isn't Gina's Ignore List?

Its no wonder there are so many bugs in the code with notices like this

'I have added your name to a list of names that are recieving the paypal restricted error. Unfortunatlly, there is had not been a name removed from this list EVER.'

My English teacher would have phonned this persons Mother and had them both in detention.... sheesh. Any further errors like that and she would have called in the Midwife to join them LOL

Well thas good to know that my 2500 US$ per month tier fee payments will never again be able to come out of a PayPal account that has 1000's K us$ tier fee charged dollars from my residents. Because my name will never ever be removed from their stupid arbitrary blocking list. Which was added two days after taking 1675US$ for my last new island. Incidentally I will buy no more until long after this problem has been fixed and I can sort of trust LL again. The pay pal account used has never been defaulted and has always been in a healthy condition and is a fully verified UK one of over 2 years standing.

As another poster here said don't be too upset if you don't get any response from billing other than the standard rubbishy replies, it isn't just low end accounts getting no response high end ones are getting the same cavalier treatment also, and referred to the Blog, last updated 26th June 2007. I put the year because I think we may still be here in 2008 on this thread. Those of us who haven't bailed out any way.

Gives you a lot of confidence in the billing departments abilities when you read the poorly written and composed answers. Hell if they cannot get that right how the hell will they ever solve something as complicated as removing a name from a list that should not be there.

Initially they would not even allow me to use a credit card either so I was paying my partner with PayPal and she was transferring lindens to me in world. Then I would change them on LX so my delinquent account could be payed and I could avoid having my account stopped after 7 days for delinquency as the email said.

This despite Spike, Ethan, Izzy, Belinda, Charlie, Patsy (senior Billing Linden) Lindens and being assured that my account would be safe . BTW
Jenny Linden is the shirty one in my case who replies to my tickets with the wording that the solution provided is that there is no solution to the problem and we are working on it. meanwhile use a credit card (Which of course carries exorbitant interest rates on top of LL's equally exorbitant charge for changing lindens to US$ on the L EX of over 12%), and keep your eye on the blog for a solution to this problem.

I can only suggest that all those who can submit tickets, do so, and keep doing so until they finally work on the problem or it will join all the inworld bugs and sit in a dusty drawer somewhere.

I know it's been said many times before and one day soon, I believe it will happen, a viable alternative to SL will appear that will offer all that SL offers without all the pieces of string and sticky tape holding it together. With this debacle going on about the major keystone of SLs economy crumbling to dust, I think a short life time is all that SL has left.

Solution:

There is nothing anyone can do about the paypal is resticted, but people are working on it. Please see blog for further updates. http://blog.secondlife.com/?s=paypal

That is this weeks answer from the reopened ticket. 4 weeks old now and people on the forums wonder why others are not spending.

There's clearly a problem and for LL customers, and it is indeed a billing problem. However, I strongly suspect this is a programming error, not a policy error. Getting shirty with the billing Lindens isn't really aiming one's ire in the right direction, and I personally respect that someone in the billing department is at least willing to acknowledge there's a problem that they can't fix.

This problem has been going on long enough that it's surely caught the attention of LL's executive board. The SL stats are a direct reflection of the frustration we're all experiencing.

I suspect either a) there is a panic mode behind the scenes trying to sort it out or b) the blunder is so big that the execs are trying to sell the company.

Don't dismiss option (b) out of hand. I worked for AT&T Wireless when the programmers effed up the new billing/ordering/activation system. The company couldn't change a rate plan, activate a new phone, or set up a new service for almost 3 weeks during the Christmas buying season. It was put on the market the following January. What we're watching now is an error of almost that same magnitude.

well as many times as i have been forced to have american laws impact my life everyday, all this aussie can say is 'tough titties'.

When I first submitted a ticket regarding my restricted PayPal account, I was told that it was PayPal's fault, not LL's. Despite the fact that this seemed unlikely (the account works everywhere else), I contacted PayPal and was told that there was absolutely no reason on their end that payments shouldn't be going through. I relayed this fact to Billing support and was subsequently told that they weren't actually sure whose end the issue was on...some 'acknowledgment.'

And, yes, the June 26th blog does mention the restricted error, but they're still not claiming responsibility for it, just stating that they're looking into it. In any case, "It's broken and we don't know how to fix it, so change your payment method" is not helpful to anyone having this problem.

Do you not think that an American paying an US company with US dollars should be a fairly seemless prospect?

Considering Americans are still the largest group of players.

That process should be as seemless as possible.

Once thats established, LL should work very hard to make the process seemless for As many other countires as possible, as well.

Otherwise its like building a house of cards on a rickedy card table.

LOL.. on that basis alone, LL has been up for sale what?...... every week since its conception?

colette, no doubt it is a bad business decision. but its hard for me to have any sympathy considering how many times its happened in reverse.

mars i think you can even own an estate and be basic.

WHat do you mean "in reverse"?

As an American, when I deal with companies in the UK or Aus. or Japan (As I HAVE) then I have to deal with "forein" money problems OF COURSE. I expect and accept it.

When was the last time you, as an Australian, paid money to an Australian company and had to do it though another country? Never? This is UNHEARD OF for anyone to pay a company IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY in forien currancy. Think about this. What if you ISP started charging you from taiwan or something. It's insane.

When I KNOW I am dealing with a forein entity then I KNOW I am going to have a greater hassle. But when I interact with a company in my own country, that's too much.

If for some reason you seem to find yourself constantly interacting wityh American companies that is YOUR decision, expect billing hassles, it comes with the territory. But next you find a company mere minutes from your own doorstep in Australia charging you from half way across the world, then come here and tell us it's the way it should be...

No one is looking for sympathy, least of all yours. This about an asinine business practice, and would be so no matter what country it was applied in. You can take off your America is evil hat now.

Everyone hates America (except when they want to use our goods, services, blood and treasure).

Sorry, I am feeling a moment of unabashed patriotism.

Not quite sure where you're coming from here, I play World of Warcraft , Blizzard are an American company. However they have a European presence based in France. I pay them in pound sterling. No foreign currency transactions at all with Blizzard.

Where I was coming from is that LL is an American company and currently LL has no way to bill American customers from within the US.

UK customers are sitting pretty... No problem there.

We're just asking if it is too much to expect that if you are paying money to a company in your own nation that you should be able to pay them through a bank in that country, avoiding transaction fees (Currently $17 per sim per month for me, I'd switch to paypal but.. that's not worked for ages either) and having a local time to deal with problems (Such as two friends of mine that nearly lost their sims this week because said UK back totaly screwed up their billing of the sims they owned till LL sends a threatning letter)

But MORE to the point, the reason I posted, it that having people say "ha ha" about American customers getting screwed on billing because they hate America while playing on a system developed and run in America is just going too far. I've seen like 10 posts like that and it gets tiring. That comment was compeltely uncalled for.

I dont see what all the fuss is about. SL is played over a global network, who the hell cares where the paymaster is? When I pay with my credit card over the internet, the transaction is fully transparent. If I only wanted to pay in pounds stirling, I'll get in my car and go to the shops around me. I do not use the internet and only deal with UK companies, that would be foolish, short sighted and very limiting.

What is everyone going to say to all those companies on the internet? They want them to have a local office in every country in the world? LL are hosting a European data center shortly, will that make it unfair for maybe Australians, or Chinese etc?

The internet isn't about country borders or local shopping/information, anyone who thinks everything should be wholly in their backyard, needs to dust off that old fax machine and get off the internet. Sell their BMW and Japanese Hi-Fi etc etc...

It's more a case of why are US players paying a foreign transaction/currency exchange fee when trying to pay a US based company. We don't have to for any other US based company! If we were paying to a foreign company, yeah, we'd expect this fee, but not for a US based company. It's like going across the street to the store, using your credit card to purchase something and wind up with a foreign transaction fee! Rude shock, to say the least.

This is the one place that LL would have been better studying the MMORPG's. Most have branches in other countries (LL has one in Britain, if I recall) and none of us pay foreign transaction fees when there are servers based in that country!

But when you do deal with a UK based company, do you expect them to bill you in , say Argentina? Even if they have branch offices in other countries. That's the crux of the matter. No reeason why customers in Europe can't bill through a European Bank, North American Customers an North American Bank, etc. (All the other nationalistic nonesense aside). It;s just stupid business to do it thais way.

BTW..I drive a Ford. And my "Hi Fi" (You're dating yourself) is a Bose.

i think LL only did this because they had to. if it were a decision to move offshore based in profit, thats bad business. but if they did it because of thier fraud issues?
so a few peeps have taken offence to me not offering any condolances. im not sure if these people are seeking words of encouragement, sympathy, abstract pity, or even comiseration. it doesnt really matter though because i dont feel any of them. its not about 'hating america'. if i hated america i would not be shy about saying so. turning this into some bs political/nationalist pissing thread is entirely too predictable- dont prove me right.

this thread underscores some sense of entitlement a few ppl have. 'how dare they! im an _american_ goddamnit!' hey i have had to use american banks when buying from another aussie, interstate over the web. in the past, smalltime merchants had to use american cc systems to bill online. we got excited when paypal arrived only to find that it was only for americans. years later this is no longer true, i pay every bill online. but this sort of thing has happened to me uncountable times over the years. sorry, i feel no sympathy for american users. you always get better ping, more bandwidth, a better exchange rate, and the loudest opinion. so you pay a fee, BFD.

I'll concede to Nina grudgingly adding that at the very least LL again proved their business incompetence by implementing this witout prior notice, and taking their sweet time in answering to it once it was brought forward.

Don't worry, Nina, we'll get you to hate us yet.

I got the same canned answer to my ticket, which they closed as "solution provided". And the Blog search that they point it to has no recent data.

I guess it is more important to LL that they save a few pennies per transaction by outsourcing their financial welfare to a low-bidder company that happened to be in the UK, rather than that they should actually be able to get competent billing work done. For all that they say they value those Players who don't have credit cards, that have just made it impossible for many of those players to pay LL any money! I guess we should at least be glad that the billing company is in a country that speaks English, and not some obscure language that most of us do not speak.

Wake up. Linden Lab. You took the low bid and hired an incompetent company to do your billing. It is hurting you and it is hurting your customers. Fire them and hire a competent firm.