I will admit when I am wrong...

I guess I owe some a apology. I am big enough to admit when I am wrong so I will. I will admit this whole blog sex thing got under my skin not because of the blog message but because of some of the actions of others within SL. The problem is I took it out on some of the wrong people such as furies and for that I do apologize.

I guess my main concerns are....

Children
Rape
Pretend rape
And pretending to be children

SL needs to find a way and I don't know what that way is yet but they need to find one to target the people who do involve children or in my opinion even act like children during sex. I am sorry and I know some of you do not agree but a line has to be drawn someplace and to act like a child having sex is just not right in my opinion and should be stopped. Do people have a right to their privacy? Yes of course they do. Just like some who are gay, I do not agree with it or understand it however its their business if they choose to live that life style. The whole children thing speaks for itself I think. Its rather clear cut and dry. There are certain things people just know in that are wrong and I truly think this is one of them.

I know there are a lot who agree with me however will not post for fear of being singled out. I was looking at this stuff for 2 days before posting and decided it was time. I was brought up to respect a woman. Pull her chair out before a meal, open the door for her, treat her like the queen she is and have 100% respect for her. That also means being with that only one person. Frankly I do not know how anyone else could handle more then one woman anyway

I do not understand people in this day and age however if that's the type of lifestyle they wish to have then more power to them I guess. The same with furies. I do not understand it however more power to them.

As for pretend or role play rape, I have a very hard time swallowing this pill. First I do not understand why any female would want to participate in any such thing but again that's not for me to understand as I never will. In my opinion I do think this should be 100% banned from SL. I think in my opinion that this feeds a nature that is just not right and in my opinion I do think that the same person or persons will cross the line at some point into RL. That's only my opinion.

If it comes down to anything goes in SL or they crack down, I am for the crack down. I know most might not agree but that's how I feel. Unfortunately there are too many who take advantage of the SL world and now we are all going to have to suffer for the actions of those people. I do think that more of the anger should be focused on the people who have got us all into this situation now rather then Linden Labs. Something to think about.

To sum this up I was wrong to direct my frustrations at the wrong groups of people such as the furies and for that I am sorry. I have never had a forum bring up so much emotion in me before and had to walk away for a bit. I know all of this is a very touchy subject both in world and out.

Well said VooDoo

VooDoo... I just finished looking at your slme.com homepage and had just a few questions:

As someone also working in the body arts industry (I have been a professional body piercer and run my own body arts studio for that last 12 years of my life ...), what answer do you give to detractors who would close you down or limit your ability to preform your art, claiming that the bible calls what you do with the flesh of your clients an abomination and sick and twisted and the work of the devil?

Is there a reason outside of "they feel really good when you're getting oral sex" for the lip ring your avatar sports and which is featured on several pictures of full-lipped young ladies (wow I would have to say at least one is awfully close to needing age verification) on your page?

By your prominant display of confederate flags, should I assume you believe slavery is a good thing and does that mean you're 'into' BDSM?

Your page also features a lot of heavy metal music, heralded by many in the moral majority as the devils music, responsible for everything from suicides to infidelity, and should be banned from america's airwaves. What are your thoughts on the subject?

When you say:


does that mean you DON'T own a "Whose's Your Daddy" t-shirt?



Glass houses, dude, are not a good place from which to throw rocks.

Please be careful running with those scissirs.

Thanks, Brenda, but it's ok, they're the child-safety kind.

I think I like VooDoo already....!

no need to apologize. unfortunately some of us are only human, and in the heat of the moment tend to throw little details into debate that we maybe weren't entirely serious about. the debate then turns into an argument about those little details andd the bigger picture is lost.

been there, done that so many times, but I usually take something positive from the whole experience. i certainly don't hold grudges based on what happens in forums.

i might be less supportive of vampires whose blindness came back to bite them in the butt, but i don't hold grudges.

VooDoo, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but this is not a pill for you to swallow. It just is what it is and if you don't like it / aren't interested in it, that's fine. However, this doesn't mean that it needs to be taken out of the landscape because you find it distasteful. I have a problem with people that want that which they do not understand or find distasteful, eliminated. I find the confederate flag and what it stands for to be distasteful, but it would never occur to me to have SL or anybody else "crack down" on what I consider your bad taste. I see it and I move on.

/me shrugs

That said, role play rape is one of the oldest, most primal fantasies in a human being. Psych 101 You don't have to believe me, you don't have to believe wikipedia either, but they explain it a tad better than I can:

<<The most commonly held theory about this phenomenon is that many individuals turn to fantasies about being raped as a means of reconciling naturally-occurring sexual desires with the intense negative stigma their culture and/or creed affix to sexual activity. The fantasy serves as a psychological device through which the fantasizer can safely indulge in intense sexual experiences without guilt, by absolving themselves of responsibility for participating in the act. Many socially acceptable examples can be found in "bodice ripper" fiction.

Rape fantasies can also represent an outlet for sexually submissive and/or dominant individuals. In such fantasies they can imagine themselves as having or lacking sexual control or power without actually participating in an illegal or immoral act.

Another relatively common theory is that the attraction men feel toward raping is an evolutionary relic of prehistoric man (thousands of years ago, those willing to rape were more likely to have their genes passed on).[citation needed] According to these sociobiological theories of rape, rape fantasy fulfills a hereditary impulse that in civilized society where real rape has become socially intolerable.[citation needed] >>

What I'm trying to say here, VooDoo, is that just because you consider something distasteful doesn't mean it needs to go. The great thing about SL was how tolerant and lassiez-faire it used to be. Now it's just a bunch of people who want to get rid of anybody else that doesn't look or think like them.

And that's a pill I have a hard time swallowing.

K.

Well, I don't mean this harsh or as hard criticism...

I have been raised in such environment.... and you know, to me this kind of things mean not much more then a nice show... it are tricks as you can learn a dog to sit up or to beg nice for a cookie.

I am no queen and have no desire to feel as one.
I am a woman... nothing more, nothing less. You want to respect me? Give me the same rights you give yourself (or that has been given to you... by law, religion whatever). Make me feel equal to you. I am successful in my job, but it is still so often I have to fight for things that are normal for a man.

I am no puppet you need to place in a glasshouse. I can call names, I can kick, say mean things... but I also can be soft and caring. I am a woman, nothing special... equal to man. That is it... nothing more, nothing less...

Treat me for what I am... a human.

*gets off her soapbox*
Sorry, had to get ride of that.

Morwen,

Well said Morwen

Please understand that these things aren't even illegal in RL, in no democratic country that I know of. Not in the USA, not in Germany, not in any other Western European democracy. If you tolerate BDSM, rape play and ageplay in RL (and yes, it's really happening there, submissive women pretending to be raped and adults pretending to be underaged), there's even less reason to oppose them in virtual worlds and computer games, where even shooting people doesn't do any harm.

If you are strongly against things that
– don't harm anyone,
– are performed by consensual adults,
– aren't performed on your land, in public shopping malls or PG areas,
– aren't forced on anyone, and
– are perfectly legal by RL law,
you could as well be against furries or sex roleplayers in general, for exactly the same reason (it differs from my tastes, therefore I want to see them punished).

Well, since Morwen started it ...

I was raised with my mom and older sister, both of whom could (and did) beat the tar out of me at a whim, until I was a teenager. (I'm not saying I didn't deserve it )

Consequently, for a long time I thought that 'weaker sex' stuff was absolute bull. Add to that the 'requirement' to hold open doors, pull out chairs... it all seemed like a raw deal to me.

I prefer equal treatment. Hold the door for the next person coming in, offer help if it looks like the person's in need, etc., regardless of gender.

[edited to stay on topic, stuff added below]


it *IS* banned from SL already- LL's blog says so. They've enlisted all of us to help enforce that ban. All that's left to decide is how vigilant we wish to be.

Morwen stated my sentiments about the whole "raised to treat a woman right" thing, so no need to repeat.

As for the rest.... *sigh*

SecondLife is wonderful in that it is damned near impossible to have sexual things done to you nonconsensually, and the only things that cause harm are the emotions involved - something which, I might add, can happen as easily with unkinked relationships or walking down the street in RL. In fact, I am safer in Hard Alley than I am walking down the street in RL - sad to say, but true.

There is no rape in SL. Simple.

There is roleplayed rape in SL. It will go on whether it is banned or not because it is a primal thing that many people engage in.

You might say that people are "sick" or "mentally ill" for wanting to participate. That's fine, but I don't know that you're qualified to make that assessment as anything but a throwaway slur, and there are people who would happily point at you and say you're mentally ill for wanting tattoos and piercings.

...As for the comment regarding homosexuality, it's so laughable as to go without comment aside from this: it is the notion of a child that people somehow choose to be gay or straight, or that it is a lifestyle anymore than heterosexuality is a "lifestyle".

*sniffs* I sorta like being treated like a queen. Date enough jerks and you start to appreciate the ones who put you on a pedestal...

Hey! those are for kids! stop pretending to be a child.

I totally understand why LL is taking such a stand on depictions of child sex. In some areas of Europe, as those that live there have pointed out, it is illegal to have in your possession or viewing anything showing sexual acts with minors digital, paint or otherwise. Personally I find it greatly distasteful to a degree as the so called "minor" being depicted in sexual acts may not be of an age where they would be sexually developed. If they are then it greatly becomes a mere moral concern and less an abuse one. Roleplay of sexual conduct with minors should be banned IMO.

Ever since Ana, a woman I cared for greatly, was murdered I have take violence against woman very seriously, and strongly think that rape, roleplayed or otherwise should be treated with the utmost seriousness. Though roleplay rape is more consentual rough sex, if you do roleplay it out as a rape, all I ask is that you take a moment to consider it seriously. I personally hate people that take rape lightly, especially those that try to justify it by saying the woman was asking for it, that I consider VERY distasteful. That being said as long as it's kept to it's proper place I have little problem with it aside from personal feelings.

As for any other sexual roleplay people may wish to conduct in SL, I really could not care less as long as it's kept to it's proper places and not thrust upon me where I deliberately do not wish it.

Thank you for posting this, VooDoo; it may help clear the air. There is a great deal in all this that needs to be thought about and discussed in SL, and there has been entirely too much hysteria surrounding it. This subject needs a big dose of reason and mutual civility, and I hope your post will be a big step toward reaching that state.

In my experience, men who insist on putting you on a pedestal generally fail to actually see you as a person. I want to be accepted and loved for all of the things about me, good AND bad, whereas pedestal-types tend ignore the bad and amplify the good...who can live up to that? And why would you want to try?

As for RPing rape, I'm going to repeat what I said in another thread: pick up a romance novel or three. No, they don't portray the most violent forms of rape, but they do make it pretty clear how prevalent the fantasy of forcible sex is among women.

Actually, I'm not so sure this is right. All of us agreed to abide by the CS/TOS... had to if we want to be allowed in SL.

I don't remember anything about having to even READ the blog, much less be bound by policies stated in it.

In my mind, until both the CS and TOS are changed, this is not official policy.

Disclaimer: While this argument might stand up really well in RL court, it doesn't mean the notoriously capricious LL won't still ban you!

Well said voodoo, thanks for your post.

Though I’m not really sure about the rape thing i think its a more of a grey area... since after all when dose harmless BSM and Roleplay become sour... that’s more of a very grey area... sure take out the RL pictures of that. Rape doesn’t mean you treat women badly… remember some guys like the girl to treat them like a piece of meat only there to serve their mistress .
Though to some people a woman dressing up in a dominatrix costume for her lover and telling him what to do for her is offensive but for others its harmless fun. I don't have a problem with that at all but it’s a grey area to some it is. after all in RL they sell handcuffs and whips... but if you buy them in SL its deamed illegal?
But for most it seams like you said the kids thing is pretty clear cut.

Thank you for the post.
*hugs*

In my opinion, the blog post matches this clause of the TOS (stolen from another thread, but I assume it's the actual TOS. Apologies if I'm wrong):

2.6 Linden Lab may suspend or terminate your account at any time, without refund or obligation to you.

First of all, thanks for that. Maybe I can shed a little light on the rape rp thing for you.



What you're not seeing is what goes on in IM. Which is, a lot of "What are your limits? Are you enjoying this? What do you want more of or less of."

Not exactly the hallmarks of a dangerous person.

bravo Morwen simply perfect.

@ VooDoo
i too should and do apologise for my comment to you regarding the badge and bible crack.
but as was stated, you cannot choose ones behavior. and please remember not every short ava is a child, and not every adult playing a child is doin it for sex. in the former, it mainly an adult , portrayingthier rl hieght in a world of "giants", in the latter its sometimes done in a family dynamic.

i understand how you feel regardign those things you listed, but please, be open enough to not assume all falls under that. soemtimes an egg is just an egg.

Well said VooDo, Sorry if I've prodded you myself a bit with overreactions.

I guess what I want here is freedom, there sure are some kinky goings on and I never had an interest in BDSM til coming here, but I still don't see a kick out of seeing child Avatars engaging in sexual acts. But if they are 2 consenting adults doing this and they do it in private rather than public clubs well, they are adults, and stopping them from being capable of doing so is going to restrict a lot of other adult activities. I don't really care if someone wants roleplay a fridge having sex with a gerbil. Of course as real life these are wrong. And I'm yet to see an Avatar being raped actually behaving like I would expect a real person to do in such an event and I believe that would not be what the person doing the alleged raping really wants in most cases. And seeing they usually return for more later I doubt there are any lasting trauma effects.
So to see it depicted from the outside and assume it relates closely to RL rape scenes would be understandable but pretty far from what is really happening, it would also be like assuming what happens at many BDSM clubs regularly is anymore than just slap and tickle rather than true dominant submissive bonding. And one of my alts has worked as a BDSM escort for 6 months so I have been to nearly all the "adult" places in SL and met a wide range of participants in the industry. And childsex is not very common in mainstream sex industry. I could imagine a normal BDSM club found with people chosing to wear child AV's could be in hot water, but many have no staff onsite so how do you control who uses your poseballs. Indead having spent many hours in the foyer of a large BDSM house I could say that I have only seen childlike Avatars there on very few occassions, and never need yet to do more than state our clubs policy to them.

Not always. I do put my woman on a pedestal, but she's also my equal partner. I treat her like that, but I go above and beyond to make her feel loved, and important, the most important person in my life. I enjoy treating her like a queen, and like she matters more to me than anyone else. But I do value her opinion, and who she is as a person. It's a mixture of both. I'd pull the chair out for her, or open the door, but I know she would open the door for me too.

EDIT; VooDoo, it is nice to see you apologize about the furries comment, but I still disagree with you on several points. I do agree wholeheartedly about the depictions of child pornography, I don't want to see it drawn, digital, or real. However, as for the rape... The other stuff, I don't feel the need to make people stop doing those kinds of things if they want to.