The creator is blamefree

How come we all have to suffer from griefers due to the builder of weapons alway putting a little clause "I the creator take no responsibility from the misuse of my creations."

And then they gladly make griefer wapons that attack the grid an all since the griefers will happily pay for a weapon that can cause massive havoc and ruined the fun for everyone else.

After all how much time on SL isn't lost due to grid being down due to grifers?
Lets say 100 000 people is loggen on and a griefer attack maked the grid go down an hour.
Then they effectively ruined 100 000 hours.

And the most annoying part is the weaponbuilders that make a weapon then make the only shield working against that weapon then makes a worse weapon then makes a better shield etc, milking money out of both griefers and people that want to protect themselves against griefer attacks.

Why not make the builders of weapons responsible?
If their weapon is used to attack the grid or grief let Linden Labs politely ask them to remove it from their vendor or SLExchange or SLBoutique. If they refuse or they keep selling griefer weapons?
Close their account confiscate the land they own and ban their IP for good.

Harsh?
Yes but then finally it would be less griefers since they'd need to learn scripting themselves to get griefer weapons.

From what I gather from the posts, blog stuff, etc. it isn't specifically weapons sellers that are creating grid crashing scripts. That's usually done by someone who writes up the script real fast, and unleashes it on the world.

AFAIK, selling specific items set up to grid crash only are forbidden. Now weapons CAN be used to grief, but they don't grid crash.

Does that make griefer weapons ok?

After all the sale of them causes some jerks to ruin others fun.

Whitey-

I get the impression that LL treats people that attack the grid itself very seriously. There are no effective 'shields' for sale against grid attacks.

If you find someone distributing, selling or creating objects that will crash sims or try to bring the grid down... abuse report them.

"Weapons" however, are intended for PvP use, and are NOT meant to crash sims or bring the grid down. Griefing is a mis-use of of weapons, and the weapon creator can't help that. Some shields may be effective against "weapons", but the best route is to use common sense:
Don't provoke the griefer.
Abuse report them if asking nicely to stop doesn't work.
Relocate if the griefer is persistent.
and of course, no matter how tempted, angry or rightiously justified you may be... don't provoke the griefer. Your rage is their win.

I've never seen someone selling a grey goo object, and those are the attacks that cripple the grid.

Well, your question was relating griefing weapons to grid crashes, so I addressed that. There is no such thing as a griefer weapon. There is such a thing as a griefer using a weapon. For many people, PvP is quite fun in SL. For others, there are gangs and mafia's that RP in 'not so nice neighborhoods' for fun. That's how they choose to play, so more power to them.

For others yet, it IS a way for them to grief, but it isn't up to us to dictate what should and shouldn't be sold in SL just because it's used in a way we don't agree with, while others are using weapons legitimately.

Anyone who has read any of my posts on the topic will know that I have an extreme distatste for virtually all the weapons in SL, and nothing but contempt for those who use weapons as a griefer tool. If it were up to me, the only 'weapons' in SL would be ceremonial swords, with no combat capabilities at all. I have zero tolerance for weapons use in the sims I manage. Attack someone with a weapon in a sim I manage, and you're banned from ALL my managed sims, FOR LIFE.

However...

Even I will admit that weapons still have a place in SL, when used for consentual weapons-play and RP's. If someone wants to use weapons in Jesse or Rausch, they are welcome to go there and use them to their hearts content. Same goes for any weapons-friendly combat arena or other venue where ALL participants agree that they are willingly involving themselves in weapons play. So unfortuanately, we can't ban the sale of weapons in general.

Now I will agree, and I believe it is already policy, NO merchant should be allowed to sell or otherwise distribute items clearly designed to crash the grid, or to knock even a single sim off-line. Anyone who creates such weapons should be banned along with the idiot who uses them to crash the grid.

I personally think the same should be said for the maker of a weapon that can knock an individual user off line. That is simply too much force, even for a military wargame.

I own a personal defense HUD for my main avatar and for one of my alts. I only use it in defense mode. Now, it has an offense option that can orbit an attacker, and which could possibly push them so hard as to force a logoff for that one individual. But I only have that feature bacause I couldn't buy a shield as effective as the one I have, without also having the offensive features. I have that HUD primarily so I can get close enough to a griefer to freeze, eject and ban them from the lands I own or manage.

If you are not on your own land, the best defense against a griefer is to sit on a prim, ignore them, and/or leave after quietly AR'ing them. The more you react negatively to their intrusion, the more they like it.

Cage gun

I personally deal with griefers on a very regular basis. I have seen all the types of griefers and seen their methods. It has been my experience that the weapon is irrelevant in a griefing confrontation. Anyone can find a semi powerful weapon for free without even much hunting. Even though these weapons are weaker and free source, freebies like these are used to grief a lot more than any that cost money. Much less than those that cost a lot of money. Trying to take down the weapons dealers would only have a small effect on the lowest percentage of griefers.

Listen to Jopsy. His advice is some of the best you can take about this situation. Griefing is a persistent part of our virtual society, and it probably always will be. But, at least we can learn how to best deal with the confrontations.

"Remember, guns don't grief avatars. Avatars grief avatars!" ^_^

-CARI

I've come across at least one RPG sim where a "cage gun" would be perfectly in-character and in-game to have and use. So even those, as anoying as they are in a shopping plaza, do have a place in SL.

We think alike my friend! Now, where did I put that katana.........

*grins* That's the only weapon I'll openly wear. I have a custom-made Daisho - Katana, Wakizashi, and Tanto, all scripted so they can be drawn and sheathed. It's part of my Japanese court garb, for formal situations in Japanese Roleplay.

And they do nothing else at all.

Last week a griefer attacked a friend and I in my skybox, in a sim that I manage. In 3 seconds they were parcel banned. 5 seconds later, they attacked with a flamethrower from outside the parcel, and I estate banned them, from 4 sims at once. That likely logged them out or sent them home, as there was absolutely NO nearby sim they could get pushed out onto. It longer to fill out the AR paperwork and to report them to BanLink for further proactive banning than their attack lasted for.

Beat me to it. There are some sims that allow caging as part of the RP there. Also, in certain combat sims, it's okay to cage someone occasionally, but not constantly.

what is a cage gun? and grey goo that was talked about in thread befor

Cage gun puts a person in a cage. Get out of it by sitting on the cage

Grey go is a small object that suplicates itself filling up the entire sim and in some cases moving to neiboring sims or an object your given that if you rezz it does it and sends itself to all on yuor friendlist (ye sit has happened) gey goo crach the grid

And some wepons have no use other than griefiung.
For example a weapon by Lil Carducci.
It does the following you fire at someone and it beigs to give you notecards.
All notecards are the same and contains one word "ouch" is the word.
Use of this weapon gives you about 50 notecards in 5 seconds.
The result you are thrown out of mouselook in Combat sims causing you to get shot at while trying to close notecards to get back to mouselook to shoot back.
Or in peaceful sims occasionally when the weapon user use it on several people=Sim crash

Deliberately "spamming" someone with dialog boxes, IM's, notecards, gifts, teleport invites and such are pretty clearly outside the ToS, and, in my opinion, unfair play in combat areas.

It's a clever trick... definitely worth abuse reporting the person that uses it... and very probably deserves a bug report too.

LL has deployed several mechanisms that try to inhibit abusive use of normal features... but it's not always easy to write code that can tell the difference between legitimate and abusive behavior... particularly without adversely impacting sim performance.

Which is as much of an anti-griefer weapon as it is a griefer weapon.

My favourite is the Avatar Mover. It lets you pick people up and move them around. Priceless.

Okay, being serious now. The whole point here is that old cleché, guns don't kill people, people do. All of the weapons mentionned above (with the exception of grey goo) have applications as anti-griefer weapons too. I know a number of anti-griefer police groups who routinely use the cagers against griefers; as I myself have had occasion to do. The fact is, Linden don't take griefing seriously and do nothing about it, so we've no choice but to take the law into our own hands, for which we need weapons of our own.

There's nothing so much fun as when a griefer comes to my land - I love to turn damage on and just blow their head off.

That only works with some (older) cages - the cage creator only has to place a pose ball script in the cage and sitting on the cage just binds you to it (still inside said cage).

That's why you sit on the ground, or a nearby object.. or don a jetpack set on ludicrous speed.

Or better yet.. TP. Or be sitting down before the greifers get to you

Well the end being Lindens doesn't take griefing seriously wich turns guns to an applications for both sides causing it to fighting fire with fire.

I would like Lindens to take action against the ones who make griefer guns made to mess things up like the carducci guns that clearly can only be used in that fashion.
In fact I think I'll make a feature voting on it so those that feel likewise that guns that is used for griefer purposes only should be banned can join together in it.

http://secondlife.com/vote/vote.php?get_id=2350

I won't vote.

You can't dictate what's griefing weapons and what isn't because everyone plays the game differently. Sims allow Carducci guns as part of the RP. Who are you to tell them they can't play how they want in their world?

Pfft. What's the difference?

And for the record - I make guns, amongst other things. My clientele appreciate my products for the care and detail that goes into them, I like to think, or for the originality of design. I don't make sim-crashers or client-crashers or harassing spam projectiles because those are... gauche. And quite frankly not that challenging to do.

I can't dictate it.
However if enough people decide guns like that is only disruptive to their time in secondlife and want them gone they might vote for it and with enough people backing it they will be gone since the majority might deem that their time in secondlife will be better.

I am all for guns used for games like a nicely structured shootout or army based RP.

Besides the carducci weapon was only an example.

(I would like to point out that I have nothing against Lil Carducci personally not a lot of the stuff he makes but that weapon frankly is just annoying)

I can't dictate it.
However if enough people decide guns like that is only disruptive to their time in secondlife and want them gone they might vote for it and with enough people backing it they will be gone since the majority might deem that their time in secondlife will be better.

I am all for guns used for games like a nicely structured shootout or army based RP.

Besides the carducci weapon was only an example.

(I would like to point out that I have nothing against Lil Carducci personally not a lot of the stuff he makes but that weapon frankly is just annoying)