Customer griefed by store owner

Using that logic a security orb is not a grey area, it is a clear violation with the use of scripts to Push or even orbit a resident, persistently, thereby inhibiting there enjoyment of SL.

Most security orbs push the "trespasser" a fair distance away from the property and not just to the property border.

The OP description of his removal is consistent with that of an ejection; I read no mention of weapons.

once again, it is my opinion, this is a personal dispute, sorry you got ejected, we all get ejected now and again weather it is for a reason or not. (orb’s count)

Have a nice tasty piece of PIE, heat it up if you prefer and put some ice cream on it, if you like.

Such a minor incident was allowed to ruin your day, rise above it and enjoy the rest of your SL. Besides I didn’t see your name on the properties ban list the last time I checked, so it’s probably really not that big a deal.

It’s just not worth an AR, IMHO, but if it makes you feel better, then by all means file one.

The relevant section is not actually the TOS, but the Community Standards, which state:



But it's ok to do it if you own the land, right? Actually, no..



Now, putting on my pretending-to-be-a-lawyer hat, the above paragraph in the community standards is very badly written. For example:

* "Shooting" has many meanings. For example, it is not assault to eject someone from your land. But if you make a gun which fires bullets which when they hit, ejects someone from the land, does the fact that the same action now involves "shooting" cause it to become assault?

* "their enjoyment of Second Life" is subjective. It cannot possibly be intended that someone could argue that their entire enjoyment of Second Life comes from being on your land and thus your security orb can't persistently target them, but that could be read into the above wording.

But, there's no basis for the commonly-held belief that it's OK to attack someone just because they are on your land. Nor is it OK to impose extra rules as part of roleplay (because of the "all areas follow the same standards" rule). You can always eject and ban whoever you wish, but that's all. Most Security Orbs use the eject function, so they're generally ok.

well we're starting to conflate terms here..the TOS don't refer to "griefing" for example (er...I think), and what you understand by that term will almost certainly be subtly different to mine. How and ever... I had a male naked av on my island the other day... standing there in public (no peen lol) and trying to edit into my tenant's houses. So that's two counts of rudeness. I sent him an IM, asking him to cease and desist and get dressed (rules of conduct are dropped on visitors on entry to the sim). He ignored me, carried on, so got ejected back home (naked hehe) and banned.

I laid out the standards of behaviour I expect, gave a warning, then when ignored, ejected & banned. I don't consider that I griefed him (he may think different lol). Had he just been standing around, admiring the scenery and I ejected/banned him without warning, or verbally abused him, fired push objects etc etc etc because "hey well I can, so why not - your turn buddy" .... that, to me, would be a griefing.

Yours in peace and harmony
Inc

OMG Inc, here I am paying you rent & I missed the free entertainment, how dare you!

Well, don't forget to build your entire life around the event. Make it the cornerstone of your daily existance. Publish a manifesto about it. Turn it into a movie. Mull it over during morning coffee. Snuggle up against it when you go to sleep at night.

But... did you see them attack anyone else while you were there?

And you actually do want something out the other person: You want to make them miserable.

Other places in Second Life in which you might be rudely attacked: Everywhere

To clarify things:
1) I'm not dissembling anything. All happened as I described it, I'm not hiding ANYTHING.
2) I'm not looking for compensation of any kind. The crime is done.
3) This was no Ejection. I was attacked with a Push weapon. How do I know this? I carry the Mystic Tool HUD which clearly indicated in my chat line that I collided with an object owned by the offending party which orbited me.
4) When confronted, the offending party clearly challenged me for a retaliation by stating "There's more of that where it came from"," Whiner". This was a cowardly attempt because her parcel land settings don't allow for Object Creation, Object Entry or Script running, so I had no way to defend myself.

Sheesh...Calveen. Sorry about your experience...and even sorrier that you've had to fall prey to the "blame the victim" mentality which seems to have sprung up around your post. I'd be pretty bloody frustrated, too...if such a thing were to happen to me, in-world. There's nothing more mystifying than to be orbited out of the blue.
But...who knows why people act the way they do?

Without the other resident's version of events we only have one side of it.



If the crime is done then why won't an Abuse Report suffice? If we're not seeking compensation of any kind they why must we attempt to affect their enterprise by warning others about it?

Advice: Thanks for the awesome read about the maul at the mall, however, an Abuse Report regarding the attack is plenty and will be investigated by the Lindens and they will determine whatever punishment, if any, needs to be meted out. A warning thread simply signifies impatience with the speed of justice. Wait until the Abuse Report is resolved and then see if you really need to begin transmitting this on all multi-channel sub-space bands to all systems within the western spiral arm of the Milky Way galaxy.

WOW. I'm speechless. I couldnt possibly imagine griefing a customer... Obviously she's got issues with people showing up on her land just to get freebies (I'm guessing that's the reason she gave you). There have been times when someone has shown up at my store to grief, or just be a pain.. (sorta a 1/2 griefer). When that has (rarely) happened, I've banned and ejected them, but that's not griefing. If she's got such issues with giving away freebies, then why have them? You should post the name of the store and the name of the store owner... So we can avoid shopping there. I cant imagine griefing people at my store. I work hard enough on my reputation as it is, I wouldnt want to give cause for people to bad mouth me.

There is one other POSSIBLE recourse besides sending an AR that may or may not have an effect (if you are the only one thats been hit, probably not, since the AR system has a tendency to get clogged with trivia). You indicated that the store owner was a group MEMBER. Not necessarily the owner. Maybe she was a renter? If so, you might also drop an IM to the group owner. If by some chance that is the case, they might at least boot her out of the mall.

Actually, LL has a stance on security orbs (and like devices) that they must adhere to certain "reasonalbe" levels. An orb can Eject without any problem/issue/ Slight Push is allowed, but there needs to be a warning (with sufficiant time) and can not be excessive (Orbiting or tossing for 6 sims).

LL calls it an "overly excessive" security system.

While you'll not find issues of it in the ToS/CS, I've seen many warned for such and told to "tone down" their security systems.



Read closer. The OP described "flames". Security devices do not need effects. They just do their job. Eject esspecially has no effects. With "flames" I can think of three things to toss someone @50m mentioned by the OP. All three are weapons.



I'd say it is AR worthy. A person can do as they wish with their land, but they can not set their land to Safe(NoDAmage) and then use Push style weapons against arbitrary Residents. Esspecially not while advertising as a place of buisness. While I'm unsure of what CS regulation that would violate (I don't feel like going through that long document just to find the right subsection), it is harressment at the least.

IF the OP had been doing anything to advocate being Ejected/Banned, fine. Well within the rights of the landowner. However, if, as was posted, the OP was doing nothing and was simply attacked for no reason, then LL would have the logs to see that.

While saying it is only a "minor incident" doesn't change a thing. Break a rule, pay the fine. RL is bad enough with people getting away with minor things because no one cares. Don't you feel we should make SL a bit better than RL when we can?

~Jessy

In response to the OP’s original question.

No - there is not a formal Business Bureau where these kinds of things can be posted to warn potential customers, not one with any teeth, anyway.

This is a personal dispute.

oh God, I wish I knew what shop it was so that I don't go there.....

Quoted for truth.

probably not hard to find being he mentioned the sim it is in
just look at the sim and see the busy spot would be my guess

not interested enough to go look

op also mentioned
quote
3) This was no Ejection. I was attacked with a Push weapon. How do I know this? I carry the Mystic Tool HUD which clearly indicated in my chat line that I collided with an object owned by the offending party which orbited me.
end quote

no mention of flames this time

also
quote
4) When confronted, the offending party clearly challenged me for a retaliation by stating "There's more of that where it came from"," Whiner".
end quote

I dunno about anyone else but.. if someone tells me there is more where it came from.. that is not a challenge to me for retaliation, it is a warning for me to get out or I will get more of the same.

Well, I will not go into all the details written in this thread...

But one thing I wanted to say. I am in RL business. There is one thing that is not done... negative behaviour towards a customer or maybe soon to be customer (meaning being rude, insulting, attacking... whatever).

As business person you have to control yourself, even when you are exploding from anger inside. Outside you stay relaxed and polite. If a customer has done something that cannot be tolerated, then you make this clear to customer, privately and without exploding emotions. If you feel the need to act, you do in the ways allowed to you... and as silently as possible and were needed by persons who have to rights to act.

For me this goes for RL, but also for SL.

Morwen.

I think no serious business owner would act this way without a reason. There are cases where I ban without a warning too, if someone tries to shoot my customers, cages them or otherwise harasses them.

Often the banned person sends an IM in the lines of "I didn't do anything, I was just standing there" or "Someone else started it, I had to defend myself." That's not for me to judge; if there was trouble before the ban and peaceful silence after the ban, I see no need to investigate any further.

As long as we don't read both sides of this incident, I wouldn't attempt to judge what might have happened.

Who cares? They were engaged in business with the store owner by camping. Store owners would not provide camping chairs if they didn't perceive a benefit. The OP was a valid particpant in the business of the shopkeeper. This is capitalism: both sides were deriving benefit from a perfectly valid arrangement. To say she was "not a customer" is splitting hairs: she was a valid particapant in the business that the merchant offered.

However, I don't think this is an "actionable" claim. Assuming it was indeed the correct person using the av, and not someon who guessed a password, I would simply move on and warn your friends. Take your business elsewhere. The world is full of assholes and there's no point in fretting over each one.

On the off chance that it was a case of a guessed password, you might want to try IMing the shopkeeper and relating the incident, as a gesture of goodwill. But, if that's happening, no doubt the truth will come out in other ways. And if you're wrong you'd only be feeding a fire so I wouldn't bother.

Just move on, and have some fun getting irked when telling the story. Don't waste your precious daily allotment of stress on it for long.

It is *always* griefing if it is instigated for no reason. Otherwise, it's self defense, (the way I see it) LOL

Thanks Learjeff, I have moved on... BTW, the store is now mysteriously gone! All that is left is a much enlarged field of lucky chairs... 30+. Oh, and if you happen to pass by, don't forget to visit the huge skyplatform where they keep their 24-7 bot army, more than 20 motionless, female AVs. One of them looks like a teenage hooker to me. This is weird....!

Oh noes! And with the store gone there's nothing to warn anyone about anymore.

Hey, here's an idea... get a friend, find a box way way way high up in the sky, hop on the pink and blue balls there, and then come back and warn us about the terrible terrible things that happened.

On the other hand, I guess you could continue with the constant updates about the non-commercial parcel where the attack that none of us really cared about took place.

Happy motoring!

*beep beep vroom vroom*

Elex...you haven't been right since they took your blankie, have you??

hey Sam.... I'm thinking of holding a "skyclad" weekend for all our residents to disport themselves in all their pixel glory..... entertainment enough? We can give The Bump star billing.....

This is nothing new. Either they do this or they won't exchange their faulty, shitty products they sell you. Like that Jewelry shop owner that was recently mentioned in this forum by name.

And btw I'm glad his name was made public although some people here got more upset that he was mentioned by name then what he had done to a good customer. Unbelievable but true.

This is a really dumb rule and people like the one who did that to the op and that fake Jeweler know they won't be mentioned so they continue to do this sort of thing. Filing a complaint with LL is nothing but a big waste of time as they won't do squat. Best way to hit them back is letting others know what they did and taking business away from some of these money starving indiviuals who love to call themselves "designers", "shop owners" and such."

No. If Second Life teaches us anything, it's that adults are generally more immature than children.

umm i'm finding it very hard to believe that the store owner's attack was unprovoked. considering she was the one who put out the lucky chairs, runs the store, and created the clothes in the lucky chair...it would be imprudent of her to "attack".


"eyebrow itches madly and raises of its own accord"