Any computer experts out there....

I would definitely go Athlon at this point and get a better video card with at least .5 gig memory if you don't want to be left in the dust. (I use 2 video cards with 1 gig each). And make sure it is a PCI-E as above, not AGP (obsolete).

I would also install a faster drive just for SL. 10000 rpm would be better.

OMG sorry bout that hun... was in a hurry

LOL! Well my geek buddy's a decent sort. He tried the "reciprocal" thing a LONG time ago (like 10 years) and he's still my best friend.

Re: Linux and mainstream.. I get what you're saying, but the thing about Linux is that it's always being improved (that's the beauty of open source) and so the criminals are always playing catch-up. It's kept small and clean and bug-free, whereas Windows is huge and stodgy. If you want to do motor comparisons... it's like Linux is a Ducati motorcycle: fast, powerful, and agile, whereas Windows is a station wagon: slow, underpowered, has a turning radius of about 50 feet, and way too much wood paneling that covers up the rust.

If you only have $100 in the budget for the CPU, I'd go with an Atlnon 64X2 (the dual core version) rather than the Pentium D -- better performance, less power consumption. (That said, the Pentium D will work pretty well.) If you've got another $100 available, the Core2 Duo is good.

I'd upgrade the power supply, so you have some power available when you want to upgrade the video. Go for at least 450-500 watts; even more if you're contemplating an SLI or Crossfire setup (dual video cards) some day. (But bear in mind that dual video cards have very little benefit for SL.)

The 7300 is a bit weak for SL, but it will work. (The integrated S3 graphics won't.) If you want to wait on spending for video until the next generation of cards sorts out (the NVidia 8000 series and the ATI X2000 series) -- the ones that have/will have full DirectX 10 support -- it's a viable stopgap; just don't expect the frame rates that people get with a higher-end card. No, SL doesn't use DirectX, but DX10 support will help for other games, and support for the new features will eventually find its way into OpenGL and be used by future versions of Second Life.

Not true, Athlon 64 and Athlon X2 are the same socket format.

Where I think Dana is confused is that origonally Athlon 64 came out on socket 754, then 939 ( and X2 appeared as 939 ) then AM2 ( again both the single and dual core ).

Buying a new computer with current prices try to go for core-duo ( NOT pentium D ) or, if price wise AMD is your only option, a Athlon X2 chip on AM2.

DO NOT go Pentium 4 or Pentium D.


Oh and regarding DX10... only games programmed to run with DX10 ( Second Life uses OpenGL - hurrah ) will need it AND so far tests have shown than most people will run DX9 unless they have a really high end system as DX10 SO FAR was proved to be a resource hog.

In other words.. don't bother with Vista or a DX10 system. Stick with DX9 ( all games, even DX10 capable, will have DX9 fallback for a good time yet - unlike MS game designers know it's suicide not to ) and XP and you'll be fine for, probably, years.

OGL isn't a layer on top of DX.. it's 100% indipendant, and due to it's cross platform support and open format IMO superiour to DX.

Internally, for efficiency, some drivers will call the same code but you can have DX0 ( in theory ) on your system if just using OGL.

I agree with Katier.. if you really don't want to try Linux, at least just stay with XP (or 2000, even better. XP is a fancy version of 2000, only with more bugs.)

You’ll have a hard time finding any new pc’s with XP loaded. I just went with a HP refurb (hp1654n) that was less then $450 that came with XP:

Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.86 GHz, 1066 MHz front side bus)
Memory: 2GB PC2-4200 MB/sec (Motherboard supports up to 8GB)
Hard drive: 250 GB SATA 3G (3.0 Gb/sec) 7200 rpm
Optical Drive: 16X DVD(+/-)R/RW 12X RAM (+/-)R DL LightScribe SATA drive
Modem: 56K bps data/fax modem
Video Graphics: GeForce 7500LE (256 MB DDR memory / DVI, S-Video, VGA)
Sound/Audio: Integrated High Definition audio
Network (LAN): Integrated 10/100 Base-T networking interface
Memory card reader
Vista Capable
Operating System: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 with Update Rollup 2

So far it runs SL like a charm, and it’s a nice start for upgrading later.

DK

Sadly these days games sometimes require XP, also XP is nice and mature so a fine option. I stuck with 2000 until I found I had to upgrade due to software insisting on XP. Should be noted this is rare.. and 2000 is seven years old.. so using that as a guide, XP ought to be good for what, 4 years at least?

Microsoft are going to stop supporting XP at the start of next year. Dell have tried to put up a bit of a fight by loading XP on some of their models but the end is nigh. Personally Vista reminds me too much of Windows ME at the moment and that was a right pile of pants. Hopefully Vista will prove me wrong.

Anyway, processor, Intel Core2 Duo is the daddy of good value processors at the moment. However Athlon X2 is still bloody good. So if the price difference is large between the options, go for the cheaper one but it's worth paying a few quid extra for a Core2 duo.

A decent graphics card will help a lot but so will plenty of ram.

<i>newer, better, vid cards are about to come out.</i>

Isn't that always true?

Re: Linux, I fully agree with Onyx, but I'm a complete and utter Linux geek.

SL runs well on Linux. The minefield there isn't getting SL to run, it's getting good drivers for your video cards. If you're willing to use the proprietary drivers, I *believe* that the recent Nvidia drivers work well enough, although you may get a slower framerate with them than you would under Windows with the same driver (dunno).

I'm one of those who wants to avoid running proprietary drivers. If you're like me, you have to be a *lot* more careful in choosing your video card. Free3d.org seems to be one of the best resources for figuring out which video cards will be supported with the open drivers.

-Rob

My Vista laptop runs SL just as well as my XP desktop.

As long as you have an Nvidia graphics card you should be fine.

Wow thanks for all your replies!

Will mull them all over and then make my decision!

BB

Incorrect. Microsoft will stop selling XP somewhere next year. They will support it (updates e.g.) for the next 5 years.

Morwen.

But does Everquest II and Starwars Galaxies run under Linux? Or does Poser/Maya? Will my Ipod work under Linux? Or my PDA?

I think first consideration you have to make... can I do what I want to do under Linux?

And no, I am not against Linux at all. Only sceptical how some real Windows applications will work under it.

And remember, a lot of people are like me... they need help with maintaining their computer.

Morwen.

I hope I'm not too late to this party but here's a few things to look at:

1) ignore the CPU thing. In fact, buy the cheapest CPU you can find, because there is nothing worse than having to watch a mega-fast CPU you've poured a ton of cash into, having to run slow because it's on a motherboard that fell out of a christmas cracker.

2) Avoid motherboards that mention VIA chipsets. They are OK for a bit of web surfing or running as a car PC but if you want the machine to fly, get Intel (or equivalent for Athlons...). It's the motherboard that gives you long-term grunt, not the processor. Once you get the machine, go to www.intel.com and APPLY THE UPDATES - almost every machine I see hasn't had this done and the difference can be... startling.

3) make sure you can add more RAM later. Lots of bottom-end sellers fill up the RAM slots so you have to come back to them for bigger chips: surprise surprise, quality motherboards have lots of RAM slots and quality vendors leave some empty, so upgrading is cheaper.

4) There is actually a reason why the top-end sellers charge more money. Pound for pound, a premium brand machine will run harder, for longer, than the cheaper alternative: Personally, I buy second-hand Dell Precisions off Ebay, for exactly this reason - a far more stable and well supported platform than something made from bits from the ground up, despite Dell's occasional tendency to kick out a lemon. Plus, originally a Precision would have been way over £2,000 new, and getting that for £325 just appeals to my sense of stinginess...

thanks for your imput Gummi, all noted

A $800 computer bought for $2300 at Bestbuy WITH Geeksquad input? How should I put this tactfully? In a word:

Worthless.

Find a neighborhood or family member gamer that's under the age of 20 and let them loose in newegg.com. Let them build you their ideal gaming rig. You'll get a much more powerful machine for less money. *giggle*

I rather listen to advices of a professional who can determine what I really need, rather then letting a youngster go on a wild drift.

Edit: I consider a professional not some working in a computershop or something like that. But a professional system-administrator or something like that, who understands what I will going to do with a new computer.

Morwen.

I'd ask several differnt people. People's areas of knowledge, even among"Professionals" can vary in terms of hardware and software expertise. As in Music and Art, sometimes an amatuer can be just as talented as a so called professional. That wild eyed 21 year old gamer in his Mom's basement may be a better source of information than the Systems Admin.

And his mom's credit card has a bigger limit than the Sys Admin's budget.

I am that professional, IRL. Geeksquad monkeys behind the counter are worth the shirts they wear, not much else. ;3 I have built my own PC's since my first "Premium, Professionally built" system where I got ripped off. And I have my hands in it all, from PC's, Sun Micro, SPARC, Alpha, Opteron, Intel and AM2 to just start the list - within the walls of a University's engineering department. Windows, Linux, OS-X, Solaris - touched it, broke it, learned to fix it all.

It is my professional opinion that your average 10 year old these days knows more than any Geeksquad member - except a certified one. I met one of the certified ones while looking for parts in the back of the store for entirely wrongful purposes. I was wearing my Sun Micro polo shirt and he walks up in his uber geek outfit and strikes up a friendly chat. Turns out we were both licensed Sun partners - and I walked away with new respect - for that Geek. Counter-monkies are unfortunately mostly untrained folks they take off the streets to man the counters and sell gadgets and extended warranties.

Alas, I have had GREAT experience with SL on AMD platforms, running nVidia boards for video, 2 GB RAM minimum - the rest is up to you. 10k RPM SATA drives seem to really boost up SL's speediness overall - and SL is now Multi-threaded by default, even in the mainline version of the client viewer, so multi-core, multi-processing WORKS. I have a Sun Micro M2 with a pair of QuadroFX 3500's in it that will render SL @ 140+ FPS. I got another AM2 dual core (6000+) with a single 8800GTX-OC that hovers around 90 FPS even in loaded sims. This is on an nForce 590i chipset board. The fellow earlier that said motherboards are for the win is definitely on the right track. For serious SL or any OpenGL application you're going to find that you will have to reach for a totally different set of parts and a different mindset of machine. The Geeksquad special and most consumer grade pre-packaged, store or manufacturer's outlet web page bought materials will not find you the real stuff - Look to a higher power, or build from the ground up. The later will get you some serious horsepower and save you a few hundred bucks along the way.

a) family member geeks: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

b) under 20's: you'll get a load of illuminated fans, a case in a fetching shade of graffiti, and a mis-matched pile of components each of which can score a huge benchmark test but none of which have been tried in concert together.

c) sysadmins: $4,000 of IBM fault-tolerant workstation with 256 MB of RAM and a mouse with a depleted-uranium ball.

*grumble* I am still waiting for mine to show up in the mail. Do you think my mistake was sending it via USPS rather than UPS ground? It weighs 75 Lbs. ;3

Edit: The mouse alone that is...

Geeksquad is a purely US thing. Here in the UK the closest we have is PC World, and they are painful. I really don't go with the 10 year old idea - you can't wave your professional chops at us and then point to the people who don't have the exposure you do, as the next best thing in making the right choice. The difference between good performance and just ticking the boxes on the spec-sheet still manages to elude professionals, every damn day.



Can you point to where this was said? There's still sticky threads in the tech forum that deal with setting processor affinity, so it can't all be plain sailing. Or, should those threads now be un-stuck?


Simpering here... you're too kind. I guess the quarter-million people who read what I write about computers each month, for the last 15 years, must have been winner-pickers too