Rentals in arrears How long to wait?

Question...

If you have rentals and your renters go into arrears how long do you wait before returning their stuff if they do not reply to IM's or have not been on in a while?

Thanks.

It depends. If they have been a long time tenant, I'll wait a week or more. If they've only been with us a short time, or if there's a waiting list, I'll return their stuff right away.

I used to wait two weeks. Sometimes RL gets in the way. As Lindal said, unless you have someone to take over the place, give them as much time as you can within reason. But two weeks is plenty.

I would also say it depends as well, but I would be sure to have a clear policy in place in your covenant/rental agreement outlining how these types of situations are handled. Of course, covs are not really binding in any way but at least you have clear, written policies on such matters should disputes occur.

I have rented a lot, and still rent a homestead. I fully expect to be evicted when I am in arrears longer then agreed upon. Probably 3 days or so. Seems reasonable enough, it does not take very long to log in and pay, or send an IM with a reason.

If you ever got a covenant in front of a judge, I'd bet on it being found to be binding.

The problem with covenants is that it's largely impractical for the tenant to enforce it. But please don't encourage thinking that means they're not binding.

Hopefully you've got a covenant stating "no grace period" and that kind of thing. One second over the line being defined as their fault. And don't be shy to use it. I know the margins in the land biz... believe me, for what you are making and the trouble it takes to make it... they are outta there. Yeah, I try to contact people too... but realise that many, many, people will simply take advantage.

It's easier to see on a larger estate. Watch after December holidays when people have bills to pay off. So they lag on rent, or whatnot... well gee, I have bills too, but I think SL land barons often get paid after the tv cable company, netflix, that fluffy pillow impulse buy and the new iphone.

We are treated as "major corporations" with "deep pockets" (heh). I get financially shorted literally several times a week ~ a few dollars here, a few dollars there... yet were I to even once not deliver as a land baron, people would be screaming "evil land baron" in the forums. The *only* way to show that you are serious about rent is to enforce it... otherwise rent will be skipped more and more. And of course, we have absolutely no grace period with Linden Research payments. I'm not a big player, but close to 9000 USD/month is daunting when a few dozen decide they need a short term loan from you, all at once.

There are tech issues, people do go to the hospital... all of that... but in the grand scheme of things, truly decent people will respect and understand that they shouldn't take advantage of you, and it's not like anyone is shocked if you can't buy $L now and then ~ the platform's issues aren't exactly news to anyone.

The decent thing for a resident to do, is to tell you why they might need extenuating circumstances first... and then you have to wonder, how is it that a person with a powerful computer, a job, a credit card, an internet connexion and so forth is hard up for ten or twenty dollars, so hard up that you need to be supporting their luxury entertainment fees while they allocate their money elsewhere.

So long story short... let 'em go whenever you want. They aren't holding up their end of the bargain. If they come back and it was all a mistake or an emergency or something, that's fine. Set up another lovely rental for them elsewhere and carry on as before. And if it's a merchant with location critical issues... tough noogies. All the more reason they shouldn't short you on rent.

Oh I agree that you could probably send in the lawyers and argue that a covenant is a legally binding contract, but like you said, it's just not a practical course of action for most people. LL won't get involved in resident to resident disputes and in reality, I don't think most people would go through the expense, time and exposure of real life details in order to uphold a covenant in a court of law. Point taken though, and I probably could have said not binding in any "practical" sort of way.

I'm really surprised there are any rentors in SL that don't use some automated system to just 'pay this to renew' and a failure to do so locks out the land and returns the objects.

Grab something like the Hippo system, and put it down - once its automated they have a ticker to watch, and you don't have to get personally involved when somebody fails or refuses to pay.

Most of them are not properly worded and would be useless in law.

Further, they use reverse grammar. People in SL often say covenant when the mean a restrictive covenant, or say easement when they mean a restrictive easement.
- Beside the point that most restrictives are void on public policy grounds, using the wrong term for them just further makes them near-impossible to enforce.

I use hippo, I dont have it remove objects but it boots then after 2 days so I was wondering how many most allow.

My policy is 2 days in arrears. Generally, my estate managers try to contact the resident before evicting, and the box sends them repeated notices as well. I do sometimes give more time to pay, especially if someone is a long term tenant or if they contact us to request an extension. The way my boxes work, they have to pay for the overdue days, so if it's likely in my mind that they will pay, it is worth giving them the extra time.

I agree with Desmond - people really have unfair expectations of SL landlords. I am expected to jump to tenants' aid whenever I am logged on (and even when I'm not, I get annoyed "Where RU???!" messages all the time), read their minds "But I was going to pay!", give them refunds no matter how lame the excuse "My gerbil had a hangnail and I need my 700L$ back" and allow them exceptions to core elements of my covenant, such as no ban lines. When I don't do these things they expect, I am an evil bad megacorporation and they are going to report me to the Lindens.

I work very hard to provide good customer service, even to tenants who are rude and uncooperative. Sometimes, often in fact, I am TOO nice. I want to have a reputation as honest and fair. However, that doesn't mean putting up with people who don't pay or won't follow the rules.

For RL real estate, precise and correct terminology is certainly necessary.

But this isn't RL real estate, these are contracts concerning licenses to use services and/or other intellectual property. I can't imagine any court invalidating them on the grounds that they wouldn't be valid if applied to RL real estate. You'd have to make a case that one side was interpreting them that way while the other wasn't - an unlikely proposition.

The idea of them being invalidated on public policy grounds is even less likely. There is no public policy concerning virtual real estate.

Well in my view, is someone else waiting on the plot?

If not, it's more effort to get a new customer to keep an existing one. Say you poof all the ojbects back and get nobody new and your renter comes back tomorrow? I wouldn't restart my rent with you if all my stuff had been sent back regardless.

So if there's nobody waiting and it's not being actively used by that renter and they seem to be out of SL a bit, where's the harm in waiting until it's needed?

Simple question to answer really.

The velvet glove is somewhat frayed today, letting a gleam of the iron fist peep through.

we have been pretty lenient....esp for long term renters who have let us know they have RL issues keeping them from sl. if those folks dont keep up with us, after repeated attempts to contact them over about 2 weeks we generally boot them and resell the land.

for renters in shop and apt spaces, the for rent sign comes up automatically so we let them lag for a week or so unless someone else rents the space. in that case we send the first renters stuff back and go with the new renter. sometimes we have had the spaces rented within minutes of the for rent sign coming up and we do let them have some lag time but let them know someone else is interested and we need them to pay or move out asap.

this method has worked well for us....btw our automated rental system was custom made for us and sends out notices several times to the renter before their rent comes due over a period of 7 days prior.

The problem is this: once you have no waiting list, then nobody needs to pay anything because you are in "customer retention" mode. If Fred down the street isn't paying, and neither is Barney or Wilma or Betty... why should you?

People actually test these waters all the time. Evict a few of the obvious ones quickly and early, and suddenly that behaviour goes away.

Hey, it's just a matter of fairness and good faith dealings. To both residents and to me, equally.

I have my rates posted and so forth; for those who like to haggle there are lots of 'discount' regions willing to haggle, and the threadbare business models of such places are a classic "get what you pay for" scenario. How long can you last on a region and expect not to pay tier, or barely pay it?

For those that want a stable place that won't vanish overnight... you actually gotta pay tier regularly or it won't *have* the solid reserves. What comes around goes around, real fast, at nearly 9000 USD/monthly. The vast majority of people pay me only about a week or two in advance ~ if I had a reserve based on average payment, I'd constantly be one or two weeks away from collapse. Instead I've got 20 to 25 thousand USD on tap all the time, just to ride out any emergency that comes along.

The openspace mess last year cost me about 8000 USD ~ how many private estates went under due to that? I didn't because I do get around to evicting those that don't pay, and in the long run we *all* were far better off.

* * * * *

Lindal this is one of those issues, I think Ayesha might agree, talking about it is like one of those therapy sessions where you "get it all out" then we go back to being quiet, ever smiling land barons again

Just it really hurts to get shorted all the time, week in, week out, and never say anything. I never begrudge anyone who just made a mistake now and then, hey we all make mistakes. But if it's a pattern of abuse it gets kinda personal at that point.

If they try to borrow language from one area of the law, to apply to a situation in another, and do both incorrectly anyway. That's a series of flaws, that would likely leave the pseudo contract invalid for vagueness if not for public policy.

Maybe no one else is waiting because no one realizes the plot is available.

The landlord's best combination of self-protection and flexibility comes with a strict covenant, but using judgment in deciding how strictly to enforce it.

Whatever grace period you want to give in terms of paying the rent shouldn't be an official policy, but an unofficial one you keep in your head. You can decide for yourself on a case by case basis whether to be a pal and do someone a favor, without being obligated by your covenant. If people start taking advantage of your nice nature, you can just start enforcing the letter of the covenant. That's the more honest way (and more legal way, if these things were ever actually legally enforced), than the widespread practice of, "I reserve the right to unilaterally change the covenant at my whim."

Des, I was just teasing you a little. You're quite right, people will take advantage. With only 1/2 sim, I'm one of those "threadbare" landlords you mentioned. Not that the build or the amenities are second rate...they're not. But I don't have a $9,000/mo. tier bill, either. I'm happy any month I make tier.

Perhaps if I *do* want to work up to your heights, I should be more hardnosed.

It's not so much about being tough... one of the nice things about being stable is that it allows me to be a softie once in a while, for the right reasons and the right people.

But for anyone seeking advantage methodically and annoyingly, yea, they get Des with his business hat on.

Lets assume the landlord knows whether there's a wait queue. If the person is evicted and the plot isn't taken within the time period before tier is due, landlord loses.

As I said that person could come back the next day.

Desmond raises valid points but then it depends on whether the landlord is here just to rent and has no involvement with their clients, knows nothing about them or what might be happening in their RL.

There is no requirement to do so and I have no idea whether the OP operates such a model or Desmond. It's not my issue. All i'm saying is that if the landlord knows the renters, if that renter is suddenly out of character and there's no other demand, I don't see the gain in rushing to return.

Understandably if someone is renting out hundreds of plots on lots of sim, they wouldn't have time to know their clients. Renters are nothing more than a financial transaction.

Different people operate in different ways.

Actually you would be surprised... it's amazing the number of people you can know. I have about 650 different parcels (I cut and move 'em a bit) with about... oh maybe half that many paying rent*, and double that number (friends, spouses, visitors) hanging on.

And I know most of 'em to some degree, with very few exceptions. It has to do with the fact that the group chat is constantly going while I'm working, and the fact that some have been around for upwards of 3 years now. You get to know people fast...


* edit: meaning one person rents two parcels, not that only half are paid for

I was in a situation once in which I was renting land. I thought I had paid rent on time, because I went to the little payment box on the date due and put my money in. It was the last thing I did that night before logging out.

The next day, I found everything on the land returned to me, and my land sold to someone else, because I supposedly didn't pay the rent.

I went to my transaction history. My payment to the rental box was recorded. Then some minutes later, there was another transaction recorded that the rental box gave my money back to me. The landlord's rental box script had been malfunctioning.

As strict as you may want to be, I would hope that any landlord would have some sort of system of confirming that it's appropriate to end the rental, rather than doing it automatically or by function of script alone.