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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
02-20-2007 15:01
As the Terms of Service make clear up front:
Linden Lab may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion, effective upon posting the amended Agreement at the domain or subdomains of http://secondlife.com where the prior version of this Agreement was posted, or by communicating these changes through any written contact method we have established with you.
which is distressingly common in service contracts (at least in the US). Now the ToS doesn't even address First Land, but as contracts like these afford, they can change their offerings at any time and you can naught but complain.

I'm not saying they should renege, just that they can. And yes, you could probably pursue them under California fraud statues, but you probably wouldn't prevail and your costs would far exceed any recovery you might make.
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Stephen Zenith
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1,029
02-20-2007 15:04
From: Malachi Petunia
As the Terms of Service make clear up front:
Linden Lab may amend this Agreement at any time in its sole discretion, effective upon posting the amended Agreement at the domain or subdomains of http://secondlife.com where the prior version of this Agreement was posted, or by communicating these changes through any written contact method we have established with you.
which is distressingly common in service contracts (at least in the US). Now the ToS doesn't even address First Land, but as contracts like these afford, they can change their offerings at any time and you can naught but complain.

I'm not saying they should renege, just that they can. And yes, you could probably pursue them under California fraud statues, but you probably wouldn't prevail and your costs would far exceed any recovery you might make.


If they never guaranteed you would get first land, there's nothing for them to renege on.
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
02-20-2007 15:19
From: someone
If they never guaranteed you would get first land, there's nothing for them to renege on.
From "Land: Get Your Land" which I will expect to be changed shortly:
Second Life's "First Land" program allows Residents to purchase their first parcel of land below the current market value. Parcels are 512 square meters and sell for L$1 per meter to those who have never owned land. Please note: First Land plots are subject to availability. A snapshot of the available land can be viewed by...

Nope, it is not a guarantee, but it certainly sets an expectation and to renege on a non-binding promise is still reneging.
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Stephen Zenith
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1,029
02-20-2007 15:25
From: Malachi Petunia
From "Land: Get Your Land" which I will expect to be changed shortly:
Second Life's "First Land" program allows Residents to purchase their first parcel of land below the current market value. Parcels are 512 square meters and sell for L$1 per meter to those who have never owned land. Please note: First Land plots are subject to availability. A snapshot of the available land can be viewed by...

Nope, it is not a guarantee, but it certainly sets an expectation and to renege on a non-binding promise is still reneging.


Thank you. You saved me the hassle of digging out that exact section which proves my point.
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Ann Launay
Neko-licious™
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 7,893
02-20-2007 15:31
I think the point here is that there was no real warning and no recourse for the newer Premium members who had yet to buy their First Land. Over all, discontinuing the program will probably be for the best, but good business practice suggests making every effort to keep your customers happy. LL needs to do something for those new Premiums, rather than sending the message of, "Wups, not fast enough, too bad for you!" Which is how a lot of those members feel right now...
Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
02-20-2007 18:25
Considering the skyrocketing price of land, combined with the gaming of the parcels - This is no surprise.

It is unfortunate that it adversly affects people of course.

Does it mean the lindens are rotten - nah, put yourself in their shoes for a minute. Its got to be hard to provide this crazed second life of ours.
Reece Gunawan
.com wannabe, .mobi king
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 413
02-20-2007 19:50
What I've never come to understand is why they don't just make low prim sims and offer them to new players. No experienced player will want this as it's pretty much useless to have a small lot on such, however it would allow new players an affordable place to live and grow in SL before deciding if they should consider making a considerable investment. Doesn't that sound like a better option than interfering with first land, interfering with land prices, etc?
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Evil Land Baron :D
Currently does not own any land :eek:
Gillian Waldman
Buttercup
Join date: 1 Oct 2006
Posts: 697
02-20-2007 20:39
I just think the no notice thing is a bit low...but perhaps those new premiums with no first land will be compensated in other ways (bigger stipend would be one way I suppose). I am not one of those...but I would be bloody mad if I were. However, I have to wonder if the zero notice was by design to stop even more damage to the land system during any interim period? Either way, they should have come up with other perks for Premiums before doing away with the single biggest reason people pay for Premium. Asking residents for their opinion now seems rather disenguous.
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Reece Gunawan
.com wannabe, .mobi king
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 413
02-20-2007 20:45
From: Gillian Waldman
I just think the no notice thing is a bit low...but perhaps those new premiums with no first land will be compensated in other ways (bigger stipend would be one way I suppose). I am not one of those...but I would be bloody mad if I were. However, I have to wonder if the zero notice was by design to stop even more damage to the land system during any interim period? Either way, they should have come up with other perks for Premiums before doing away with the single biggest reason people pay for Premium. Asking residents for their opinion now seems rather disenguous.


Agreed. I'd imagine anyone would be darn angry if they signed up for premium, say a couple days ago (nevermind those searching for longer!), have been actively searching for first land -- land which they didn't find and are now basically buying overpriced lindens with their premium seeing as they have no land anyway.
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Evil Land Baron :D
Currently does not own any land :eek:
Ace Albion
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 866
02-21-2007 04:19
From: Reece Gunawan
What I've never come to understand is why they don't just make low prim sims and offer them to new players. No experienced player will want this as it's pretty much useless to have a small lot on such, however it would allow new players an affordable place to live and grow in SL before deciding if they should consider making a considerable investment. Doesn't that sound like a better option than interfering with first land, interfering with land prices, etc?


They would just have all their stuff in 0 prim temp rezzers. Oh, like they already do.
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Merlin Maximov
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2006
Posts: 16
02-21-2007 05:00
There is another thread to discuss the end of the first land programme. This thread is about the new continent.

So do we know how much land they're going to be releasing each day? Maybe after a few days the price will start to fall, unless land barons are well unionised to keep prices high by buying high!
Brazil Comet
Registered User
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 122
new continet and prices of land
02-21-2007 07:13
Lindens keep pushing 8 sims per day of new land that might intented to bring prices down.

But as long as people pay 3-3,5 k per sim in auctions, then I really can't see any obvious reason for the land to be sold under cost.

As for the new continent
My opinion is that the new continet land is a bit boring, and the water also the same.
I simply don't like it much.

But 12 hours yet to go and they are all at 3500 US$ and some more. So it seems there might be a competition of who is getting first pieces of land there.

Instead of seeing a further decrease of prices , as we have seen a slight drop in day to day auctions lately, we see new continent sim prices to climb again at more than 14-15L/m. and this is aquiring cost. If you add a small margin on top for reselling then you see where it goes.
So, for the moment it seems the effect that new continent has is to help prices increase a bit.
Rockwell Ginsberg
Boss
Join date: 3 Oct 2006
Posts: 560
02-21-2007 07:18
Also, a lot of those new sims are waterfront. But still, 3500 is a lot.
Brazil Comet
Registered User
Join date: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 122
02-21-2007 07:22
i bet the first one (which is currently at 3675) will hit 4k at the end
Sae Luan
Hardcore 4the Headstrong
Join date: 6 Feb 2006
Posts: 841
02-21-2007 07:28
From: Winter Ventura
If he did... he deserves a second T-shirt!

("I got the last first land" on the front... and "and I flipped it for 1000% profit" on the back)

lol!

I thought part of the point of LL bringing in new land was to even the land crisis out...

Though as bad as it is to see first land go, the people who first land was meant to benefit weren't even able to get first land. Why should LL fuel a growing fire?
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Rave Nation Owner
saeluan.blogspot.com
I accept most custom work. IM in world for details.
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
02-21-2007 08:40
We Premium members get a good deal anyway - it costs about the equivalent of a glossy monthly magazine to keep me in world each month (plus extra for my tier land but that's my fault). I get most of my RL agent's membership fees back as stipend anyway, so I do well out of it!
Cherry Czervik
Came To Her Senses
Join date: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 3,680
02-21-2007 08:47
There was a short anmesty re island costs ... maybe there will be a short amnesty re First Land.
Kira Zobel
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 345
02-21-2007 10:03
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7H_r0ANVLk
My dance on the new land before it becomes trashed with...trashy builds. :'(
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