NLP modelling of good Second Life content creators?

Does anyone know if Neurolinguistic modelling of any SL content creators, or av specialists, has been attempted?

Would anyone be interested in it, if it was?

Huh?

I would be very interested. NLP is awesome.

NLP may be awesome........but what the hell is it? Three letters to make some acronym? Great for us less than experts. I'm not too proud to ask. That is some really vague topic as far as I can see for the average user.

Why ask a question of only maybe 2% of the readers? Some "I know more than all y'all dummies" trip or something?

What the hell is Neurolinguistic modelling ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming

Edit, summary:

Oh boy that helped a bunch. So now we are all going to go to pyscho theropy? I still don't know what the hell the OP is asking.

the average user should try wikipedia.

"NLP teaches that a person can develop successful habits by amplifying helpful behaviors and diminishing negative ones. Positive change can come when one carefully reproduces the behaviors and beliefs of successful people (called 'modeling'). It also states that all human beings have all the resources necessary for success within themselves."


The question is... can you really do that?

i still don't see what kind of content creation can help with this. the only content you need is inside the brain.

and "behavioural" is a little Pavlovlish, maybe this theories worked in the 70's and in the 80's. i think now peoples hard-disks are to fragmented for such features.

From my experience with a few of its practitioners, NLP is pretentiously presented hypnosis and those involved with it are often quite evangelical in their claims for it as a panacea. Sort of like rebirthing, EST, and any number of other variation on instant (or at least simple) enlightenment that can be charged to your Visa or MasterCard.

Though if any content creators want to somehow incorporate it or any other psychospiritual practices into making stuff, sure. I've got first dibs on the feng shui-based sim anti-crash consulting business, though. "Of course you've got latency, you oriented the money tree across the celestial axis! But just buy this $L500 crystal wind chime and hang it there over the dance pads and it will all be better...."

So this is all about copying other people's behavior? Why didn't the original poster say that?

Hmm...do I see anyone's behavior on the forum that I want to copy?

Beats me why some people can't speak in plain English.

Sounds like the Self Help Book of the Week.

Yumi, you are suggesting that content creation is a behavior rather than a skillset?

I would think, if you are seeking relevant NLP models, that one of anyone successful in the visual arts would do. I'd be interested if you think there is anything unique to SL content creators that differentiates them from other visual artists.

NLP reached popularity first as an "alternative" therapy, and during that time a LOT of bogus practitioners hung up their shingles. I would be wary unless you knew the person performing the NLP well and trusted their process.

Personally, I would put more faith in a howto video from JiN Amdahl ( /327/8c/186597/1.html ) to guide my life, but to each their own.

Well no - as I understand it, the NLP theory says that everything at the end of the day is expressed as a behaviour. Because you are a skilled builder, let's say, you choose one prim rather than another for a certain purpose, which eventually is expressed in the behaviour of clicking a certain option.

The idea of NLP is to identify the perceptions and structures that generate these useful behaviours, which are often not consciously available. If you ask most builders how they pick prims for things, they'll say, "trial and error". If you ask them how they pick the first thing to try, and then how they interpret what they see to decide on the next thing to try, they'll boggle and be unable to answer. NLP seems to offer a way of understanding that, making it teachable, which would be incredible valuable.

I'm not really sure NLP would help with that, content creation is basically an artistic, meditative process - well at least it is for me at any rate (although I admit the scripting portion is pretty much a mechanical process).

I guess if NLP can model ZEN meditation it can model the artistic content creation process - but for me the design always seems to come visually without words or symbolic constructs, I just see something in my mind that I know would "work". If it comes together pretty easily I know I'm on the right track. The steps in-between *can* be mechanical and rote - setting texture repeats and offsets, creating a rough model to see if the physics "fits" - but if that's all NLP models then all its doing is immitating a procedural process without a guiding vision and that wouldn't result in anything.

What I think is really happening is, an artisic type is more responsive to the non-symbolic patterning system in the mind that works at a synthetic level, the natural tendency of the mind to categorize, associate, and aggregate sensory information with emotional weighting and tie that all together into scenarios and patterns [if that doesn't make sense, and I'm not sure it does or not since I'm not trained in any of this, think Jungian archtypes] - all of which is an intensely personal and subjective process - and how the heck can NLP pattern subjectivity? A fools errand I would think.

Swoooosh!!! Right over my head

Yeah, I get like that sometimes when I'm tired

You know how when a ship sinks in the ocean, it starts out smooth and lifeless, but over time coral and other stuff "sticks" to it, and eventually you get small fishes, and then big fishes swimming around in it and all of a sudden that lifeless hulk of a ship becomes a thriving eco-system? That's sort of how things like memes and jungian archtypes and "Hey, it lust *looks* right" works, things like ideas and memories start "sticking" to something convenient, and a whole ecosystem of ideas and art and philosophy flourish out from that - bits of fluff clumping together and sticking to something solid, and those little bits all carry emotional and historical baggage with them, because everything we do always has some emotion or history tagged to it - its just how our minds work. But you don't clump things together in a uniform layer, it all tends to bunch up into little islands, and because this is all going on in our head each person has a different layout of what the islands of thought look like and what they're made up of.

So say one of these islands is "lazy day at the beach", and everyone's had them, and for some the things that first come to mind are lying in a lounge chair with a trashy novel and being utterly at peace with the world. They decide to create something that brings up that emotion within themselves, and its a lounge chair, and its the perfect lounge chair for them to feel that emotion because its so simillar to the ones at the local beach they went to when they were growing up. But what they're creating is based on their own memories and their own emotions, right? So how can they make something that has the same resonance for someone else? Well, if their little island of "lazy day at the beach" looks a lot like other people's "lazy day at the beach" then that lounge char will have a similar impact, and people will buy it because of that.

But NLP is observational. How can you observe a memory, or the deep resonate chord of an emotion? And that's why I think NLP can't be successful here, because it is all so individual and subjective and hidden from view.

Well, everybody imitates because it's human nature to do that. We don't need NLP to see imitation everywhere. You learn something imitating going through the same process as the imitated person did, some people call it "Tutorials".

You may be able to learn and understand the tool techniques and the apparent way something was done, but you cannot capture someone's creative essence just by imitating. I don't believe in that. Well not through modems anyway, maybe a real master in flesh and blood living in your house for more than one year or something, making you wash the windows several times a day and such, like Karate Kid.

For me creativity is chaos. Either you "see it" or "don't see it", "understanding it" has actually little to do with creativity, i think. And this is my opinion. It's like verbalizing dreams, after waking up you actually make up new rational and coherent bits to glue together the hole sequence because that's the only way to tell the tale, but dreams are most of the time chaotic and in very rare cases you can remember a hole sequence of events. The brain can actually mix all the the senses together in one big perception - that's chaos. I've heard that some people can manipulate their own dreams, but like NLP, it's not a very scientific method.

I believe if you live with someone (flesh with flesh) for a long time you can get some of your partners manners and gestures, and actually "react" to events almost exactly the same way as him, and that's about it. But takes a long time and it's real flesh.

The problem however is that there is a great deal of ability in building that tutorials cannot or do not teach. I wrote a little about that earlier - tutorials will show you how to rez a prim, for example, and what the cut controls do, but they will not teach you how to select a prim that looks good in a particular context. Yet people evidently can do this.

It isn't really trying to "capture someone's creative essence":

A prim that "looks" good in a particular context IS the creative essence. That's the creative power, it's not about just creating things - everybody can make up something - but as you've said, putting that thing in a particular context, that is what your essence is all about and that comes from your own history, education and a lot of personal memories and experiences.

Such a thing would concern me greatly, and even more so if it were to work.

* * * * *

Artistic expression in any form is a storytelling, a discussion, a provoking statement, an evocative narrative... if it doesn't express, if it doesn't stir the soul, well, it's just another thing.

...and the ONLY way to end artistic expression is to say: "YES! The artist is RIGHT! There is not one further word to be had on this subject, this expression of it is Perfect."

And thus paradigms end, movements die; the subject is Over until another artist comes along... usually breaking every and all rules and presumptions, and opens the discussion afresh with new insight.

So... say one copies a man who painted a Chinese junk sailing at sunset.

And makes a million of these pictures.

Soon, it goes from individual expression to archetype to mass produced crap, to kitsch once 999,999 have been thrown out and there's only one left, plus one old guy who remembers when there were zillions of these back in the 50's when he listened to Esquivel while watching the audio output on an oscilloscope.

That's my fear of neurolinguistic modeling.

I understand what you mean.. and I'm not an expert on this, but from what I'm given to understand, NLP isn't supposed to be about that.

NLP isn't supposed to be about making other people do exactly the same thing as the person who painted the Chinese junk, so that they all paint Chinese junks, in exactly the same way; it's supposed to be about looking at how such a person views the world, and views the junk, and similar, and what parts of that view create and motivate the person's artistic development.

For example, some people see objects in the world, in their mind's eye, as having lines around them - and try to draw them that way. But how do the best artists see objects? And can other people train themselves to see them in similar ways? I don't think that, just because they could, they'd wind up drawing them exactly the same..

But the method by which you search for it is at least potentially a pattern.

I don't get it. When building, there is no searching for a particular prim that will match the context. You just create a basic prim then shape it to attempt to match the shape in your mind's eye. It's similar to shaping clay. You don't search for the right shape of clay, you manipulat the clay until the shape fits your mental image. You can imitate the technique, but not the vision in the creator's head.

Yes - but when you "manipulate" the clay, at any given moment you have to manipulate it in one particular way, one particular movement of your muscles. Likewise when you shape a prim, you have to choose which parameter to try altering next, and which direction, etc. So your brain does briefly do a "search", internally, to decide which thing to try next. That's what I'm hoping could be patterned, since after all, there are a lot less possibilities for where to click to alter a prim than for how to move your muscles shaping clay.

The same thing done by the same person with the same hands and the same brain end up different (if you're not making an exact replica - I'm talking about craftsmanship). And the behaviour/method was the same while doing it, how do you explain that?

This is not a conscient process. How can you teach something you're not aware?