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If the Answers 'forum' is a non-starter, where to next? |
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Vance Adder
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 402
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06-03-2009 07:03
I'm still not convinced these forums are going away.
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Rock Vacirca
riches to rags
Join date: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,093
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06-03-2009 07:12
I'm going to be able to make it to the meeting this afternoon; would people mind if I cut and paste their statements from this thread onto Notecards to give to Blue? Alternately, if you're a lurker and don't feel comfortable speaking up in public, but want to see these Forums continue, send me a PM or Notecard, and I can pass it along at the meeting. You can quote me, np. Rock PS Would also appreciate, if you have time, to raise the following forum post with Blue, asking for clarification on a few ambiguities in the Adult Definitions, if he will take such questions: /327/a3/323695/1.html#post2449504 Reproduced below, and edited to be used as specific questions, for convenience: ADULT "The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use." Q. It is still not spelled out if this applies only to public areas within a sim, or to private areas too. Would a couple engaging in sexual explicit conduct using their poseballs, sex bed, whatever, in their own bedroom in their own home, be subject to this 'Adult' designation, or not? Q. Photo-realistic nudity. Does this relate to the use of images, in pictures on a wall, for example, or does it also encompass avatars, walking about nude, wearing a photo-realistic skin? What if they then change to a non-photorealistic skin? "We may take into account whether apparent or reported adult content or conduct on a particular Region serves only an extremely limited or passive function" Q. What is 'passive adult conduct'? MATURE "For instance, social and dance clubs (unless those clubs promote sexual conduct or use adult search tags), bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks (and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning) all support a Mature designation so long as they don't host publicly promoted adult activities or content." Q. This seems to encompass all activity that is not Adult. If you own a sim that is a beach or park, and you use it for creating, or learning, you really have to designate it as Mature? PG "A Region may be designated PG if it does not advertise or make available content or activity that's sexually explicit, violent or depicts nudity. Likewise, sexually-oriented objects such as "sex beds" or poseballs may not be located or sold in PG regions." So all SL residential sims need to be rated Mature, if one of the homes on that sim has sex poseballs, or a sex bed in it? |
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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06-03-2009 07:47
Oryx, of course you can cite anything I've said that you think might help.
As Nika may recall, almost a year and a half ago, we fought this same battle. Even back then, we were trying to get the software upgraded, and also to get some moderators put in place. (This was not long after Strife threw in the towel, and long before Katt's brief and uninspired tenure.) At the time, there was a general expectation that the forums would implode from abuse, and that this would be just fine with LL, so we argued that the forums provide crucial support to LL's business objectives. To wit: * Improve customer retention o Reduce frustration of new residents by answering their questions on product usage. o Provide a welcoming social environment and community for all residents (e.g., Forum Hangout) o Improve "stickiness" by deep engagement of residents: the "helped" quickly become "helpers" committed to their SL experience. * Increase revenue per customer o Provide guidance on the complex process of land purchase, thereby reducing buyer anxiety and increasing premium memberships and tier. * Enhance content quality and access o Supply specific expert advice and expand total resident knowledge for existing and new features, particularly in technical areas of scripting, building, textures, animations, etc. A recent example is the propagation of techniques for sculpted-prim modeling, for which knowledge and tools would not have been discovered and disseminated as efficiently by any other means. o Disseminate information about new and established content, venues, and services that benefit resident experience and in-world economy. * Reduce demand for support services o Provide near instantaneous answers to questions, assistance with difficulties, and confirmation or refutation of perceived service disruptions, reducing volume of incorrect, redundant, or unnecessary support tickets. o Promote and facilitate efficient use of other Support tools (E.g., pjira: encouragement, instruction, pre-comment discussion, cite already-identified issues). * Improve service quality o Expedite identification of service disruptions and partial outages. o Quickly spread knowledge of workarounds. Now some of these could be partially met by the "Answers" thing, if it worked properly--that is, if it weren't based on the unusable Clearspace framework. Others of these objectives are simply not part of the "Answers" remit, and will require more development if they are to be hung from that flawed framework. LL would do well to consider just how much they want to invest in re-implementing the established features of a forum--features conspicuously absent from the discussion functionality so far used in Blogs and Answers. _____________________
Archived for Your Protection
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LittleMe Jewell
...........
Join date: 8 Oct 2007
Posts: 11,319
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06-03-2009 07:54
I have not decided yet, I would like to wait and see what happens before I decide. _____________________
♥♥♥
-Lil Why do you sit there looking like an envelope without any address on it? ~Mark Twain~ Optimism is denial, so face the facts and move on. ♥♥♥ Lil's Yard Sale / Inventory Cleanout: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Triggerfish/52/27/22 . http://www.flickr.com/photos/littleme_jewell |
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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06-03-2009 08:08
Oryx, please feel free to tell Blue that if they just upgrade these forums to the current version and institute a social subforum, instead of closing this place down and forcing us to use wikis, blogs, Q&A software etc, I would promise to behave myself in future.
Pep (I can't think of a more persuasive argument.  )_____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Treasure Ballinger
Virtual Ability
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,745
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06-03-2009 08:11
Oryx, please feel free to tell Blue that if they just upgrade these forums to the current version and institute a social subforum, instead of closing this place down and forcing us to use wikis, blogs, Q&A software etc, I would promise to behave myself in future. Pep (I can't think of a more persuasive argument. )/me saving this post for when you accuse me of having Faulty Memory Syndrome later. |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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06-03-2009 08:17
I'm going to be able to make it to the meeting this afternoon; would people mind if I cut and paste their statements from this thread onto Notecards to give to Blue? Alternately, if you're a lurker and don't feel comfortable speaking up in public, but want to see these Forums continue, send me a PM or Notecard, and I can pass it along at the meeting. You can copy my stuff if you want, but I doubt it will do any at all. In order to make the leap from 'vocal minority' to 'better listen to these guys' the trick is not to continually exhort and push for stuff. Just be continuously, awesomely, quietly, right about stuff all the time without being in their face about it. If there was anything ever to be learned, it would be this: "Stop whacking the userbase every few months with hated changes." Killin' the forums ~ hey, theeeere's a way to make people delight in the platform! Eyah. Right. >_< _____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon! |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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06-03-2009 08:18
Oryx, of course you can cite anything I've said that you think might help... LL would have to have rocks in their heads to abandon this forum and all the information it contains. As a content creator and scripter, I frequently search this forum for answers to questions I know have been raised, and find them. I'd hate to have to start over again from page one. |
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Love Hastings
#66666
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,094
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06-03-2009 08:27
Oryx, please feel free to tell Blue that if they just upgrade these forums to the current version and institute a social subforum, instead of closing this place down and forcing us to use wikis, blogs, Q&A software etc, I would promise to behave myself in future. Pep (I can't think of a more persuasive argument. )I can. Promise to leave! _____________________
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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06-03-2009 08:30
Oryx, feel free to quote me if you can find anything useful..
we argued that the forums provide crucial support to LL's business objectives.. I look at the scripting forum and see all the help people get there. Litterally every day good stuff happens in that forum. I don't really follow the building/texturing forums as much but am sure they provide a similar level of help and/or bring a similar level of awareness of the topic to residents. I look at the new answers thingie in the blog and how my one try at it, a question that only LL can really answer, isn't getting answered by LL. Oh - it's really for residents helping residents. WTH? If I want to ask LL something serious and get ignored, I can do that just fine right here! Why do we need this new software that doesn't work?? /me thinks the root of the problem is that they actually do want to help but don't really know how. We outnumber Lindens by about a bazillion to one and every time they poke their heads out, they get mobbed from all sides. There was a suggestion, ages ago, about sortofa a forums resident triage area where only stuff we couldn't answer would get bumped to LL. I still think that's a good idea - if they really do want to help things, it would be a lot better than that damn blog software. /me digs up the old post about triage.. _____________________
Sick of sims locking up every time somebody TPs in? Vote for SVC-3895!!!
- Go here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 - If you see "if you were logged in.." on the left, click it and log in - Click the "Vote for it" link on the left |
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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06-03-2009 08:42
I can. Promise to leave! Love, you *really* don't get it do you?  Pep (You have to make your campaign promises credible.  )_____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Love Hastings
#66666
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,094
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06-03-2009 09:14
Love, you *really* don't get it do you? Pep (You have to make your campaign promises credible. )Nonsense! Whether you are lying or not, it's still a more persuasive offer. Much more. _____________________
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Pserendipity Daniels
Assume sarcasm as default
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8,839
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06-03-2009 09:42
Nonsense! Whether you are lying or not, it's still a more persuasive offer. Much more. You obviously don't know the meaning of the word credible. Pep (While you have the dictionary open, try looking up "gullable".) _____________________
Hypocrite lecteur, — mon semblable, — mon frère!
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Love Hastings
#66666
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,094
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06-03-2009 09:47
You obviously don't know the meaning of the word credible. Pep (While you have the dictionary open, try looking up "gullable".) Poor Pep! _____________________
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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06-03-2009 09:48
As crazy as it sounds, I honestly think that posting here will do more good. Decisionmaking people on staff scan these forums all the time, I am dead sure of it. sings ~ Come out come out wherever you are, Linden Lurkers! Of course there's probably a policy for them not to say too much, shy creatures that they are. I think it's Brenda, Oryx and Love.Trout use to be involved when he sent messages secretly hidden in his Trout Rating. Seriously, if we all must go away from RA, then we should come up with at least a couple of places for people to check out and post it for those in RA to see. This area will be gone so post it.....uh....hmmmmm.......somewhere. _____________________
My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Love Hastings
#66666
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,094
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06-03-2009 09:57
(While you have the dictionary open, try looking up "gullable".) Interestingly, askoxford.com wants nothing to do with that word. I had to "resort" to an American dictionary to find a quick reference to "gullible." Oh, and let me guess: you're going to claim you meant to misspell it...  _____________________
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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06-03-2009 10:00
Interestingly, . |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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06-03-2009 10:09
Pep (While you have the dictionary open, try looking up "gullable" [sic].) |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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06-03-2009 10:13
I think it's Brenda, Oryx and Love.Trout use to be involved when he sent messages secretly hidden in his Trout Rating. Someone's looking for a spanking I see....... _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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06-03-2009 10:14
... Pep, Love, can we take this dispute elsewhere? I'm deleting my little joke as well ... this actually is a thread that Blue will likely be looking at, since they didn't get many comments in the Blog thread about Answers. . Seconded. _____________________
Sick of sims locking up every time somebody TPs in? Vote for SVC-3895!!!
- Go here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895 - If you see "if you were logged in.." on the left, click it and log in - Click the "Vote for it" link on the left |
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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06-03-2009 10:19
Someone's looking for a spanking I see....... Always, Baby, always. _____________________
My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
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06-03-2009 10:20
Nika, should I cut and paste your earlier comments re: Forum Organization, back when you and Qie were parleying with Robin Linden into this Notecard? That's part of the "Future of the Forums..."
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Oryx Tempel
Registered User
Join date: 8 Nov 2006
Posts: 7,663
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06-03-2009 10:24
For anyone who's interested, here is a rundown of a restructuring effort that Isablan, Nika, and Qie (and many others!) developed early in 2008:
I think this version of Isablan's fabulous structure incorporates the recommended changes. However, I have some questions/observations at the bottom of this post. We NEED feedback on the questions, so please do read them and post. Thank much, this has been a great effort so far!! *Resident Support Forums* Resident Answers Troubleshooting Animation Tips Building Tips Businesses In-world Events Tips Movies & Machinima Scripting Library Scripting Tips Sculptie Tips SL Games Texturing Tips *Technical* Mac Discussion Linux Discussion First Look Viewer Feedback Beta Grid Feedback Current Version Feedback Feature Suggestions *Linden Website Links* Blog Discussion (linked to directly from Blog) Known Issues JIRA (links first to Wiki and then to JIRA) Support Information *Resident Information* Gallery Real Life Meet-ups & Events Resident Run Websites Resident Sites & Blogs SL Volunteers & Education Classifieds (as is) International Forums (as is) Archives (as is) Questions: 1. Did not add a Roleplay forum; didn't hear much support for it, and I think folks will tend to ask about it in Resident Answers anyway 2. Renamed "Technical Answers" to "Troubleshooting". Better or worse? 3. Restored "Tips" after all the content fora names. The participants in those forums need to be able to steer animation 'product wanteds' or product advertising to the corrent subforums. 4. Cristalle, I heard you about putting the content fora ahead of RA and Troubleshooting/Technical Answers, but I did not see broad support for that idea. Frankly, I also think this structure is more useful to newbies, though you are right, we will still be redirecting people. 5. Renamed the "Information Forum* section to "Linden Website Links* and moved it far down the list. Everything in this section links directly to other parts of the website. 6. In "Linden Website Links", what is in "Support Information"? If no one can answer this, I'll remove it. 7. Also, is the "Known Issues" section useful to people? 8. I didn't follow up on the suggestion about restoring the "Groups" section because I don't really know what they were, and how they would work. If folks could explain that, it would be a blessing. 9. I didn't follow up on my own idea for an "Open Source Developers" forum, because it appears that they don't feel the need for one. Also, be aware that Qie and I will not be recommending yet the return of a General Discussion forum. I could be wrong, but as I read Linden vibes, that would jeopardize the chances of getting anything else done. We'd like to get some moderators in place for when Aki leaves, some improvements to forum structure and policies, and a decent working relationship with LL. Then, once some trust is built, we can tackle harder issues. Some other general recommendations were made in this thread about forum improvements -- e.g. upgrading software, moderation policy, etc.. I've made note of these - most of them were in the initial proposal to LL -- but I suggest we confine discussion in this thread to the forum structure, so we can quickly wrap that up. Thanks much all! _____________________
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Love Hastings
#66666
Join date: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 4,094
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06-03-2009 10:51
... this actually is a thread that Blue will likely be looking at, since they didn't get many comments in the Blog thread about Answers. . Sorry - my bad. But in case Blue does show up: Blue! Please send me a bear! _____________________
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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06-03-2009 11:02
Nika, should I cut and paste your earlier comments re: Forum Organization, back when you and Qie were parleying with Robin Linden into this Notecard? That's part of the "Future of the Forums..." http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddhpv2fg_2f4cqj9g7&hl=en They appear to be so enamored of it that I'm afraid to raise a contrary view, lest they tune-out the comments altogether. clearspace to support threaded discussion more completely?" . |