Adult Content Blog Discussion

There is an updated blog post about Adult Content Changes:

https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2009/06/01/adult-content-changes-in-summary

But the blog format stinks, I can't find a way to view it in flat format in order of postings. So continue the discussion here if you desire

(oh, and they locked the official forum thread too)

Oh there is a way! The flat and threaded menu is on https://blogs.secondlife.com/user-preferences!input.jspa

Thank you, it was bloody un-obvious.

I can't find a way to link to specific comment threads yet, but if anyone knows more about the "Oatmeal incidents" digression please do share with the rest of the class.

If you look at Ursula on a slurl you can touch just south of it you can see more Ursula water sims numbered up in the 400s in the ocean that aren't showing in the map search yet.

I'm too lazy to analyze the new and old definitions in minute enough detail to tell the difference. Is there any?

Also, how do they compare to the original ones they "accidentally" unleashed at the start of this nonsense? My general feeling is they haven't changed a damn thing since then.

So when does Aristotle get fixed so it can come out of beta?

Currently it's possible for Australians to verify using random names, random drivers licence numbers and any address in the phone book and I suspect many other countries, making it useless, please find another verification provider or make it payment info only, otherwise it is just useless.

You are right, they are still as clear as mud. The blog update says the updated definitions are HERE

https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6010

They state that these is the 'Final' definitions, but if they hope that clarification has been achieved, then they have failed, miserably.

For example:

ADULT
"The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use."

Q. It is still not spelled out if this applies only to public areas within a sim, or to private areas too. Would a couple engaging in sexual explicit conduct using their poseballs, sex bed, whatever, in their own bedroom in their own home, be subject to this designation, or not? It is a simple question, and is simply not addressed.

Q. Photo-realistic nudity. Again, this is not well-defined. Does it relate to the use of images, in pictures on a wall, for example, or does it also encompass avatars, walking about nude, wearing a photo-realistic skin? What if they then change to a non-photorealistic skin?

"We may take into account whether apparent or reported adult content or conduct on a particular Region serves only an extremely limited or passive function"

Q. What the hell is passive adult conduct??

MATURE
"For instance, social and dance clubs (unless those clubs promote sexual conduct or use adult search tags), bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks (and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning) all support a Mature designation so long as they don't host publicly promoted adult activities or content."

Q. This seems to encompass all activity that is not Adult. If you own a sim that is a beach or park, and you use it for creating, or learning, you really have to designate it as Mature? Really?

PG
"A Region may be designated PG if it does not advertise or make available content or activity that's sexually explicit, violent or depicts nudity. Likewise, sexually-oriented objects such as "sex beds" or poseballs may not be located or sold in PG regions."

So all SL residential sims need to be rated Mature, if one of the homes on that sim has sex poseballs, or a sex bed in it? I wonder how many residential sims are 100% free of these poseballs?

Rock

I have some of that conversation on the SLapt.me wiki and am waiting on an email sometime today of the whole conversation and I will then post that there

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Comments_from_other_Linden_Staff#Comments_from_Oskar_Linden

also all the closed threads are now available in pdf format to download from this page

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Archived_SL_Forum_Threads

and the JIRA 2727 also here

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/JIRA_Issue_Discussion

Sorry to jump on you when you're only trying to help but I absolutely hate this attitude. The definitions are clear. Very clear. Anyone who can read English and draw some fairly simple assumptions should know what is now adult, mature or PG. My point was that the definitions don't appear to have /changed/ not that I don't understand them

This is simple if it looks photo-realistic and it's skins, posters, whatever and someone/anyone think it's porn, then it's adult content. Would be nice to see how they would define a photo-realistic Mickey Mouse skin though

Just to prove my point I went through and answered your fake questions. Of course I could be proved wrong or mistaken. This is my interpretation. But I'm confident any other normal, unbiased person would interpret the rules in the same way. Your problem is you WANT to be confused because you don't want to accept the change. I think the change is stupid and I'm 100% against it. But I don't go around pretending to be confused by it.

Elan, please, my questions are not 'fake'. I really am confused as hell about these definitions.

Nowhere in that updated definitions page does it say that private areas are exempt from Adult controls, that is your interpretation, but to me the stated designation is clear, "The Adult designation applies to Second Life® Regions that host conduct or display content that is sexually explicit or intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use."

My sim is currently rated 'Mature', and we DO host conduct that is sexually explicit (in private). The LL definition describes this is 'Adult'. I question whether they really mean that this statement applies to private areas or not, and you take the view, and it is only a view, as LL do not state it explicitly, that it does not. If LL had stated in that definition that it applied to public areas only, then it would have been explicit, and clear. The fact they did not still poses the question.

'Your' exemption for photo-realistic skins, on the basis that you believe no skins are 'photo-realistic', is again, your view. There are many skin makers who do believe their skins are photo-realistic, so this area also needs to be made explicit. There is absolutely no reason for leaving things unsaid, it only leads to ambiguity and confusion.

Your explanation for 'passive adult conduct' may fit the 'limited' adjective they used, but I fail to see how it fits the 'passive' adjective. Your view would seem to imply that landowners are not responsible for the behaviour of their tenants or visitors. That is an admirable view, but I doubt that LL share it.

The definition of 'Mature' says: "For instance, social and dance clubs (unless those clubs promote sexual conduct or use adult search tags), bars, stores and malls, galleries, music venues, beaches, parks (and other spaces for socializing, creating, and learning) all support a Mature designation so long as they don't host publicly promoted adult activities or content." That description is NOT used in the PG definition, but you apply it to either, why? On what basis? I took the view that the definitions under Adult applied to Adult areas, under Mature, to Mature areas, and under PG to PG areas. Your spreading of the definition from Mature to PG just leads to more confusion, in my honest opinion.

I think for the last point, on PG and the ban on sex poseballs and sex beds etc you are right, as that question was rhetorical (as that is exactly how I read it, without any interpretation). My real question here was: "I wonder how many residential sims are 100% free of these poseballs?" And it is this last point that may have slipped under the radar, as I believe (which you may disagree with) that it will be close to 0% of residential sims that have no sex poseballs in them in one home at least. This would compel almost every residential sim to change to the 'Mature' rating, with the restrictions that that entails (in search, etc). I do not recall any discussions on this in any of the QA posts.

Rock

It's not totally clear, Elanthius.

For instance, in a store that sells sex beds, it isn't uncommon for people to briefly try the animatons, fully clothed, before buying. The store (region) therefore hosts that activity and the activity of the animations is sexual. But while it is happening, nobody is being sexual - they are just having a quick look at the animations to see if they want them. It isn't clear whether or not it would be considered to be Adult.

Carrying it a bit further, it isn't clear whether or not my fully clothed demo models would be considered to be Adult. They are no different from other avatars (shoppers), and yet they are there only to briefly demo the animations for shoppers, without anything sexual being involved, other than the nature of the animations.

Imo, there is nothing "explicity sexual" about those things, because everyone is fully clothed, the testing is brief and not sexual (in the mind) for the participants, but it isn't clear if LL would agree.

OK, so I said "private" what I meant to say is that this is the key phrase: "advertises or publicly promotes". It's no good having a sex club but the sex happens in "private" that is not private, it's public. The key feature is what do you advertise or promote. If you are commercialising sex then you are adult. If you are "hosting" in the sense that a few friends come round and you screw in your sex dungeon then that is /not/adult.



The point is clearly "photo-realistic means that an image either is or cannot be distinguished from a photograph". I don't wish to insult aspiring skin makers but no skin when wrapped around an SL avatar looks like a photo.



I'm going to defer to common sense here as I'm sure LL will (or rather, they intend to use common sense, I believe the G team will quickly devolve into arbitrary bannings and witch hunts based on harassment from a few AR happy griefers)



I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of this whole section of text. I don't know how to break it down more clearly though. Try this. Is a bar, store, mall or gallery automatically adult? No. It can be mature as long as they don't host or promote blah blah."



This is certainly a concern of mine. As far as I'm aware it has never before been suggested that we cannot screw in our bedrooms on PG land. But the Ministry of Truth are changing history to make it so that this has always been the definition of PG. Also our chocolate rations are being increased.

Do you "advertises or publicly promote" sex beds? If your parcel's description says sex bed you are adult if it doesn't you are not. This incidental trying of poses would be passive adult activity. i.e. no-one is likely to be voicing and masturbating at the time. Well, I guess you never really know. No-one has ever suggested that your store would be adult in any way at all. It would /not/ be PG though.

I do include the word "sex" in the parcel's description, and in the names of some of the items, and I know that some of that will have to be changed.

It's the activities that sometimes occur in the store, and whether or not a Linden who answers an AR would decide that, say, the models are there to perfom "sexually explicit" activities. It's really not clear yet. It's unclear enough that I can foresee one Linden saying they are fine and another declaring them to be Adult. They'll certainly get ARed There will be a system of appeals, of course, but it would better if it were totally clear from the start. I've read the stuff, but I can't state definitively that the demo models are not Adult rated.

Incidentally, I'll fully clothe the demo models - they are scantily clad at the moment but not naked.

I think it is clear. But I certainly agree that there will be definition drift and random Lindens making up their own rules and improperly punishing people and ignoring appeals. That's a different issue in my mind.

Except that unless they changed something, the selling of those beds is not considered 'adult', if for no other reason than they can be used in private without being considered adult.

Somewhere selling them though would not be selling the service of using those beds. I can see there being an issue with people trying them.. personally I would not consider the use of the animations fully clothed to be 'adult', but the question is can any given Linden investigating be trusted to come to the same conclusion?

I am in favour of the plan conceptually, but they need to sort these things out before they should proceed.

Sure, selling sexbeds is not adult but "Regions, groups, and event or classified ad listings that employ search tags plainly suggestive of adult behavior or content will require the respective Adult designation". So you can't say "sex" in your parcel description. Regardless the real problem (and the real reason there's no confusion here) is the filter will hide your parcel from everyone unless it is tagged as adult because "sex" is a filtered word.


*Note: I've never actually used the RC viewer so I'm kinda guessing/assuming on the technical details.

You can see the effect of the filter by using the website search.

You're right.

The search filter sets the bar for adult far below the definitions. There are three levels of content (PG, Mature and Adult) but effectively only two levels for the search filter (PG and Adult). The function of the "Mature" checkbox appears to be to let you search Mature regions and parcels. The same words are filtered in PG and Mature searches.

But I was assuming that parcels that simply contained the word "sex" would be invisible to Mature searchers /regardless of what they searched on/. Since your parcel is still showing up I guess that's not the case.

Since it hardly affects me I haven't researched the details of how the search is going to change.

I misled you (unintentionally). I'd changed the word "sex" to "adult" in the parcel's description so that it would show in the filtered website search. Words in the object names and descriptions don't make any difference. It's only words that are in the parcel's name and description that matter for the filter.

*I* Am Passive Adult Content.


(hth )