The Right To "Bear Arms" vs. The Right To Self-Defense

I think since we have the right to buy and carry weapons in SL, we should have the right to defend ourselves too. Depending on the circumstances, of course...different strategies would be used, not just turning SL into a 24 hour war-zone. (That's what non-SL action games and SL Combat Zones are for)

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Of course a few things factor into this, like:

* Did you get a chance to take the "mini-screenshot" when you Reported the griefing incident?

* Did you have the ability to use Land Owners' Rights to ban and eject the griefer (is ejecting them "legal"?? I'm still a n00b here eh?)

* Is the griefer or group of griefers driving away your customers? (Even worse if they "live right next door" and do it repeatedly)
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There are a few loooooooooong-term griefers that I know of who get away with thier griefing almost all the time. One in particular even attacked land owned by (deeded to) my group, and got away with it, and I live 1 plot away from a Linden. The Linden wasn't specific as to HOW he got rid of him, but the griefer has plenty of L$, is a moderately well-known resident in the party circuit, and is a Premium account.

Luckily, one of the first things I learned as a n00b, is a make back-up copies of things you are building, just in case you get caged & orbited.

Unfortunately, some people like to /start/ wars, and if this was active, they would simply start shooting at people simply to provoke a response.

You do realise, of course, that the US constitution does not apply in SL?

Lewis

Good point Starla,...can't win for losin' eh?

Nerd... Who said anything about the U.S. Constitution? I can't even legally walk around in a mask in my city.

Chicago Mask Ban Ordinance

Oh, wait...let me re-phrase:

You do realise, of course, that I failed to mention the US Constitution? Heh!

I'm more concerned about the right to arm bears.
Please, those poor defenseless 3m tall grizzlies may look fierce, but that's cause they're scared. OTOH, give them an M-16 (or a minigun) and people will know not to @#$%! with Smokey. Only YOU can prevent a brutal bear mutilation!

I always thought that the Second Amendment was to allow people to wear short sleeved shirts.

Lewis

I think the right to bare arms is positively disgraceful. Nobody has a right to bare arms in polite company; they should be properly covered up. Possible exceptions may be made for when one is in bathroom or bedchamber, as long all windows are properly closed, but even then, really, a bathing suit or pyjamas should be worn.

edit: bah, my pun has been gazumped due to its verbosity

Rest assured Burke, in Jasper Fforde's alternative county of Berkshire, UK, they do indeed arm bears

Dawg if we didn't have that, my tattoo artist would commit suicide. RITUAL suicide even. With candles. But I digress



I saw a pic of one of those guys...big hairy bearded slob wearin nothin but a diaper holdin a rifle. Kinda scary yep

Anytime I see an armed intruder attempting to intemidate me or my guests on my land, whilst carrying some 20th century, badly textured machine gun, I'm at best amused. How do you get them to turn tail and run back, oft weeping, to the first person shooter gamer from whence they came?

Two words: Beehive Launcher.

(no bees or avatars harmed in the preceding demonstration)

HAHA, yeah, I have been thinking about something like that, just a swarm of drone-like things that keep people off your land while the swarm stays on your land, preventing any griefing on your part. Anyways, on a more serious note, NO RIGHT TO USE ARMS! If you search for military groups, you will find that there are HUNDREDS of these, and any one of them would LOVE to have this come into play. Even worse, there is a post in this forum that says Linden Labs is going to be rolling back what you can abuse report. Lindens need to hire more help, not allow the griefing military groups to run about and cause havoc and crazy lag.

Besides, they might have hairy arms, and nobody wants to see an army of hairy arms! Although, if they are furries, thats fine, its only natural.

LOL!!!!

*ahem*

But Amen to that, more Lindens are definitely needed. Just hit the "Search" button in-world and input "Police". I MIGHT trust one or 2 of these groups to protect an event based on the amount of members (low, and non-open membership), plus how mature the owner sounds; but if we are gonna have ACTING "Public Servants" of that type in-world, then they should be sanctioned so that they have a lot to lose if they don't follow the rules, just like 1st Life officers.

RP is kool (i.e. Superhero Teams), but it would be great to have a SecondLife Police Department, sanctioned and regulated (not gonna happen). Meanwhile, let's just keep fillin' out the reports correctly and completely for each incident. I have noticed that unless I fill the form out EXACTLY "to the letter" per the instructions, the probability of gettin help drops by about 75%, lol.

ARE YOUR PAPERS IN ORDER???

Pardon my ignorance but what can weapons in SL actually do to your AV? I have so far avoided combat sims (it's not my cup of tea) but understand that there is shooting in many places and I may come across it eventually. Am a bit confused (obviously)

In a world where weapons don't have to look like weapons and what looks like a weapon may only be decorative, I think it's silly to disallow "weapons". I have a detailed sidearm that says as much about my in-world personality as, say, my hair, even if I never take it out of the holster, and is completely harmless in its holster. Where scripting is disabled I can't even take it out of its holster. Yet, some people are wigged by it and some places don't allow it. In such places I can fuglify my shape, have a spinning plywood box with a smiley face over my head, wear nothing but a thong and have glowing neon green skin and an ad floating over my head, but I can't wear a sidearm. Pretty silly, if you ask me.

Sure, they Give you the right to Bear Arms, But bears don't have arms, they have Four Legs.

Angel.

*chuckles*

Now here a thought... I know Linden servers are US based and so under US law.

But in my country (The Netherlands) arms are not allowed. Something I agree with (no, I don't need/want a discusion about this, if this is right or wrong... seen to many of them and often end in bad arguments).

Anyway, should I support something I don't agree RL with? Don't think so. As far as of the rest of SL, I don't say anything... but for my little piece of land, I think I have the right to set what I believe in... in this matter: No weapons.

Morwen.

A good point Morwen!
Persuing that a little further, by displaying arms on residents computers in countries where arms are illegal, are LL and anyone using arms opening themselves to criminal prosecution?
Could LL appear in international courts as often as Microdo$h?

You don't have a right to bear arms on my land. Get over it.

Bearing arms? Everyone may carry accessories of all sorts on my land, be it dangerously spiked high heels, a sword or a pink father boa. I mean, someone who chooses to look like a Samurai will want to carry a weapon, otherwise he could be a simple paddy farmer just as well. But as soon as that samurai uses his feather boa to strangle unexpecting unarmed bears or activates a hidden caging device in his high heels, he will get banned instantly.

People who feel the need to shoot something in my sim can venture out to my spanish galleon and try to sink one of the nearby pelicans with a cannon. Yes, I have a rule against duck abuse, but I do allow pelican sinking... I know it's a twisted double standard.

As for arming bears: I'm glad that Bruno, the first wild bear in Germany since 1835 wasn't armed, otherwise he might have shot back at our heroic bavarian huntsmen (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5116316.stm). Had they not been allowed to carry firearms, Bruno would still be violating defenseless beehives and rabbit hutches. And we've all read what those beasts do to innocent girls in red hoods (actually, that was a wolf, but we killed all of those too).

Or vice-versa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Bonnie_Hood

Tell that to Yogi.

I love accessories, being furry attachments are what make up my furry form. I don't have any problems with people wanting to have a weapon on their avatar. I myself have a shnazzy sniper rifle, pair of handguns, and several swords I'll occasionally wear.

When I DO have a problem with such shooty and pointy things is when a resident comes into an area with guns blazing disrupting whatever is going on. There are combat simulators setup specifically for those with itching trigger fingers or those wanting to uphold their honor.

Having a weapon does not give ANY resident the right to open fire on or attack another resident without consent. Also the same goes for caging and orbiting devices.

Ejecting a resident from your land is perfectly legal in Second Life provided all other means of peaceful relations have failed. Often times its the greifer who wants a violent reaction against them just so they can pull a false abuse report out of their tush and give you a really bad day.

If one doesn't stop their actions report them. Quite simple and the most effective way of swatting flies.

Put me in the "I don't care what attachments you're wearing (as long as they aren't obscene)" camp. "Weapons" in SL don't have to look anything like a "weapon" in RL, so banning "gun" attachments is rather silly and pointless. That gun attachment may just be an empty shell, with the actual weapon(s) the AV had being kept in the above-mentioned samurai high-heels. Heck, I found a really nice pair of sunglasses in a freebie box that are actually a mini-gun. I may be wrong, but I think you can put all (or most) weapon code in a HUD attachment anyway, which no one would be able to see at all.

I can understand that LL does not want to be in the police business. There's no real reason they should be. It makes perfect sense to me that we, the residents of SL, should be the ones to make and enforce societal rules. The problem is, there really isn't any way to enforce the rules of society. Ban/eject only works for the land owner, ignore/mute only goes so far, locks and doors effectively don't work at all, . . . .

To effectively police ourselves, or at least protect our own AV, we do need some better tools. Baring LL provided and sanctioned ones, we're left with "just ignore it" or fighting fire with fire -- which at best puts us at risk of violating the ToS ourselves, and at worse makes us no better than the griefers we're trying to protect ourselves against.

-MM

Yep.




Yeah, I know a few peeps who wear like 5 non-workin prop guns in holsters to look like Mad Max or the lady from Resident Evil or whatever...I think they should be allowed to carry.

Also if they are in a sandbox making a SMG, they should be allowed to shoot a griefer in my "perfect world", but of course our Virtual World is no more perfect than 1st Life.

"The Matrix" anybody?



Hmm...Rockstar Games (publisher of the Grand Theft Auto series of games) software got banned from a few countries. Hopefully, that won't happen to LL's product too.



*sigh* U drive a hard bargain partner. *dusts off cowboy hat*

But nah in all seriousness, that's your land...nobody should be able to walk into your renter's (guessing you're a landlord due to your Title) homes and attack them without warning...especially with some of these new weapons that Collision Detectors can't even pinpoint. Nobody's (well not me at least) arguin against that.



LOL!!!!!! ...hoo boy... laughed so hard, tears came to my eyes.

{@ Millie Thomson}

*Xio begins with a "golf clap" and ends with a STANDING OVATION* Preach Sista!

yes you have the right to bear arms, just like i have the right to eject you from my land when you act like a fool.

i seriously think all these groups who use weapons as penis extendors seriously need to be disbanded for sheer annoyance and genaral stupidity.