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Police Blotter : Gender Made Public

Brenda Connolly
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07-18-2007 09:09
From: Nina Stepford
male avs are boring. i have 1 male alt and he's no fun to shop for.

/me is very afraid of meeeting Nina's male alt.
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Nina Stepford
was lied to by LL
Join date: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 3,373
07-18-2007 09:13
please tell me you did not accompany your brother on this search!
From: Jannae Karas
Although the search for the right male attachment took up a lot of my brother's time and energy. ;)


oh he is hideous. i will post a photo once inworld.
From: Brenda Connolly
/me is very afraid of meeeting Nina's male alt.
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
07-18-2007 09:34
From: Nina Stepford
please tell me you did not accompany your brother on this search!


no, but I did have a thread going for a while here asking for reccomendations for him. He was too shy to do it himself.

That got to be a very entertaining thread very quickly.
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Mickey James
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07-18-2007 09:39
From: Colette Meiji
but does it?

As you pointed out there will be some people who will have voices that it is hard to tell. Does that person who voices give permission to everyone who they voice chat with to speculate on whether their RL gender is the same as their AVs and spread the information around?


I took Pie's point to be about the tone of the first few responses to this thread, the implication that there was something hypocritical about LL taking action against someone for this while at the same time making available a tool that makes disguising gender harder.

Pie's point (as I read it) is that use of voice is voluntary, so there's no inconsistency. I think that's a good point.
Coyote Momiji
Pintsized Plutonium
Join date: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 715
07-18-2007 09:49
From: bilbo99 Emu
Cos they couldn't do it? ... <ducks the flaming>

;)


I was fooled (through no fault of hir own) for several months.
Brenda Connolly
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07-18-2007 09:50
From: Mickey James
I took Pie's point to be about the tone of the first few responses to this thread, the implication that there was something hypocritical about LL taking action against someone for this while at the same time making available a tool that makes disguising gender harder.

Pie's point (as I read it) is that use of voice is voluntary, so there's no inconsistency. I think that's a good point.

A little difference in that you use voice YOU are outing yourself in that case. That's different from John running around saying "Hey. Mary is really a guy".
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Caete Chevalier
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Join date: 8 Jan 2007
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07-18-2007 09:57
From: Colette Meiji
but does it?

As you pointed out there will be some people who will have voices that it is hard to tell. Does that person who voices give permission to everyone who they voice chat with to speculate on whether their RL gender is the same as their AVs and spread the information around?

Someone pointed out in other Online spaces where voice changers are common a lot of people try to "out" those using voice changers. And often times get it wrong.

Not everyones voice will fit into hollywood's definition of "He sounda like a man" or "She sounda like a woman"

I personally think this is another totally unenforcable thing - People have speculated about gender since SL started often using ridiculous reasoning. Such as the Classics -

"Any female Av that wears High heels all the time must be a man"

"Any female Av who has sex with another female Av must be a man"

"Any female who is an escort must be a man."

"Any female who dresses slutty must be a man"

"Any female Av who is a Subbie must be a man"

"Any female Av who is a Mistress must be a man"

Ohh and my favorite -

"Any female Av who wont web cam with strangers must be a man"


I think there are a lot of people paranoid about gender in Second Life - to the point they are guaranteed to scare away all those Avs who are the RL Gender they want away.

Men use this issue as an excuse to be prying and nasty to Women.

Women use this issue as an excuse to be bitchy about other Women. The old skewer the competition motif.


Left out my favourites

"You won't call me so you must be a man"

"You won't jump on a plane and come meet me someplace strange so you must be a man"

There's a reason I don't call people, nothing beats having to file police reports because a someone calls my # at all hours and then spreads it around as 'revenge' for me not wanting to date them.

That was 7 years ago. I take great pride in knowing all the info about me on the web that is findable is there because I placed it and control exactly what is seen.

I do find the "appearing to reveal" rather odd as a charge. But that's just another mystery of how Linden Labs appears to be working on alledgedly enhancing Second Life. ;)
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Brenda Connolly
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07-18-2007 10:09
From: Caete Chevalier
Left out my favourites

"You won't call me so you must be a man"

"You won't jump on a plane and come meet me someplace strange so you must be a man"

There's a reason I don't call people, nothing beats having to file police reports because a someone calls my # at all hours and then spreads it around as 'revenge' for me not wanting to date them.

That was 7 years ago. I take great pride in knowing all the info about me on the web that is findable is there because I placed it and control exactly what is seen.

I do find the "appearing to reveal" rather odd as a charge. But that's just another mystery of how Linden Labs appears to be working on alledgedly enhancing Second Life. ;)

Appearing to reveal = typical Linden speak. *see "Broadly Offensive* They won't take a two legged stance on ANYTHING it seems.

As far as the persistent lotharios go, sometimes you have to just sigh and say "Allright , Yes, I am a man. And a better one than you". No amount of convincing will accomplish the task.
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Wilhelm Neumann
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Join date: 20 Apr 2006
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07-18-2007 10:09
From: Colette Meiji
His stated reason is that its entirely un-enforcable.

He actually stated an interest in removing the Entire Community Standards save the Tolerance statement.

The Tolerance Statement he admits is also unenforcable but he said LL should set the tone with that.

(In some circles that would be called him talking of both sides of his mouth.)

This is in the same video where he highlights his plan to merge sections of the teen and adult grid.

I wonder how many parents are going to be cool with not only their kids being able to mingle with adults, but with those adults allowed to disclose the teens rl info if they learn it.




-------------------------------------

Lots of interesting stuff in here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2642394922604088000

Watch for yourself and form your own opinions since some LL aplogists accuse me of not understanding the video and putting words in Dan's mouth - even when I make EXACT quotes.


Honestly this guy scares me but then I like rules they make it clear to those who are low on the end of the scale of things like an inside barometer what they can and can't do. Its not enforcable becuse they need to hire the staff to enforce it. I remember a guy getting banned on a forum in WoW for revealing my age, gender on that forum. He was not given a slap on the wrist he was banned but not before the moderator asked him to remove the info and apologize for doing what he did. The guy's mouth got bigger and he didn't apologize and was permabanned. He was shocked too which was kinda funny. I didn't play wow for long because that kind of personality was rampant. If the largest computer MMORPG can enforce it Linden Labs can enforce it. the problem is this costs money :)

The guy was making fun of me because I like to play computer games and I am "older" apparently I had no life. Yet he was the one who was divorced and living in a one room apartment and bankrupt and I was the married one with kids and had actually made it to 40 without going bankrupt. People like this have no real way of knowing right from wrong and those are the ones you have to tell what is right and what is wrong because they lack the upbringing and logic to figure it out for themselves. So when people speak of removing rules it makes me nervous. I wonder if my days playing SL are numbered when I see this I trully do.
Pie Psaltery
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Join date: 13 Jan 2004
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07-18-2007 10:14
From: Caete Chevalier

I do find the "appearing to reveal" rather odd as a charge. But that's just another mystery of how Linden Labs appears to be working on alledgedly enhancing Second Life. ;)



Simple, "appearing to reveal" means they dont have to say if the residents RL gender was revealed or not.


From: Brenda Connolly
How come no one is paranoid of women playing men?


I am a woman frequently playing a male AV... he is dashingly handsome... be afraid ;)

From: Brenda Connolly
A little difference in that you use voice YOU are outing yourself in that case. That's different from John running around saying "Hey. Mary is really a guy".


Which is exactly why finding this incident on the police blotter shouldn't have raised any eyebrows at all
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Brenda Connolly
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07-18-2007 10:24
I'm not joking when I say the two most disturbing statements, this one and Braodly Offensive were made by this person. And I am not exaggerating by saying they disturb me. This mindset flies directly against what I think SL is about and it could definitely create an atmosphere that would make me leave.
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Brenda Connolly
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07-18-2007 10:27
From: Pie Psaltery




I am a woman frequently playing a male AV... he is dashingly handsome... be afraid ;)

Does he have money?
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Lindal Kidd
Dances With Noobs
Join date: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 8,371
07-18-2007 10:40
From: Brenda Connolly
Does he have money?



*I* have money. Tell me more about the "dashingly handsome" part! :D
Brenda Connolly
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07-18-2007 10:53
From: Lindal Kidd
*I* have money. Tell me more about the "dashingly handsome" part! :D



The last guy that was described to me as Dashing was just that. One look at him and I dashed away. At a rather rapid pace.
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Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
07-18-2007 11:10
From: Pie Psaltery
I am a woman frequently playing a male AV... he is dashingly handsome... be afraid ;)


LOL. I was just thinking to myself as I was reading this thread that one way to tell if a male avi is really a rl woman is if they are well proportioned, handsome and well dressed (especially look at the shoes).
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Teeny Leviathan
Never started World War 3
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07-18-2007 11:25
...Then again, you all could be overanalyzing the charge. Flashers tend to "make their gender public" all the time. :D
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Colette Meiji
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07-18-2007 11:30
From: Teeny Leviathan
...Then again, you all could be overanalyzing the charge. Flashers tend to "make their gender public" all the time. :D



LOL
Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
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07-19-2007 00:44
From: Brenda Connolly
How come no one is paranoid of women playing men?


Hmm because very few of them can pretend to know stuff about cars, hardware, football, and sleezy pron videos? And the ones that can are welcome anyways :)
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Morwen Bunin
Everybody needs a hero!
Join date: 8 Dec 2005
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07-19-2007 01:25
From: Tegg Bode
Hmm because very few of them can pretend to know stuff about cars, hardware, football, and sleezy pron videos? And the ones that can are welcome anyways :)


Oh.... but that is no golden rule :P.

I know a lady who rebuild old motors as a hobby. She works as seniour systemadministrator by a large Dutch company. Okay, on the sports part she fails... she loves tennis. The porn-part... I have to ask her. No idea there :P.

Morwen.
Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
07-19-2007 02:13
From: Tegg Bode
Hmm because very few of them can pretend to know stuff about cars, hardware, football, and sleezy pron videos? And the ones that can are welcome anyways :)


I am male (I guess... not 100% sure), and I know nothing about cars and very little about hardware. I have no interest in football or other sports; if the players were shooting or screwing each other on the lawn, or having a deep philosphical discussion about the meaning of life, then I'd be able to see the entertainment value of sports. But it's totally beyond me why people would want to watch other people chasing an air-filled leather ball. And porn videos... well, I've seen a lot of them, but I prefer erotic stories or roleplay (the interactive sort of erotic stories) :)
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Pie Psaltery
runs w/scissors
Join date: 13 Jan 2004
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07-19-2007 04:26
Amusingly (or perhaps it just amuses me, who's to say)... my female AV is a bit of a butch lesbian. She's the one that knows all about cars, hardware, football, and sleezy porn videos. She tends to run around in jeans and a t-shirt. My male Av is a bit of a twink who likes to garden, but he is a damn snappy dresser who won't share his shoe collection.
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Brenda Connolly
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07-19-2007 05:17
I love football (American Syle), know enough about cars to not get swindled by a mechanic, and can reasonably navigate through the hardware department. And my porn knowledge is better left for private discussion.
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Colette Meiji
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Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
07-19-2007 07:54
From: Brenda Connolly
How come no one is paranoid of women playing men?



This one is easy.

Theres a double standard. Stereotypical reaction is based on the Player Gender not the Av gender -

----------------------------------------------------------------
Basically the it works like this -

Female Av/Male Player cybors Female Av/Female player: thats ok since its "natural"
---people support men exploring their fantasy

Female Av/Male Player cybors Female AV/Male Player: "Ewwww thats gay"
---people overreact and stereotype all online bi femmes and lesbians as RL men.

Female Av/Male Players cybors Male AV/Male Player: "EWWWW THATS GAY!"
---Men get scared want things like gender verification and voice chat for protection
---Straight women instinctively see this as a way to thin the herd of competetion by accusing all Bi Female AVs of being Men in disguise.

---------

Male Av/Female Player cybors a Female Av/Male Player: thats ok since its "natural"

Male Av/Female Player cybors a Male Av/Male Player: thats ok since its "natural"

Male Av/Female Player cybors a Male or Female AV/Female Player: "Lesbians R HAwt!!"

-----------------------

It helps to remember people form their basic reactions towards homosexuals (men and women) during high school.











----------------------------
And somehow I managed to get my Derailed post referencing the original post again. Crazy.
bilbo99 Emu
Garrett's No.1 fan
Join date: 27 Oct 2006
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07-19-2007 08:18
From: Tegg Bode
Hmm because very few of them can pretend to know stuff about cars, hardware, football, and sleezy pron videos? And the ones that can are welcome anyways :)


My only knowledge of football is knowing a route from Wiltshire through London to Emirates Stadium.

I've been trying to forget it ever since I drove it.
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Raudf Fox
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07-19-2007 08:21
From: Brenda Connolly
I love football (American Syle), know enough about cars to not get swindled by a mechanic, and can reasonably navigate through the hardware department. And my porn knowledge is better left for private discussion.


With the exception of football, I'm pretty much the same way. I do most of the handyman work that doesn't require brute strength and my husband does the cooking. While I do the other 'housewifely' chores and am the stay at home, he prefers to do the laundry too.

*mutters* It really shouldn't amaze guys that I know what a carburetor is, does and that many cars don't have one.. or that points were replaced by spark plugs...
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