Attention Lindens:

Livejournal: "Well, we really screwed this one up."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/01/livejournal_sorry_censor/

I am pointing this out because your latest blog entry seems to have been related to what Livejournal did and it apparently backfired for them.

I respectfully ask you to reconsider the policy stated in your latest blog entry. Nobody approves of pedophilia, but to lump it in with fantasy rape, bdsm and similar role playing seems bound to provoke a similar backlash that livejournal is experiencing.

Kind regards,


Ari Acropolis

I find nothing wrong with the policy. If someone passes me RL paedophile or rape pictures I will not hesitate to AR them.

Where LL went wrong was highlighting an issue that is common sense and on the back of the Livejournal fiasco (I have a Livejournal) it just seems to be encouraging the "Warriors of Innocence" to play their hand here.

I think where LL went wrong was in wording the blog so that it appears that "broadly offensive" is banned thoughout the grid rather than only banned in public PG areas (as per their stated Community Standards).

Despite the major outrage on the forums, LL has chosen to blog about fluffy clouds rather than attempt to clarify the mess they've made!

Ciaran: Nobody likes pedophilia and everywhere I have been in SL has signs or notifications forbidding ageplay.

What disturbs me is that they are lumping in BDSM and other activities between freely consenting adults in with pedophiles, and that is totally wrong on many, many, many levels, and yes, Matthew is quite right, their latest blog entry is vague and could include just about anything remotely sexual as grounds for banishment, confiscation, etc.

In other words, Lindens are overreacting in the same way Livejournal did.

Ageplay is a form of BDSM, I have no issue with ageplay between adults and adult avatars. I do have a problem when child avatars are used.

To me, a woman dressing up in a schoolgirl or cheerleader outfit is sexual ageplay, I see nothing wrong with that when both persons and avatars are adult.

I also have no problem with ageplay when an adult is playing a child as part of a family with nothing sexual to it, again that's ageplay.

what the "Moral Majority" seem to be not paying attention to is the difference between Age play and pedophilia.
i too am disgusted by it, but i will not lump anyone into the same catagory because i do like how short thier ava is(they are a mini so they must be into child porn ).not every person in minature is a child ava. nor are they portraying a "highly sexually formed child". not everyone who joins the rank of resident is here for sex.it seems that way because the press, and some so called journalist(sensationalists is a better word) focus on that aspect of this buggy frustrating but wonderful world.

finding something offensive is a matter of taste and opinion. i may not like some of the things residents do, but its hardly a reason to ban them because a "vast majority" don't get it. if you are offended by the content of this platform. leave. or "turn it off". i for one am sick of so called "dogooders" defining what is moral and right for me. i like to think i have enough common sense to avoid those areas that may or may not have offensive or content i dont agree with. its a choice, i wish the right to do it, without some "vast majority" telling i have to.
"broadly offensive" as was stated here, and in the blog post regarding safty, is too blanket a statement, and will cause LL to lose thier paying customers. yes i mean the ones shelling out thousands a month for the private islands, and will turn SL into a vast advertisment wasteland.

before we become the New Gestapo of the Virtual World, many need to take thier collective high horses, and well you know what to do.

Friday afternoon...

On Resident Answers...

I'd put the odds of LL seeing this thread close to 0%.

I agree that the blog post was unfortunate, clearly rushed, contradictory, and certainly raises more questions than it answers... probably the results of some new behind-the-scenes squabble. Undoubtedly some company is haggling over the price of several sims and brought up the lawless and lewd reputation SL has as concern, so LL scampered to take a more favorable posture.

Who knows. I doubt it'll change anything ultimately.

Exactly, if I don't like something, I'll turn away. The same as when I'm watching television. There are issues that deserve reporting but we know this already and we can apply common sense. There's a storm brewing here and it's going to be a messy one.

Yay! Another ageplay arguement!!

But seriously, folks, I think what LL was trying to say by "Broadly Offensive" is things that are generally accepted as universally offensive...such as Nazis, KKK...things on that order.

The problem is we all have to form an opinion on what they mean rather than having no question because of their clarity. They weren't clear and they need to realize a lot of people in SL (ESPECIALLY many on the forums and Blog comments) tend to be very literal and exploitive with every detail...sometimes out of being very concrete and literal people that don't understand subtlety and sometimes out of being jerks.

Either way, I think they're just trying to tell the kids they can't leave the yard without having to commit to building a fence. They have to stop trying to be our buddies and start hurting some feelings with sharp and precise wording of their rules.

Where do you draw the line though? Other people have said that as offensive as the KKK are, they have a right to their opinion.

That's my point. They need to be clearer about what will not be tolerated and not try to have a Utopian illusion where everyone can think for themselves.

There would be no leaders if there weren't so many followers!!

Umm, you need to seriously get your facts straight. Ageplay and BDSM have nothing to do with each other. Seriously...

Sexual ageplay very much has something to do with BDSM. It's a control issue. Get your facts right.

I'd have to disagree if you're talking about the ageplay where an obvious adult (or adult av) dresses up like a school girl or cheerleader. It always seemed to me to be a sort of reminiscing of your teenage years when you first became sexually aware and curious. Everything was new and great. Now it's great but we're used to it. That's how I always saw it, anyway.

That isn't control IMO.

Sexual ageplay can involve people playing the role of a bratty child who needs punishing and they encoruage it. That is associated with BDSM.

Not all sexual ageplay is BDSM.

Not all ageplay is sexual.

I think that's what you were just arguing AGAINST a couple posts ago.

Don't think so, my point is that ageplay is a wide ranging subject but to say there's no BDSM side to ageplay is incorrect. To say that ageplay is only about BDSM is also incorrect.

Actually, this is what you were saying before.



Sounded pretty straight forward to me!

Either way, that's not the point. I really don't think LL is so Old School that they would ban all forms of sexual play and/or ban child avs in SL. Having met a few Lindens IRL I refuse to believe they will take this approach.

They just need to be clear so no one can keep up with this "am I going to be led to a gas chamber because I like being tied up?" BS people keep coming up with.

Ah but I talk rubbish at times BDSM doesn't have to be sexual either but heck it's 1am and my thoughts are scattered....that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it There is however a link between ageplay and BDSM, I'm sticking by that. The schoolgirl/Cheerleader thing doesn't have to be BDSM related ...damn why did I get into this!

The Lindens have never indicated that child avatars will be banned, I didn't mean to imply that they will be banned.

I know. I wasn't trying to infer that you were but a lot of people arguing similar points DO act like all child avs will be banned.

I guess the sky will always be falling for someone in SL!

no Ciaran, not all ageplay is about BDSM. i think You may be referring to the brat aspect of it, where the submissive acts in a childish or bratty fashion. this does not mean that you are totally wrong. Ageplay is a form some use in thier BDSM activities, but one does not need to be a child ava to do it. but is not exclusivly a BDSM activity. and for the record i wear school girl outfits as well, yet i am not looking for sex. i wear them because i can and my ava has great legs. i also wear high heels , does that mean i have a foot fetish?

this is why i say educating ones self in the different modes of Fetish Play can clear a vast majority of this up. and yes one persons yuck is another yippee, however to lump them all into a single catagory is wrong.

Well Sexual Ageplay has just as much in common with BDSM as old people and normal sex too then.

I would find it incredibly offensive if I accidentally stumpled upon real life or virtual lynching of dark skin avatars by people in white hoods that were pour hot tar and burning the avatar or rl persons skin off. Same way I personally find it offensive if I stumbled upon a neo- nazi group re-enacting the torture, violence upon the jews, including baking them in ovens as way of saying how this is joke and never happen.
Who wouldn't find that offensive? Is that just opinion they are sharing that its amusing to burn off flesh or bake people in ovens?
At same time I don't want people to assume things about because I have a tiny avatar or dressed as baby in SL. I don't have sex in SL. Yet if someone was trying to tell me pedophilla was okay thing to do I would be bothered by it.
If you really want to do something offensive I bet if you paid enough and was on private island and only invited those you trusted LL wouldn't do a thing to you.

I don't do bdsm online but it doesn't mean I haven't ever done it in my real life. Including ageplay.
BDSM and ageplay at least for me and some people has nothing to do sex any more then playing dungeons and dragons or getting has massage has anything to do with sex.

i agree totally with you on the first part of your post. it is offensive. yet i am hearing fewer and fewer reports in reagrd to this, due to the part that i personally do not participate and or hang around those who do participate in that particular bit of "play". yet sad as it is i knwo they are out there. like i said its a choice. many here do things that they would never do in rl. i am in no way condoning it. just saying you cant have your cake and eat it to. You cant have one aspect w/o an opposite, usually an extreme one, on the internet.

keep in mind those that do such things are doin it for the shock value, and to get a reaction. once they dont get the one they expected, they move on.

whats really at stake here is not the right to do as one wishes, but the choice to do so. all it will take is for one to see something they thmeselves find offensive, and the witch hunt begins. right now its the hunt for avas shorter that 5'8, next it will be the furries. whats that poem? that ends with: then they came for me and no one was there to defend me.