Second Life Forums Archive - Acceptance In SL

Maggie McArdle

FIOS hates puppies

Join date: 8 May 2006

Posts: 2,855

02-08-2007 13:16

From: Auryn Sapeur

I've read through several of these posts and found some of them to be insightful and others to be quite ironic.

The first point I'd make is that there is no such thing as Utopia. There will never be a place where everyone likes, accepts or finds everyone appealing. The sooner each person comes to accept that the happier they will be in RL or SL. The fat people don't like the skinny people the barbies don't like the furries and all other kinds of generalizations which the idealists who claim to hate stereotypes and generalizations often stereotype and generalize about. This dislike ranges from silent whispers shared with friends of the same like mind to out right bigotry and it will always exist. It reminds me of free speech advocates who rant and rave and have their sit ins and protests about free speech until the local White Supremecist (sp?) group shows up and then it's all about suppressing something that isn't viewed as "acceptable" in their eyes. An extreme example, yes, but where do you draw that line?

Why are most avatars "attractive" and thin... my supposition is one of RL biology. Society finds these people attractive be cause the qualities people look for in a mate are qualities of health. Being thin, strong and young with reletively equal porportions on both left and right sides of the body demonstrate health. That is what we look for in mates (yes, that nasty animal part of us that has evolved with us since we crawled out of the primordial goo). If one presents a less healthy appearance they are less likely to attract a mate so each one of us strives for beauty. This is why most people make their avatars physically presentable as /they/ would see fit. (Hey, I dont' like crawling out of bed and getting made up in RL... hell why don't we all walk around in our bathrobes with curlers in our hair then and proclaim, "hey... this is me, deal w/it"?) Does this mean we are slaves to our biology... no, but when you meet someone for the first time you have absolutely no way of understanding who that person is except by the way they look. Example: If someone walks around with an axe sticking from their forehead and blood spurting and I've never met them before, no, I'm not going to want to walk up and strike up a conversation with them because it's not my thing, yes, they could be a great person and playing a prank or just being funny or doing some "in" kind of thing that I don't understand, but I don't know that... so we evaluate by first impressions.

Why aren't there disfigured people in SL? I don't know about anyone else but I've never met a disfigured person that /wanted/ to be disfigured or a person in a wheel chair if given a choice would choose not to walk. So why is it so surprising that there are no disfigured handicapped people in SL? Just a guess but I'd say because no one wants to be disfigured or handicapped.

Live and let live people...
I get a little tired of people who claim to be accepting of all viewpoints and ideologies and then sit proudly on their high horse until someone comes along and disagrees with their perfect world view and/or ideology. My personal point of view is just accept people's avs for what they are because that is what they want to be at that particular time. Who givea a rat's @ss if they are fat, pretty, male or female behind that av. That is what Second Life is about... having a second life that is maybe just a little bit better than their first.

My av has been goth white, green, blue and now standard caucasian. I've always had a "good" body and IMO attractive because that is what /I/ want for /my/ second life. Because that is what /I/ want does not make me a bigot and it does not mean I discriminate wholesale of any other body type or skin color or species or robot (and so on and so on), it is just what /I/ want. So lets not try to devalue anyone's choices because they aren't "real" in their second life (and no my figure in RL is not the same as it is in SL I made it what I would ideally like it to be) and they don't subscribe to any one individual's "world view", ideal (or less than ideal) body type. Bottom line, everyone is different. People will gather with those of a like mind and world view (birds of a feather anyone) and they will criticize others to some degree (small or large) for not being like them. It doesnt matter if they are in the majority or the minority it will always occur.

Oh... and I've been to many of the most sought out skin makers (I make them myself) and a vast majority have a full range of skin tones from "begging for sunburn white" to "charcoal black", not to mention a rainbow of other non-human colors.

Acceptance of others means exactly that, even those you don't particularly like or agree with.

/end rant

bravo Auryn, bravo ....(umm wheres that skin place please?) oh and if You liek the suggestion about the robe and hairculers there is a designer who has that ver ava(?) she also comes with a beer can a cigarette danglin from her mouth. now if i can remember who she is......
but yes its YOUR SecondLIFE,Jinny, do what YOU want and find like minded people. there will always as Auryb stated in her post, people who will find somethign to not like about you because its easier to do so. hang in there jinny.

_____________________

There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.

Solanghe Sarlo

Gypsy Free Thinker

Join date: 19 Jul 2006

Posts: 644

My 2 cents

02-08-2007 13:31

What an interesting thread....

I read something awhile back, I think it was in one of the fashion blogs, where a resident decided to do a little social experiment and wear a very dark skinned Avi. I think it was initially meant to show off her friends work as a skin designer, but this person discovered that many people, even some of her friends (!) reacted negatively to that skin and would ask her, "when are u going to be yourself again". She even got called some really nasty names in one place.

I personally know of at least 2 residents who wear skins that are dramatically different from who they are in RL, in order to avoid this kind of stuff.

Can you believe that? I can because just as I am basically myself in SL, so is everyone else. It's just easier to hide it. Or is it?

Well in my case, my main avi is a clear extension of me in these ways:

She wears glasses most of the time.
Average Height, Weight, Proportion.
Sporty-girl type, but likes cute clothing; nice jeans & cute sweater tops. (worn with tennies). She doesn't own anything that might even remotely be called 'hoochie wear'.
Short Haired most of the time.
Prefers quiet pursuits like art galleries, taking classes, and exploring beautiful builds.
She goes to places like 'The Elbow Room' and little out of the way pubs to dance and socialize, not the big shiny clubs.

OK, she is NOT like me in these ways:

GREAT boobs! Not gianormous, just really nice.

(Great butt too).
Pretty, Pretty. I am told I am attractive in RL, but my Avi is pretty in a way I would like to be.
Fledgling Model.
Business Owner.
Wealthy - lives on a gorgeous lake, surrounded by forest.
Huge Wardrobe.

Need i go on? (laugh) For me, SL is a very satisfying venue in which to live out some of my basic fantasies (like living on a lake). I am still me underneath that virtual skin though, even when wearing a fairy or drow or tiny kat (all of which I wear when the mood strikes).

_____________________

The key to a contented life: Figure out who you are, what you are, fix what you can and make peace with the rest.

Jesseaitui Petion

king of polynesia :P

Join date: 2 Jan 2006

Posts: 2,175

02-08-2007 13:37

From: Winter Ventura

When I started out in SL.. I spent a great many hours trying to replicate my body in RL, into SL.. I spent many hours of effort trying to get the face right... and in the end.. while it wasn't perfect, it was close.

Oh wow, i did this too. I also wanted to be 'myself' in second life. I like the fact that others (Like the OA) do too.

I think second life is just that- second life, and the OA mentions not seeing anyone look anything other than a hollywood model or a hunk- yep, it makes me wonder if these people are real unhappy about themselves in RL and have to look like that in SL...or if its just second life and they look like that because they CAN. afterall second life is a game played with avatars, so you have that ability to be good looking.

Personally, i was not interested in looking like anything other than myself. I view second life as an amazing extension of the RL me- i can be places and meet with people more intimately than a yahoo chat. It`s great.

Anyway, IF they turned you away truthfully cos you are an easier targett- thats understandable. Its like that in first life too. If its for other reasons well, that`s sad, and also goes on in first life. I`ll talk to anyone in any look shape or form, here or in SL, unless i suspect theyre a griefer just around to cause trouble. and unfortunately sometimes when an avatar is anything other than a good looking human, furry, neko, w/e- people immidiately assume theyre up to no good.

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

02-08-2007 13:52

(this sort of thread is why they shouldnt have gotten rid of the "real forums"

It should be entirely up to the player what body type and look they want to have in Second Life.

Its completely wrong to discriminate against someone for having a full figured avatar.

My guess is people who do would also discriminate against overwieght people IRL, and thus are small minded.

Its also wrong to tell someone they have to look like they do IRL - (im a size 20 irl , definitely not in SL but thats my choice)

it actually takes a lot of effort to make a natural looking heavy shape in SL - the fact that you put the time in becuase thats how you want to be portrayed in virtual space should be appreciated.

I used to have a good freind who had the same issues as the ladies who commented on the lack of female skins w/o make up. She ended up making her own but my efforts to get her to put it on sale didnt work.

There are a couple skins out there very lightly made up - but they are on the higher end of the market - Chip Midnight , Second Skin labs and Naughty designs come to mind.

I personally think women of all shapes and sizes are sexy =)

And I also like punky butch women - but maybe thats not relevant to the discusion

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

02-08-2007 14:10

From: Aminom Marvin

Types of "regular" users in SL:

-Those who treat the game like The Sims MMORPG. Tend to be really boring types.
-People who are into pixel porn. Now, I have nothing against sex, but I don't see how two avatars having sex is at all erotic. It is just silly.
-People who use it as a pretty chat interface and haven't wandered far from a WA.

The above people are the ones who tend to have undifferentiated, barbie doll-like avatars. They account for most of the people in the game. Then there are people who actually want to do something with the game

Create truly unique avatars, creative builds, play with scripting, etc. For a very damatic example of the difference between "regular" users and people who use it creatively, first teleport to a random location on the southern continent. It is filled with bad builds, stock houses and shadowy commercial ventures with nothing really unique to offer. Now, teleport to the new sim Saphira, which I recently discovered. Already the group has made it quite a cool place to explore, and I am sure it will only get better.

So, "acceptance" in SL depends on what you are trying to do with it. If you make an unusual avatar, "regular" users may ignore it, while the creative will appreciate it.

Interesting - however in your comments on acceptance your tone comes accross as NOT accepting quite a few people in SL. In fact you both stereotype them and insult them for what they find errotic.

You also assume anyone creative isnt into *playing house* or *SL style cyber sex * which comes off condescending.

Also a lot of people who make bad builds might be tommorrows serious builders - you have to learn to build - Im certainly far better at working with things in SL than i was 2 years ago.

I think the point of your post was to agree we should be accepting, you should have left it at that instead of hammering on the types you find annoying.

As an aside - its a fairly major social concern that since childhood women are subjected to the barbie/model/actress/hollywood body image. Im sure weve all seen news stories and read articles on this situation.

The fact that in a world where you can look however you want you end up with women's avatars that are cartoon versions of that very body image - should not surprize us

Agian ill salute the Original poster for wishing to look as she does IRL and also support those ladies who admit they prefer a more androgynous look.

Ill also agree with Auryn that people should be allowed to look as they prefer.

But people shouldnt want acceptance while at the same time not accept others.

Thea Woodget

Registered User

Join date: 6 Feb 2007

Posts: 12

02-08-2007 14:21

I'm new to SL and enjoying discovering the world.

My avatar looks as much like me as I could make her... I like to be able to walk around and have people get to know something close to the real me. In real life I'm a semi fitness guru so I'm healthily slim although not stick thin. I'm seriously short at only five foot zero and made my avatar quite short too and have been surprised no one seemed to notice. I do go for the sexy-Ren-fair-wench look a bit but that's who I am in real life too pretty much. I would have a dark avatar but my avatar is extremely pale like me.

I'm just glad that in SL unlike The Sims Online (which I beta tested)... you *can* make a avatar that's rounder or fat. In TSO they're all pretty much size one. You also can't take off any of the make up in TSO and I was glad to make my SL avatar very fresh faced and as non made up as possible. I've been surprised how many people have complimented me on the eyes and asked me how I did them. Basically I just tried to play with the sliders enough to get dark green eyes without make up on.

In TSO I had 3 sims, one that was just like me, another that was sort of like me in a Glinda the Good Witch costume and yet another that looked nothing at all like me and was patterned on Samantha from Bewitched.

I'm accepting of all avatars, short or fat, goodlooking and plain... of whatever interests as long as they're tolerant to other avatars of various persuations too. I've been surprised so far at how I've had some be a bit snarky althoug not truly griefing when seeing I belong to a Buddhist group. You'd think it would be the pagan or polyamory groups I'm with that would put them off, but nope, seems like it was that I'm a Buddhist that offended this person somehow.

I was told there should be no religion in SL, which I felt was beside the point in a way because Buddhism isn't truly a religion so much as a spiritual path. Still I was gracious and thought "what would Buddha do?" and in the end it was no real issue. It did make me brace myself a bit for more of that sort or problem to come up again in SL.

Hopefully I can still be spiritual in my own way and be accepted in SL at least by those who are like minded. I guess just like the real world, you're always going to run into some intolerant folks who just don't get you.

Thea

Raindrop Drinkwater

Globally Creative

Join date: 28 Jun 2006

Posts: 240

02-08-2007 15:22

I have a few avatars, one of which is a black woman (for which I've recently found the RIGHT hair! Yeahhhh!). Everybody has been nice to her. Well, most people I meet ARE nice. I guess I'm just lucky!

_____________________

A2NZ : When creativity goes global. Latex, Casual, Club gear.
blog.a2nz.org || Main store in Ufeus

Ace Albion

Registered User

Join date: 21 Oct 2005

Posts: 866

02-09-2007 07:43

Be how you want, and be nice to people who are how they want. Unless how they want is being mean to you or others.

Something like that.

I've talked with intelligent and creative people who, by turns, have been - blue skinned with no prims, cubes, giant twisted spirals of metal fencing, big boobed barbies, shaven headed gangstas, and little cartoon hedgegogs.

Sometimes all those could be the same person

_____________________

Ace's Spaces! at Deco (147, 148, 24)
ace.5pointstudio.com

bilbo99 Emu

Garrett's No.1 fan

Join date: 27 Oct 2006

Posts: 3,468

02-09-2007 08:09

From: Aminom Marvin

Types of "regular" users in SL:

-Those who treat the game like The Sims MMORPG. Tend to be really boring types.
-People who are into pixel porn. Now, I have nothing against sex, but I don't see how two avatars having sex is at all erotic. It is just silly.
-People who use it as a pretty chat interface and haven't wandered far from a WA.

Mebbe you ain't doing it right Aminom?

Your attempt at categorising users is the very essence of what discrimination is all about .. very dangerous.

There are winged fairy creatures who like Star Trek. There are large felines who are mid-west construction workers. There are probably topless bar go-go dancers who are grandmothers. When I meet a guy/girl/furry I can make no assumptions whatsoever. Gender, build, race, sexual persuasion, fashion sense ... what does it matter to me? The person can be a nice person .. that's all that matters.

You imply the newer builds are the most inventive and exciting? Have you looked at some of the older ones? Svarga? Apollo? Clementine? Why judge? don't we get enough of that IRL?

Mandy Carbenell

Acceptance In SL
Maggie McArdle FIOS hates puppies Join date: 8 May 2006 Posts: 2,855	02-08-2007 13:16 From: Auryn Sapeur I've read through several of these posts and found some of them to be insightful and others to be quite ironic. The first point I'd make is that there is no such thing as Utopia. There will never be a place where everyone likes, accepts or finds everyone appealing. The sooner each person comes to accept that the happier they will be in RL or SL. The fat people don't like the skinny people the barbies don't like the furries and all other kinds of generalizations which the idealists who claim to hate stereotypes and generalizations often stereotype and generalize about. This dislike ranges from silent whispers shared with friends of the same like mind to out right bigotry and it will always exist. It reminds me of free speech advocates who rant and rave and have their sit ins and protests about free speech until the local White Supremecist (sp?) group shows up and then it's all about suppressing something that isn't viewed as "acceptable" in their eyes. An extreme example, yes, but where do you draw that line? Why are most avatars "attractive" and thin... my supposition is one of RL biology. Society finds these people attractive be cause the qualities people look for in a mate are qualities of health. Being thin, strong and young with reletively equal porportions on both left and right sides of the body demonstrate health. That is what we look for in mates (yes, that nasty animal part of us that has evolved with us since we crawled out of the primordial goo). If one presents a less healthy appearance they are less likely to attract a mate so each one of us strives for beauty. This is why most people make their avatars physically presentable as /they/ would see fit. (Hey, I dont' like crawling out of bed and getting made up in RL... hell why don't we all walk around in our bathrobes with curlers in our hair then and proclaim, "hey... this is me, deal w/it"?) Does this mean we are slaves to our biology... no, but when you meet someone for the first time you have absolutely no way of understanding who that person is except by the way they look. Example: If someone walks around with an axe sticking from their forehead and blood spurting and I've never met them before, no, I'm not going to want to walk up and strike up a conversation with them because it's not my thing, yes, they could be a great person and playing a prank or just being funny or doing some "in" kind of thing that I don't understand, but I don't know that... so we evaluate by first impressions. Why aren't there disfigured people in SL? I don't know about anyone else but I've never met a disfigured person that /wanted/ to be disfigured or a person in a wheel chair if given a choice would choose not to walk. So why is it so surprising that there are no disfigured handicapped people in SL? Just a guess but I'd say because no one wants to be disfigured or handicapped. Live and let live people... I get a little tired of people who claim to be accepting of all viewpoints and ideologies and then sit proudly on their high horse until someone comes along and disagrees with their perfect world view and/or ideology. My personal point of view is just accept people's avs for what they are because that is what they want to be at that particular time. Who givea a rat's @ss if they are fat, pretty, male or female behind that av. That is what Second Life is about... having a second life that is maybe just a little bit better than their first. My av has been goth white, green, blue and now standard caucasian. I've always had a "good" body and IMO attractive because that is what /I/ want for /my/ second life. Because that is what /I/ want does not make me a bigot and it does not mean I discriminate wholesale of any other body type or skin color or species or robot (and so on and so on), it is just what /I/ want. So lets not try to devalue anyone's choices because they aren't "real" in their second life (and no my figure in RL is not the same as it is in SL I made it what I would ideally like it to be) and they don't subscribe to any one individual's "world view", ideal (or less than ideal) body type. Bottom line, everyone is different. People will gather with those of a like mind and world view (birds of a feather anyone) and they will criticize others to some degree (small or large) for not being like them. It doesnt matter if they are in the majority or the minority it will always occur. Oh... and I've been to many of the most sought out skin makers (I make them myself) and a vast majority have a full range of skin tones from "begging for sunburn white" to "charcoal black", not to mention a rainbow of other non-human colors. Acceptance of others means exactly that, even those you don't particularly like or agree with. /end rant bravo Auryn, bravo ....(umm wheres that skin place please?) oh and if You liek the suggestion about the robe and hairculers there is a designer who has that ver ava(?) she also comes with a beer can a cigarette danglin from her mouth. now if i can remember who she is...... but yes its YOUR SecondLIFE,Jinny, do what YOU want and find like minded people. there will always as Auryb stated in her post, people who will find somethign to not like about you because its easier to do so. hang in there jinny. _____________________ There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
Solanghe Sarlo Gypsy Free Thinker Join date: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 644	My 2 cents 02-08-2007 13:31 What an interesting thread.... I read something awhile back, I think it was in one of the fashion blogs, where a resident decided to do a little social experiment and wear a very dark skinned Avi. I think it was initially meant to show off her friends work as a skin designer, but this person discovered that many people, even some of her friends (!) reacted negatively to that skin and would ask her, "when are u going to be yourself again". She even got called some really nasty names in one place. I personally know of at least 2 residents who wear skins that are dramatically different from who they are in RL, in order to avoid this kind of stuff. Can you believe that? I can because just as I am basically myself in SL, so is everyone else. It's just easier to hide it. Or is it? Well in my case, my main avi is a clear extension of me in these ways: She wears glasses most of the time. Average Height, Weight, Proportion. Sporty-girl type, but likes cute clothing; nice jeans & cute sweater tops. (worn with tennies). She doesn't own anything that might even remotely be called 'hoochie wear'. Short Haired most of the time. Prefers quiet pursuits like art galleries, taking classes, and exploring beautiful builds. She goes to places like 'The Elbow Room' and little out of the way pubs to dance and socialize, not the big shiny clubs. OK, she is NOT like me in these ways: GREAT boobs! Not gianormous, just really nice. (Great butt too). Pretty, Pretty. I am told I am attractive in RL, but my Avi is pretty in a way I would like to be. Fledgling Model. Business Owner. Wealthy - lives on a gorgeous lake, surrounded by forest. Huge Wardrobe. Need i go on? (laugh) For me, SL is a very satisfying venue in which to live out some of my basic fantasies (like living on a lake). I am still me underneath that virtual skin though, even when wearing a fairy or drow or tiny kat (all of which I wear when the mood strikes). _____________________ The key to a contented life: Figure out who you are, what you are, fix what you can and make peace with the rest.
Jesseaitui Petion king of polynesia :P Join date: 2 Jan 2006 Posts: 2,175	02-08-2007 13:37 From: Winter Ventura When I started out in SL.. I spent a great many hours trying to replicate my body in RL, into SL.. I spent many hours of effort trying to get the face right... and in the end.. while it wasn't perfect, it was close. Oh wow, i did this too. I also wanted to be 'myself' in second life. I like the fact that others (Like the OA) do too. I think second life is just that- second life, and the OA mentions not seeing anyone look anything other than a hollywood model or a hunk- yep, it makes me wonder if these people are real unhappy about themselves in RL and have to look like that in SL...or if its just second life and they look like that because they CAN. afterall second life is a game played with avatars, so you have that ability to be good looking. Personally, i was not interested in looking like anything other than myself. I view second life as an amazing extension of the RL me- i can be places and meet with people more intimately than a yahoo chat. It`s great. Anyway, IF they turned you away truthfully cos you are an easier targett- thats understandable. Its like that in first life too. If its for other reasons well, that`s sad, and also goes on in first life. I`ll talk to anyone in any look shape or form, here or in SL, unless i suspect theyre a griefer just around to cause trouble. and unfortunately sometimes when an avatar is anything other than a good looking human, furry, neko, w/e- people immidiately assume theyre up to no good.
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	02-08-2007 13:52 (this sort of thread is why they shouldnt have gotten rid of the "real forums" It should be entirely up to the player what body type and look they want to have in Second Life. Its completely wrong to discriminate against someone for having a full figured avatar. My guess is people who do would also discriminate against overwieght people IRL, and thus are small minded. Its also wrong to tell someone they have to look like they do IRL - (im a size 20 irl , definitely not in SL but thats my choice) it actually takes a lot of effort to make a natural looking heavy shape in SL - the fact that you put the time in becuase thats how you want to be portrayed in virtual space should be appreciated. I used to have a good freind who had the same issues as the ladies who commented on the lack of female skins w/o make up. She ended up making her own but my efforts to get her to put it on sale didnt work. There are a couple skins out there very lightly made up - but they are on the higher end of the market - Chip Midnight , Second Skin labs and Naughty designs come to mind. I personally think women of all shapes and sizes are sexy =) And I also like punky butch women - but maybe thats not relevant to the discusion
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	02-08-2007 14:10 From: Aminom Marvin Types of "regular" users in SL: -Those who treat the game like The Sims MMORPG. Tend to be really boring types. -People who are into pixel porn. Now, I have nothing against sex, but I don't see how two avatars having sex is at all erotic. It is just silly. -People who use it as a pretty chat interface and haven't wandered far from a WA. The above people are the ones who tend to have undifferentiated, barbie doll-like avatars. They account for most of the people in the game. Then there are people who actually want to do something with the game Create truly unique avatars, creative builds, play with scripting, etc. For a very damatic example of the difference between "regular" users and people who use it creatively, first teleport to a random location on the southern continent. It is filled with bad builds, stock houses and shadowy commercial ventures with nothing really unique to offer. Now, teleport to the new sim Saphira, which I recently discovered. Already the group has made it quite a cool place to explore, and I am sure it will only get better. So, "acceptance" in SL depends on what you are trying to do with it. If you make an unusual avatar, "regular" users may ignore it, while the creative will appreciate it. Interesting - however in your comments on acceptance your tone comes accross as NOT accepting quite a few people in SL. In fact you both stereotype them and insult them for what they find errotic. You also assume anyone creative isnt into playing house or SL style cyber sex which comes off condescending. Also a lot of people who make bad builds might be tommorrows serious builders - you have to learn to build - Im certainly far better at working with things in SL than i was 2 years ago. I think the point of your post was to agree we should be accepting, you should have left it at that instead of hammering on the types you find annoying. As an aside - its a fairly major social concern that since childhood women are subjected to the barbie/model/actress/hollywood body image. Im sure weve all seen news stories and read articles on this situation. The fact that in a world where you can look however you want you end up with women's avatars that are cartoon versions of that very body image - should not surprize us Agian ill salute the Original poster for wishing to look as she does IRL and also support those ladies who admit they prefer a more androgynous look. Ill also agree with Auryn that people should be allowed to look as they prefer. But people shouldnt want acceptance while at the same time not accept others.
Thea Woodget Registered User Join date: 6 Feb 2007 Posts: 12	02-08-2007 14:21 I'm new to SL and enjoying discovering the world. My avatar looks as much like me as I could make her... I like to be able to walk around and have people get to know something close to the real me. In real life I'm a semi fitness guru so I'm healthily slim although not stick thin. I'm seriously short at only five foot zero and made my avatar quite short too and have been surprised no one seemed to notice. I do go for the sexy-Ren-fair-wench look a bit but that's who I am in real life too pretty much. I would have a dark avatar but my avatar is extremely pale like me. I'm just glad that in SL unlike The Sims Online (which I beta tested)... you can make a avatar that's rounder or fat. In TSO they're all pretty much size one. You also can't take off any of the make up in TSO and I was glad to make my SL avatar very fresh faced and as non made up as possible. I've been surprised how many people have complimented me on the eyes and asked me how I did them. Basically I just tried to play with the sliders enough to get dark green eyes without make up on. In TSO I had 3 sims, one that was just like me, another that was sort of like me in a Glinda the Good Witch costume and yet another that looked nothing at all like me and was patterned on Samantha from Bewitched. I'm accepting of all avatars, short or fat, goodlooking and plain... of whatever interests as long as they're tolerant to other avatars of various persuations too. I've been surprised so far at how I've had some be a bit snarky althoug not truly griefing when seeing I belong to a Buddhist group. You'd think it would be the pagan or polyamory groups I'm with that would put them off, but nope, seems like it was that I'm a Buddhist that offended this person somehow. I was told there should be no religion in SL, which I felt was beside the point in a way because Buddhism isn't truly a religion so much as a spiritual path. Still I was gracious and thought "what would Buddha do?" and in the end it was no real issue. It did make me brace myself a bit for more of that sort or problem to come up again in SL. Hopefully I can still be spiritual in my own way and be accepted in SL at least by those who are like minded. I guess just like the real world, you're always going to run into some intolerant folks who just don't get you. Thea
Raindrop Drinkwater Globally Creative Join date: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 240	02-08-2007 15:22 I have a few avatars, one of which is a black woman (for which I've recently found the RIGHT hair! Yeahhhh!). Everybody has been nice to her. Well, most people I meet ARE nice. I guess I'm just lucky! _____________________ A2NZ : When creativity goes global. Latex, Casual, Club gear. blog.a2nz.org \|\| Main store in Ufeus
Ace Albion Registered User Join date: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 866	02-09-2007 07:43 Be how you want, and be nice to people who are how they want. Unless how they want is being mean to you or others. Something like that. I've talked with intelligent and creative people who, by turns, have been - blue skinned with no prims, cubes, giant twisted spirals of metal fencing, big boobed barbies, shaven headed gangstas, and little cartoon hedgegogs. Sometimes all those could be the same person _____________________ Ace's Spaces! at Deco (147, 148, 24) ace.5pointstudio.com
bilbo99 Emu Garrett's No.1 fan Join date: 27 Oct 2006 Posts: 3,468	02-09-2007 08:09 From: Aminom Marvin Types of "regular" users in SL: -Those who treat the game like The Sims MMORPG. Tend to be really boring types. -People who are into pixel porn. Now, I have nothing against sex, but I don't see how two avatars having sex is at all erotic. It is just silly. -People who use it as a pretty chat interface and haven't wandered far from a WA. Mebbe you ain't doing it right Aminom? Your attempt at categorising users is the very essence of what discrimination is all about .. very dangerous. There are winged fairy creatures who like Star Trek. There are large felines who are mid-west construction workers. There are probably topless bar go-go dancers who are grandmothers. When I meet a guy/girl/furry I can make no assumptions whatsoever. Gender, build, race, sexual persuasion, fashion sense ... what does it matter to me? The person can be a nice person .. that's all that matters. You imply the newer builds are the most inventive and exciting? Have you looked at some of the older ones? Svarga? Apollo? Clementine? Why judge? don't we get enough of that IRL?
Mandy Carbenell Recent Item Join date: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 847	02-09-2007 08:18 True, bilbo...I think that the character of a person shows even more so in SL! And that's what matters to me, I have found great friends here and even love, lost that and now found it again. Silly?? Maybe so, but it's my SL and that goes for everyone here. And don't judge....I find SL extremely liberating without the "pointing fingers". Mandy C
Auryn Sapeur Registered User Join date: 8 Sep 2005 Posts: 107	02-09-2007 09:49 From: Colette Meiji Interesting - however in your comments on acceptance your tone comes accross as NOT accepting quite a few people in SL. In fact you both stereotype them and insult them for what they find errotic. You also assume anyone creative isnt into playing house or SL style cyber sex which comes off condescending. Also a lot of people who make bad builds might be tommorrows serious builders - you have to learn to build - Im certainly far better at working with things in SL than i was 2 years ago. I think the point of your post was to agree we should be accepting, you should have left it at that instead of hammering on the types you find annoying. As an aside - its a fairly major social concern that since childhood women are subjected to the barbie/model/actress/hollywood body image. Im sure weve all seen news stories and read articles on this situation. The fact that in a world where you can look however you want you end up with women's avatars that are cartoon versions of that very body image - should not surprize us Agian ill salute the Original poster for wishing to look as she does IRL and also support those ladies who admit they prefer a more androgynous look. Ill also agree with Auryn that people should be allowed to look as they prefer. But people shouldnt want acceptance while at the same time not accept others. Amen Collette, that is called "hypocrisy" ... see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy In otherwords, a less extreme version of the statements I made about free speech advocates and idealists who claim to hate stereotypes and generalizations but stereotype and generalize about those not like them.
Akaria Zetkin Registered User Join date: 9 Jul 2006 Posts: 15	02-09-2007 10:53 Hey Raindrop, what hair did you get for your black woman av? I recently found some locs at the same place I got really great skin and finally feel like Akaria's real now. As far as acceptance goes? I spent the first six months of my SL blue. Because the darker skins were bad at best and vomit-inducing at worst. While blue I got a few positive comments, a lot of "are you a smurf?" and even more who just didn't get it. As soon as I became more "normal" looking people were friendlier but no where near the attention that my sexy, bimbo alt gets. I was speaking to someone the other day and she said she didn't think I'd want to talk to a newb like her because I was an oldbie. I thought that was sad. Especially since I feel like a SL adolescent! In other news, I received a spam notecard from some white supremist group. Your dream. Your imagination. I'll say.
Mandy Carbenell Recent Item Join date: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 847	02-09-2007 11:28 From: Akaria Zetkin In other news, I received a spam notecard from some white supremist group. Your dream. Your imagination. I'll say. Now that is really sad... As my avy grew more and more like me in rl...(that was my goal and a challenge) I got positive feedback and also a lot of helpful tips how to improve certain things. Sadly enough comments like "Hi, can I f* you?" and others which I will not mention here also multiplied. I guess if you're an ahole in RL, you're also one in SL....just sad...but true. Mandy C
Jake Reitveld Emperor of Second Life Join date: 9 Mar 2005 Posts: 2,690	02-09-2007 11:36 Well I suppose a certain amount of reverse discrimination is expected. Somehow people who want to be cartoon beauitulf, hang on in clubs wear beautiful clothes and have avi sex are some how dimished in merit from those who choose, well, verssimaltude? Frankly avatars are like shoes, if they make you feel sexy, or however your like to feel, wear them. An Avatar is an expressopm pf your self. Not just how you are, but how you want to be seen. Ther eis nothing wrong with wanting to be a socienty imposed stereotype. In SL that stereotype can, and apparently is, the norm. Just because someone choose to do something you find shallow or silly does not give you the right to get on a high horse and condem them. No matter how persecuted you feel RL. _____________________ ALCHEMY -clothes for men. Lebeda 208,209
Mandy Carbenell Recent Item Join date: 27 Dec 2006 Posts: 847	02-09-2007 11:45 Absolutely and undeniably true, Jake. I for one should never judge someone by their avy, because it's their SL! I have found friends amongst Neko's, Vamps, Goreans, Elves and human avys and enjoy their company and the stories they tell about their SL. To me, it's still an amazing journey! Mandy C
Anya Ristow Vengeance Studio Join date: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 1,243	02-09-2007 12:14 I get lots of compliments on my fat avatar. I get much less in the way of comments either way the less I look like a newbie. As a fat Ruth I took a lot of fat-phobic grief, but with custom skin and prim hair I get almost none. I'm not just a little bit plump, either, and the sliders haven't changed since the Ruth days. I do wish I could get a more natural fat feminine shape with the sliders. From: Kathy Vox One thing about heavier avies is that griefers seem to prefer to create fat avatars. If I see someone heavier, my first thought is that they're a griefer. Right now I look kinda girl-next-door-ish. I haven't met any fat griefers who looked anything but ugly, or had custom skin and prim hair.
Maggie McArdle FIOS hates puppies Join date: 8 May 2006 Posts: 2,855	02-09-2007 13:06 From: Akaria Zetkin Hey Raindrop, what hair did you get for your black woman av? I recently found some locs at the same place I got really great skin and finally feel like Akaria's real now. As far as acceptance goes? I spent the first six months of my SL blue. Because the darker skins were bad at best and vomit-inducing at worst. While blue I got a few positive comments, a lot of "are you a smurf?" and even more who just didn't get it. As soon as I became more "normal" looking people were friendlier but no where near the attention that my sexy, bimbo alt gets. I was speaking to someone the other day and she said she didn't think I'd want to talk to a newb like her because I was an oldbie. I thought that was sad. Especially since I feel like a SL adolescent! In other news, I received a spam notecard from some white supremist group. Your dream. Your imagination. I'll say. Akaria hiyas !! where the hair at? and where are YOU at? You aint called said hi stopped by the club nothin....oh well...how ya doin? white supremist group eh? oh well its thier secondlife...join then show up in a sheet and ask where the bbq is !!!! _____________________ There's, uh, probably a lot of things you didn't know about lindens. Another, another interesting, uh, lindenism, uh, there are only three jobs available to a linden. The first is making shoes at night while, you know, while the old cobbler sleeps.You can bake cookies in a tree. But the third job, some call it, uh, "the show" or "the big dance," it's the profession that every linden aspires to.
Bodhisatva Paperclip Tip: Savor pie, bald chap Join date: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 970	02-09-2007 13:19 Has anyone thrown a "Come as Ruth" party yet? It seems so obvious I wouldn't believe I'm the first to think of it.
Raindrop Drinkwater Globally Creative Join date: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 240	02-09-2007 14:40 From: Akaria Zetkin Hey Raindrop, what hair did you get for your black woman av? I recently found some locs at the same place I got really great skin and finally feel like Akaria's real now. It's "The One" by Gurl6. It's there, somewhere, on the big wall above the "comb my hair" poses. Lookie here! _____________________ A2NZ : When creativity goes global. Latex, Casual, Club gear. blog.a2nz.org \|\| Main store in Ufeus
Metalcorn Cassini Registered User Join date: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 8	02-14-2007 06:20 From: Kathy Vox The women's discussion group on monday nights at Verum's Place actually talked about body image and SL at our first meeting. And weight and race have been two of the things we've talked about. It's a great group, you should stop in. (Meets 7pm eastern at Verum's on monday evenings.) Hi Kathy. Is this group open to anyone? I'd be very interested in stopping by some Monday night if it is...thanks
Kathy Vox Registered User Join date: 5 Apr 2005 Posts: 64	02-14-2007 07:05 From: Metalcorn Cassini From: Kathy Vox The women's discussion group on monday nights at Verum's Place actually talked about body image and SL at our first meeting. And weight and race have been two of the things we've talked about. It's a great group, you should stop in. (Meets 7pm eastern at Verum's on monday evenings.) Hi Kathy. Is this group open to anyone? I'd be very interested in stopping by some Monday night if it is...thanks The group is open to anyone! We'd be happy to have you stop by! Just search for Verum's Place or the events get announced under events as "educational."

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