buying land and still have to pay rent

I have been looking around to buy some land, but very often I see a buy-price but also a rent price.

Is it true that you can buy some pieces of land but still have to pay rent as well????

Yes, you have to pay tier fees on every piece of land you buy. Tier is usually paid monthly.

Yes, I know about the Tier-fee.
But, sometimes you see a piece of land advertised for sale at L$ ....... and L$ .... rent monthly.

They may be providing you with two options. Buy the land at this price or rent it at this one.

I would guess that it means the owner is willing to sell it, and if you buy, you have complete control and don't pay any rent to yourself, or then they are willing to rent it out. You can't sell AND rent out land at the same time.

Are you sure you're not looking at land that's on a private island? If you're in the land-search window, you can select the type of land you want.

Land on private islands sometimes is listed with both a purchase price and then a rental fee. The 'purchase price' is typically rather low compared to mainland pricing. The rental fee is due to the owner of the private island. In those cases you actually don't pay any tier to LL, your rental to the owner of the island helps them pay their tier to LL.

On mainland, of course, it's completely different. When you buy the land you own it outright, aside from the tier obviously.

One way you can check for sure, is if you are looking at the land, check the covenant. Private island land typically always has a covenant. Mainland land, on the other hand, does not have a covenant (as near as I can tell, I've never seen mainland with a covenant.)

-Atashi

If the land requires rent (rather than tier), then you've never really bought it. The land belongs to the island owner, and you're just paying for the privilege of renting from them.

If you're very fortunate, and careful in your choice of landlords, you can sell that privilege to another resident, perhaps even for a profit.

If you're not so fortunate, and not careful in your choice of landlords, you can lose the land and its "purchase" price.

Caveat emptor.

Hi, a lot of my mainland land has both a buy price and rent price. That is because you can rent them OR buy them. if you buy mainland then you just owe LindenLab whatever tier fees you owe them. If you rent them you owe LL nothing and me some amount of money regularly.

Uh, just like everyone already said I guess.
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I am not sure what the real different between rent and buy on a private island.
As a private island owner, I have the power to reclaim the land anytime I want even if you bought the land.
I would said that all private island in one way or other are all just just rental. The only different is when people advertise for buy, they usually charge a large up front fee for the privilege to rent and might allow resell. And for people advertise to rent, they usually charge a small fee (0 to a few hundreds L$) and a more expensive tier.

some people on privet sims are selling land to new residents ( who dont know any better ) for 100 L$ but allso charging them rent .

They cant resell the land or devide it only give it back to the sim owner wene they realise that they are being jooped into paying the sim owners land teir fees

Realisticly they offer is not that bad for people who cant actualy afford the high pricing of land .... but the truth is ... they would be better off renting a plot

Anyone who owns land in SL has to pay tier fees. the only difference is whether you pay the tier to the island owner or to Linden Lab. If someone were to buy land on a private island, and then NOT pay the tier fees, the owner of the land would be perfectly within their rights to reclaim the land. This is usually stated in a covenant.

There seems to be a widespread misconception particularly among new people that private sim owners are somehow "scamming" people by charging tier fees.

Private island owners who provide land for rent -- no matter what the price -- are legitimate. They have land tier to cover, and asking for a rent that covers that tier, plus some reasonable profit, is a legitimate service.

But offering private island land "for sale" is at best misleading and at worst an outright scam. There is no agency for enforcing this sale, since Linden only recognizes the island owner. Any sale contract between owner and residents is entirely dependent on the integrity of the owner to honor that contract. Period. Even using the word "contract" is a generous concession under the circumstances, since contracts can usually be enforced and this one cannot.

Calling rental transaction a sale is a scam as far as I'm concerned. IF the owners are upfront and simply say "You're paying a single lump sum for the privilege of renting my land," then I may question the judgment of anyone who accepts those terms, but I don't question the ethics of the owner who offers them. They've disclosed the facts.

Generally it IS a scam, because paying a private island owner for tier cannot be any cheaper than owning mainland property and paying LL the tier directly.

You cannot tell me the island owner will simply charge people the exact same rate as LL, because then the island owner makes no net profit from the rental. So an island owner is definitely going to be charging extra to the renter to make a profit, above and beyond the base LL tier fees.

What is the "added value" of paying an island owner a high rental fee vs just paying LL the lower, standard mainland tier fee directly?

Not being able to find decent and affordable piece of land on your own because land barons have sucked them all up and you can't afford your own sim?

Think about that one for awhile......it is totally possible for an island owner to make a profit while charging the same as Linden Labs. It just might not be an immediate profit.

A lot of private island owners charge the same tier as Linden lab and still make a profit. However to do so the business needs to be structured as a real business, with a long-term plan. Not a get-rich quick scheme...aka a scam.

Besides which, it wouldn't be a scam even to pay the island owner MORE than LL charges, there are a lot of people in SL who do just that and are quite happy with the arrangement.
The "added value" can be different things to different people, but just for an example, some consider it an added value not to have a lot of lag or a rotating sign next door. That's something you just can't guarantee on the mainland.

People also seem to forget that there is a very LARGE upfront chunk of change when buying a private island. And somehow it's deemed to be a "scam" when somehow that has to be covered. Successful private island landlords aren't paying $1675 upfront to make $20 a month above and beyond tier, I can guarantee that.

Oh nonsense.

It's quite easy to make money with an island and charge exactly the same as Linden does. The key is that the large parcels (aka an island) cost less in tier than a bunch of small ones of the same size.

I own a 4096 on a private island owned and managed by a large internet tycoon. I pay her $24 per month. I would pay more than that to Linden. So how does she make money? It's because she pays $295 for the entire island and her cost for 1/16th is $18.43.

Let's do the math:

Island = $300 for 65536 square meters.

Divide that into 16 pieces, the island owner is paying $18.75 for each 4096 square meter piece. If they charge $25.00 for each piece, they get $100.00 a month profit.

Now, if you want 4096 square meters on the mainland from Linden Labs, you need to pay them between $31 and $35 a month, so you're better off paying rent on an island than paying rent to Linden Labs... if you're renting a small enough parcel.

And 4096 is not that small a parcel.

Would I pay that much rent *and* pay for the land? No, I'd expect to pay less than $25 rent on an island 4096, even on a new island, if I was *also* paying up front... because the risk is higher, and besides I know what I'm paying and what they're paying and if they won't do it for less someone else will. But the point is that by dividing up the sim rent there is room for the island owner to make a profit undercutting Linden Labs at least up to 4096 square meter parcels.

This kind of rent (upfront fee plus monthly rent) is quite legitimate, common, and standardised in property law in many countries. In the UK at least, it is called a leasehold agreement, and usually includes a clause that makes it automatically expire after a few dozen years. In Japan, almost all common rental agreements have this too, under an item usually translated as "key money" (used to be quite common to have to pay such key money in UK rentals a few dozen years ago too).

Nothing scammy about it. Not even irregular. Not something I enjoy paying either.

I consider "owning" my three 4096 parcels on the estate manager's island a real deal; it is no different than "owning" from Lindens except that it is beautiful and peaceful, the estate manager is wonderful and responsive (no waiting for a response that never comes)...there are no daily ugly surprises and at all time I am aware the name of the game can change at any moment...just like with mainland. I also "own" mainland just for the chaos of it.

The prices charged to "buy" the island parcels keeps out the riff raff and the land speculators and my experience in SL remains positive.

I know my tier fees are going to someone I respect and who does a good job and who provides me with a wonderful environment.

He took major risk financially that I am not willing to take and I'm gratefully every day he did .
But you gotta have someone with a good reputation who is responsive.

I went by work of mouth and also decided to stay away from really big real estate holders as it occured to me that such large financial exposure would be more likely to collapse.

Anyway, I recommend the island experience highly...but shop around and feel out the estate manager first...IM other owners where you want to buy and see what they think...do your research.

Except it is different......
Since on the mainland you'd really own your parcel (and could resell your parcel, if you ever wanted to move). On the mainland if you own land, no one (except the the Lindens, i suppose) can swoop in and take the land from you (unless you put it for sale yourself)

On an Estate you can't sell your 4096 parcel to another player if you wanted to (the best you can do is hope the Estate owner might "buy" it back from you, but they most certainly don't have to). The Estate owner always owns all the land... and can reclaim your land whenever they want.

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That said, i'd rather rent land on an Estate than on the Mainland. And renting land on the Mainland and on an Estate is no different. except that it [The Estate] is beautiful and peaceful, the estate manager is [usually] wonderful and responsive But thats only when you're talking about =Renting=..

=Owning= a parcel of land on the Mainland and an Estate is quite different.

Some estate owners permit the resale of the land without their intervention. Not all estate owners do that. The new owner must be mindful of the covenant.

So can Linden Lab. It is written into the TOS:

Linden Lab has the right at any time for any reason or no reason to suspend or terminate your Account, terminate this Agreement, and/or refuse any and all current or future use of the Service without notice or liability to you. In the event that Linden Lab suspends or terminates your Account or this Agreement, you understand and agree that you shall receive no refund or exchange for any unused time on a subscription, any license or subscription fees, any content or data associated with your Account, or for anything else.

On my estate, we can and do sell the island parcels we "own"...the estate owner just collects tier from us and profits from the difference between what he pays to the Lindens and what he collects...

I feel just as secure "owning" from him as I do from the Lindens especially since my personal experience isn't at risk daily from a neighbor installing a sex club or ugly building or huge spinning sign...

And on the island, no lag, stable neighborhood and growing friendships...its the best of the SL experience IMHO...

tho that being said I do have a spread on the mainland just for the SL chaos of it all..that's part of SL too.

But I need my retreat and sound of the waves crashing to clear my head and regroup.

Hey, if LL labs gets bought out or goes down, all the "land" goes...

Totally untrue.... Being a owner of 4 sims I am fully qualified to expalin the commonalities and the differnces beween Mainland and Private sim. Simland can be sold and divided if the option has been checked on the estate tools which unless your the sim owner you cant modify. These are things you should check along with the covenants BEFORE you buy a Private sim lot

First and what bothers me the most is ownership, I have seen many people say you cannot own simland, THIS IS FALSE. Whether you own Mainland or sim land when the land is in your name , you own it, no one can tell you any different. Other forms of tennancy maybe daily, weekly or monthly rentals inwhich the land does NOT transfer into your name. WHEN LAND IS TRANSFERED IN YOUR NAME, YOU OWN THE LAND, both on mainland and private sim this is undeniably true.

Second, I read someone ask what are the benefits of Private sim ownership as opposed to mainland ownership. It was followed by a lenghty and well understood answer, but i will summerize it. GREIFERS ARE BANNED FROM THE SIM almost instantly never to return, Peaceful living, lag free enviroment, no eyesores, no waiting for weeks to have a problem fixed.

To sum it up, Private sim ownership is everything you wish mainland ownership was but due to the resources LL has, cannot give you.