Have the Lindens starting doing anything about copy cat designers?

As always, theres always someone floating around copying peoples hard primmed work. Lucky for me, I have a IMed confession. I also have threats, and an IM telling me they are going to sell the work for 30l's full permissions.

Have the lindens finally decided to start banning these people? Or are we still stuck to reporting, which may never do any good, and hoping for karma to get them later?

Please note I did not mention the name of the person admitting to copying. I'm not here to flame them because what good will it do? Get him banned from a few malls maybe. I'm hoping the lindens will finally shape up and do something, atleast to those who flat out ADMIT they did this.

use the mighty DMCA hammer?

It depends upon what you mean when you say "copy". Do you mean the person has somehow pirated an exact duplicate of your work that you made and is now selling it? Or, has the person created a similar work from scatch and is selling it?

The person took a full primmed item that my BF made, copied it prim for prim with a different texture. The item is a fur coat we left it Mod. for people that are bigger or smaller. I know thats our own screw up right there to be polite to the other 99.9% of the SL community.

The copier flat out admitted that it was "hard work" to copy it prim for prim. He even has the same exact number of pieces to the fur coat. It is truely an exact copy except textures.

I'm curious. If this is really happening, I mean pixel-for-pixel exploit copying of textures, prims, etc... then why aren't we seeing really expensive stuff? Why am I not, say, seeing 4k RaC skins in business in a box stores?

I was told the cache exploiting was fixed. I suppose someone could piece something together with screenshots. I just see the desperation some people have to make money, and I wonder why the "big guys" never seem to get copied.

Oh, well if it was copied by eye, go to the discount and grocery stores sometime. Look at the generic foods sitting next to the brand names. They taste alike, look alike, are packaged alike. If you are upset that there is a "Wal-Mart" brand of your product, well, that's life.

Why the big guys don't get copied? Well I know that I could never make a skin so trying to copy that would be insane.

Theres also always the thought of not noticing. This copy cat was a renter in my sim 2 doors from my BFs store for months. I don't know when he initially copied the item, but we didn't notice it till last week.

Its not about being upset about a "walmart" brand. Hell if he finds it beneficial to sell it full perms for 30 bucks more power to him we still make much more than that and sell our shair.

However, I have a serious issue with someone who blantantly ADMITS to copying it prim for prim, threatens my co sim owner, which he did, and then things its ok. I feel if someone flat out admits to copying it the lindens should be able to do something about it. I know there are other people who have had similiar issues and posted here in case maybe one of those people read it and have more knowledge on what the lindens may do for it.

Actually, in many cases the same company is producing both the brand name product and its generic knock-off. This is to take advantage of the fact that some people are willing to pay more money for the satisfaction of buying a brand-name product.

Again, why should they do something about it? Should the government stop Wal-Mart? At least you are competing with another store, the products in discount stores in real life sit on the same shelf. It sounds as if you are upset that he admitted to doing something that you acknowledge isn't wrong?



That was a lot more true in the past. Now companies are learning that that assumption lumps them in with generic stuff whether they created it or not. I have a friend who works in distribution for a discount retail chain, and they say that era is drawing to a close. The stigma hurts them more than it helps.

I am not sure anything can be done if they have made their version of the coat themselves using your BF's coat as a template.

I know it happens as I've had a person contact me telling me they were using one of my prim skirts to learn how to make one like it to put in their shop. They IM'd me to ask why I have certain flexi settings on the different prim panels and do I suggest they do that as well for their copies.

The truly humorous part was when they told me I should be flattered that they decided to use my creations as a "platform" to start their own store.

Not being an attorney myself, I'm not going to try to explain copyright protections...but unless they are actually selling copies of your actual creation, there is very little you can do if the Lindens won't step up.

Best,
~Ari

There is nothing that can be done about this without some sort of process of dispute resolution in place. That process costs money. I know that Linden Labs has some sort of promise of protecting intellectual property, but just from reading anecdotal accounts, it doesn't really seem to help anyone. Which doesn't suprise me. If Linden Labs can't field basic customer service, then it can't field a dispute resolution process for intellectual property.

Of course, your First Life dispute resolution processes (i.e., lawsuits) are available. They can be effective. However, they cost money to use (i.e., lawyers), and most people aren't making enough money from their Second Life intellectual property creations to be able to afford a lawyer.

The economics preventing you from suing are the same economics that give Linden Labs no incentive to effectively deal with intellectual property disputes. It takes money to pay someone to investigate and decide a case. From where does that money come?

No, there's nothing that can be done in most cases because in most cases nothing should be done. Skirts, coats, etc., are generic items. You can't patent them, you can't trademark them. Perhaps you can trademark or patent certain innovations on them, but until you do you've little recourse. If they steal your textures you can claim copyright, but as has been said that wasn't the case here.

If it weren't for people pulling other people's stuff apart to see how to make things, well, there wouldn't be much content on SL at all. This may be more blunt than it should be, but if Joe Q. Lazy can so easily copy what you make, maybe the problem isn't LL. It seems obvious to me in this case that even if LL was as diligent as they should be, they'd not do anything in this case.

A good way of dealing with it, maybe, is to make an updated version of the item he steals, and make the copied one a freebie. Eventually he'll get tired of copying what you are just going to give away once he starts selling it.

It needn't be a freebie forever, just until he stops copying. I would imagine he'd get tired and move on to someone else.

Very good points to the last two ladies, and whereas I make the money in SL, i'd rather use it to pay my car payment than to pay a lawyer to take out someone that karma will handle lol.

My BF has good customers, even when this copy cat was two doors down with the knock off. People will buy what they like, and if someone truely feels that it is more beneficial for them to do this then more power to them.

Thanks for letting me know how far the lindens will go (*snort laugh*) to help people in these situations.

p.s. OMG I can't believe she actually had the nerve to ask you because she was copying your stuff. That is even funnier than this dude saying it was "hard work" to copy the fur coat.

I'm still confused as to why you think you need help. What do you think LL should do, when the person hasn't done anything legally wrong?

I had actually considered the prospect of marking it as a freebie if I do truely find out that he did as he threatened, which is to mark it down from 300 to 30 and sell it full perms.

I agree that if we didn't see other peoples work some things would never be made in SL. I don't agree with someone buying something, clicking the "linked parts" button so they see one prim at a time, creating a prim, and making it exactly the same as the one in the original. I consider that as much a violation as copying a texture personally because we did take the time and effort to create this ourselves by scratch, and he just went behind us, put the numbers in, and outcame an identical. I'm sure its also just as common because a lot of designers mark things mod for the benefit of other players whose but maybe 10 times bigger than the designers, but we do that in good faith that some Joe Q. Lazy won't come along and rip our products.

Vye I think you and I are at a complete standstill and we should just kinda let it go

I think he has done something completely wrong whether it be legal or moral. He flat out admitted to copying an item that we made ourselves. He didn't create it himself, he copied it prim for prim. I don't feel that that is right by any means, and i'm sorry that we can't agree on that.

And just to further clarify Vye, let me give you an example. The first primmed skirt.

I don't know who made it, it was a great idea, but lets just say for kicks it was me. Someone came and bought the first prim skirt introduced to SL and copied it prim for prim. I'd be offended. However, if it were knee length and someone saw it and thought "nice idea" and made a formal length i'd see that as different. It would be something they made themselves without copying anothers work prim for prim.

I doubt ours was the first prim coat in SL. I do know though that we did the work ourselves and this copier did not. Thats where I have the problem with it.

Do you have a patent or even any copyright on your product? When you get a patent or copyright, then there's nothing you can do about it. Until then, not LL's problem, and completely legal for anyone to make their own product that looks like yours. That's the ENTIRE reason for patents. Whether they copied prim for prim, or it just looks similar.

Yeah...she wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer

Giving away the original coat will certainly undercut his chances of making a profit from your BF's hard work.

Most prim items need to be modifiable for customers to adjust them, and I for one am not going to penalize my customers because some lazy person decides to copy a design. It just doesn't make good sense from a business standpoint.

I know it's frustrating and a little insulting, but I don't worry about these people for several reasons:
- They appear to be quite limited in their own creativity if they need to copy someone else's items to a T in order to produce a quality product to sell. I have no issues if they want to learn how to create using my items, and I'm happy to answer basic questions if they ask. We all need to start somewhere.

- Running a successful business takes many, many hours of hard work. Designing/creating the items is the easiest part IMO, but the question remains: will they be around in 1,3, or 6 months when they realize marketing, customer service, land fees are part of the bargain as well and take a lot of time, energy and money?

- Some people will buy the copied version simply because it's priced lower, but loyal customers will continue to shop at my store because of the customer service, continual addition of new products, and the fact that my store will be around for as long as SL is still a viable financial platform.

Whatever you decide to do Baby I wish you the best! IM me in world and I'll buy you a drink and we can share stories and hopefully have a nice giggle

~Ari

Selling an item will full perms is asking for trouble when there are copy-cats out there. If you are selling items of clothing, some perms have to be included, as we are not alll the same shape etc.

I don't create clothes, thus don't have this problem.

As soon as you allow Modify into an item you are selling, you are allowing them to take your hard-work apart piece by piece, and thus each prim can be copied and reconstructed, thus they then become the creator.

If you buy Land, it shows when you bought it. Unfortunately, when you create an object for sale, there is no date on it, so it can be difficult to prove who is the original creator and who the copy-cat is.

I design and create textured objects from 1 Prim to 200+ Prims.

1 Prim objects are Copy & Modify, so you can change the size etc.

2+ Prim objects are Copy only - No Modify allowed, thus safeguarding my creation and work put into making it in the first place. Thus safeguarding anyone linking their own item to it and becoming the "new" creator.

No, you've admitted more than once he did the work himself. He didn't design it himself, but to be honest which one of us invented the halter top, or the thong? How many different ways are there to make them?

People copy because people aren't creative enough to make their own items. Like you said before, the best artisans don't suffer this because if you have the skill it takes to copy them you're probably making your own stuff. So... maybe the key is upgrading your stuff and burying the competition with quality and not intellectual property complaints.

Give it away for a week, or a month. Eventually if he has a brain he'll realize he's wasting prims on something that people aren't buying and move on to something else. Or better yet, just live and let live. In the end you and Peter Pan are going to have to deal with generics, be it coats or peanut butter.

well you can always try to keep doing something new, right? they can steal your stuff, but they can't steel your ideas, right?
and then people kinda notice that your head is a great stuff generator. the only advantage you get in digital world is innovation.

now, SL wasn't made for the purpose of giving the big opportunity for everyone to become successful with virtual businesses. i really don't believe that is the goal here. i usually say imagination makes money but money doesn't buy imagination.

people that copy have their own cross to carry. it's not fun to copy, neither it will make them feel better about anything. now the copy people make money, yes it's really unfair. but then again if you do it for the money (and we're talking about ridicules amounts, most of times) then you should know right from the start that digital content will keep being copied no matter what and SL will keep being hacked no matter what. this is a given.

so before creating big expectations and demand large scale measures maybe people should feel the ground beneath their feets and relax a bit, yes? so maybe instead of the hard-working bullshit, just have a little bit of fun doing it and don't do it otherwise. it's a world full of monkeys out there.

This tactic has been used in a similar situation with a Star Wars Clone Trooper uniform that someone else "copied" off a guy. The original was better. The original maker ended up putting his out for free to undercut the guys that ripped it off.

What's ironic is that it's still up for debate as to whether or not the item was actually "copied" since the original was a copy of something we can all take a look at at any time.

But anyway, I'd go with this tactic. Whenver the market catches on to your gig, it's time to switch up the game!