Completely enclosing neighbors land

I am in the middle of a very large build. It is a 20,000+ meter Manor home and formal garden. I have purchased all of the land required but there is a single 512 parcel in what will be the primary structure. ( the buyer bought this land and nevr took down the previous owners for sale sign, i didnt notice untillit was too late that it was not for sale now).

Question is if I proceed to build around this "hole" in the property Am I going to be concidered to be a greifer ? I already have well over $1,000 US into this project and am not willing to break it all down, divi up the land and wait for it to sell, hopfully at whatI paid for it. So I can start again.

Have IM'd the owner offering to buy him/her an adjoining parcel + L$ , as a trade. Has not benn online , unknown if message has been delivered.

If you do not prohibit the land owner from accessing his property, then no, you're not in trouble for owning all the land surrounding him and developing it in a reasonable manner.

Continue to make reasonable efforts to contact the land owner. It could be that they just don't play very often, and a reasonable offer for their land may be responded to reasonably.

However, if you can't contact them, or if you can contact them and they are unwilling to sell at a reasonable price or become a problem for you, your only real option is to locate contiguous land elsewhere, sell what you have, and move on. Because the Lindens will do absolutely nothing to resolve disputes between land owners.

The Manor house WILL be a private residence. No access to uninvited guests to wander about. Therefor the owner will have to TP into the ( elevator shaft of a property) or drop in from above. Selling and moving elsewhere is not an option I am willing to concider

providing you have IM-ed them then they should get your message if/when they do relog. If they don't return I assume LL will close the account and resell the land.
A First Lander would probably understand your situation and accept your offer, hopefully.
In the meantime, can you make do with a 512sm 'folly' in a courtyard or similar?

added: a pain I sympathise .. but the thought of a 'sleeping tenant' .. or a ghost I find just slightly amusing.

Set group only access on.

Make that landowner on access list.

Use ejecting security orb near house.

He can get to his land (not restricted) but not into the private residence (orbs radius).

You can also make sure its no fly, no build, no script, etc for nongroup.

Is group necessary here?

Ekeinus, a shot in the dark; if you pull up owners profile, are there any groups they belong to and if so, do any of the members know of this person's whereabouts?

Actually, this is a situation in which the Lindens should act. I've come across a couple of small holders who WON'T move out of a block to make it contiguous now: their justifications seem to break down as follows:

1) It's MY land and you are trying to STEAL IT FROM ME (yes, been said to me!)

2) Move away, buster, I like it quiet here and you are spoiling my enjoyment

3) my friends/customers/systems need this specific LM and I ain't gonna go through the grief of updating them.

Now, I would have thought that only the third of these has any particular merit -the others are simple jealousy, of the "**** the rich" school: and all three can be fixed incredibly easily, at t technical level. Fixing an enclosed parcel so it's at the side of the enclosing lot should be dead simple, in terms of a "lot swap" capability, and it instantly gets over both mature, and mean-minded, objections. I can well imagine that certain curmudgeonly types would view this as a loss in the great scheme of Fighting Da Man - but the alternative is to guarantee a syatem in which neighbors end up daggers-drawn all the time.

Which is daft.

Building a surrounding build that redefines the identity of a parcel (ie, defines it as "the lift shaft of your manor house" is at least antisocial, if not actually against the TOS.

Did you create this land parcel by merging First Lands, or was it sold to you that way?

i do think it would be agains the TOS to "elevator shaft" his land. I would suggest you reconsidere your project in a way it doesn't obstruct your neightbor like this.

my 2 cents

Why not sell all your land while land prices are high and buy another lot somewhere else?

It will be hard to find another 20k+sqm plot but it will be very easy to sell your land off to cover the cost of the new plot.

I dont expect to be using daggers here. Ive Im politely offering a land swap and $L for his trouble, even if he is at least part of its cause.

Im not going to fight him here ..I will just go on and ignore him if he wont agree. And to concider me "Da Man" is pretty far fetched given the way in which I run Robin Hood Realty

RHR buys land in big US$ chunks, adds the land tier fee and sells it of AT COST. Buyers are limited to 2 purchases of small parcels every 90 days. Tat keeps it from being churned by land barons and gives the average user at least a shot at getting a homestead at the same price as the big dealers.So beingreferd to as DA Man is pretty funny to me : )

Elanthius, I have a conciderable investment in time here as well, I could never recoop my investment, land tier (x2 months if it dosent sell quick) and my billable hours that i spent building my own home.

How I aquired this was by buying parcels from someone who had bought a new region on the mainland. The original post explains how this particular piece endend up in the state its in, if the owner had removed the FOR SALE sign that was from the previous owner, all this would have been avoided. ( Sign is STILL there as I write this )

Other than your last paragraph sounding a bit like an advert Ekeinus (!) if you are used to selling chunks of land, this might be your last option

Da man LOL .. this is just soo representative of the real world?

I accompanied a friend to a region where there was a plethora of land plots for sale yesterday and some of those actually were't despite having signs up.
I think that should be regarded as contravening terms of service

Ekeinus, it's not clear what you want from this thread. You asked if surrounding someone's build could be considered griefing, but at the same time you basically said that you weren't prepared to consider not doing so or doing anything else instead. It seems to me that you're hoping we'd all say it was OK, so that when the 512 owner complained you could point him or her to this thread.

I'm still confused as to how this situation came about - you flew into a new area and started buying parcels, but then oops, you reached the one that was marked as for sale but wasn't. Why didn't you stop buying at that point? Couldn't you ask the person you bought the land from for a refund? That's perfectly viable as long as it wasn't Governer Linden, and as long as you buy the necessary amount of land somewhere else within the same month, you haven't lost any tier either. And the "billable hours spent building your own home" are billable to no-one but yourself, since after all, it was your own home.

Ekeinus, I think you have done all that is reasonable trying to resolve this matter, and I would not think of you as a griefer. I would keep the option open to a land swap, or buy the owner out at a fair market value. I would go ahead and continue to build right around his lot, making sure to not extend onto his land. Since we are able to teleport anywhere around SL, you do not have to give him access to your land, as he can get to his land anytime he likes. And don’t let the fact that he will not sell, deter you from finishing your build. If your worried that someone will consider you a griefer because you are building right around this guys land, then I would probably go as far as putting a privacy screen, with a nice scenic texture on his side.

Linden labs won’t do anything to you, even if he files an abuse report on you. I had a neighbor that wanted to buy as much land in the sim that they could, and they put up giant signs with their logo on it. It was 6 10x10 prims high, by 3 10x10 prims wide, and served no purpose other than to try and make us sell. We contacted the Linden, but they said they could do nothing as the group had a right to build on their land. The good news is that one of the other neighbors sold me her land at a great price, and ended up selling to the jerk for double the price. In less than a month, all that land was back up for sale at far less than he paid me for it.

Sorry but I guess I would "side" (not that there are sides) with the neighbor. He/she has every right to be there as you do. If I bought a 512, I should be able to do with it what I please - not be relegated to someone's elevator shaft because they own all the remain contiguous land.

Now, if the person comes back in game and is reasonable, they'll likely sell to you - but you should wait a reasonable amount of time to make that call IMO.

I don't think anyone is disputing the smaller land owners right to do with his land has he wishes, just as the other land owner has this same right, to do with it what he pleases!

So you're proposing an eminent domain seizure if you're a bigger landowner than someone else? It's one thing for Linden Labs to take back land that has been abandoned, but you want them to take back land that's simply "inconvenient" because it interferes with some land baron's business plan.

Whoo boy, glad I don't live anywhere near you. God forbid that I should be one of those unreasonable "small holders" who believes they should be able to keep the land they bought without having to justify their reason for doing so.

Agree Regan

You had best hope that your landowner does not return to his property, decide that what you've done is an affront and decide that he wants to out-a**hole you for his own entertainment. You could be in for a protracted battle with some really foul stuff on that 512, if that landowner has a certain personality bent. Boxing someone in and putting up ban lines/security orbs is rude enough behavior that you are setting yourself up for a war if the other party takes offense.

Just sayin'.....

If someone purposely boxed me in because they made the mistake of not realizing not all plots were for sale, I would consider it griefing absolutely. It's not his problem that the lot was no longer open to you to buy...though like I said, most reasonable people will sell as long as they are not being bullied.

And agree that if you insist on building this and the landowner comes back and doesn't like it or doesn't wish to sell, it's going to be mighty unpleasant I suspect. Then, you'll both be griefing

"Reasonable" and "bullied" are the key words here. This is how nasty land battles in SL get started. One person takes an aggressive action and next thing they know there is a 70m tall, particle spewing, chat spamming penis tower textured with Tub Girl in the middle of their build -- and the land set to sell for $100k. It won't be the first time.

Actually, all this would have been avoided if you had done your due diligence. It is not the responsiblity of the owner of the land to make sure you knew it would not be for sale when you wanted it, you had the tools to see that you did not own the land in question before you started your build. Enclosing their property in an "elevator shaft" would put you in the wrong and if the Lindens do become involved, you would be the one forced to provide a remedy. You are in a bad situation but it is one of your making by not "dotting all your i's and crossing all your t's".

It is not nice, but not illegal and not against the TOS. A person can teleport into their land, access is never blocked. Just don't place prims or particle emitters that cross his land, that is against the TOS.

I think the right thing here is to IM the person, offer a reasonable amount (giving off a sense of desperation may result in him jacking the price otherwise), and otherwise just ignore the land and build as you please.

Put a big smiley face sign where he will notice it, and a notecard with an offer. Offer to buy him 512 waterfront someplace in exchange for his plot. IM him, then just leave it be. A person can build anything on their own land provided it does not otherwise violate the TOS, for example nudity on PG land. That includes elevator shafts, big walls, giant spinning glowing red cubes, "For Sale" signs, etc.

If you do this out of spite you are a bad person, but not violating the TOS. If you do it but not out of spite, you are just a bad builder.