One week ago I went to look at houses and clicked on one to see the cost of it. Next thing I know I had the blue screen showing 2500L was being taken from my account to pay the owner for the house. I immediately contacted the owner of the house and told him it was laggy on his land and I had only wanted to see the cost of the house...NOT purchase it. The owner told me to try to return the house and he would refund me my lindens. Well...
the house was no transfer so...returning it did not work. I was then instructed by the owner of the house to delete the house from my inventory...contact LL and have them contact him to verify the house was no longer in my inventory.
I deleted the house...filed an abuse report with LL and have heard nothing back from LL. I contacted the owner of the house and sent him a picture of my inventory showing the house in question is not in there. I sent the owner of the house a picture of my inventory showing the house is no longer in there. I was told this was not good enough and that I had been in SL long enough to know better. He and I exchanged words and he has not only muted me now but I am banned from his land.
My friends have tried to talk to him and get him to give me my money back and they have in turn been banned from his land too. The last one to talk to him was told he was building and would not come to talk with them about a house...he said anything they needed to know could be said in IM. Eventually his partner ended up talking to my friend and the person I had been talking to just stopped talking to my friend all together.
This person has now said he will not refund my money to me no matter what is said...how do I seek justice? 2500L is not chump change in SL and I work hard inworld to make my lindens. Any suggestions or advice is welcome.
Star
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Unwanted House Transaction |
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FlamingStar Ceriano
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 61
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02-01-2010 08:23
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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02-01-2010 08:33
It's a difficult problem for the seller, largely because of the amount involved. It's easy for someone to make claims that aren't true, and the seller has no way of knowing one way or the other. If I were the seller, I'd try to imagine how clicking on an object could cause the object to be bought without a further click and, for that sort of money, I wouldn't feel inclined to trust the story I was being told. The pic of your inventory would prove nothing. You could have rezzed the house first.
I'm not suggesting that you are making it up, Star - I do sympathise with you. I'm putting it from the seller's point of view. You know you and you know exactly what happened, but you are a complete stranger to the seller. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Ee Maculate
Owner of Fourmile Castle
Join date: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 919
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02-01-2010 08:34
With customer service like this you can always bask in the knowledge that he's probably not making as much money as he could be!
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Marianne Little
A hopeless fool
Join date: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 645
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02-01-2010 08:35
Well Star, my advice is not what you want to hear. Forget it, write it up as a lesson learnt.
You can't blame no other than yourself. You get up a dialog box for "buy". To click happy on things you can't see properly is only your own fault. I know, it sucks. But the seller can't really trust you. What keeps you from taking a copy and rename it, and hide it in another folder, then pretend all innocent? No transfer means no refund. This should be well known to you. LL will not get involved in disputes between residents. Frankly, they have better things to do that check peoples inventories for things bought by a mistake. If this was common practice, I can't imagine the flood of abuse reports filed for things ppl didn't mean to buy. I did just the same this weekend, I was going to buy a skinpack in "Medium". I had the demo, liked what I saw, and wasn't paying attention when I purchased the pack. My avatar had turned and I bough the "Sunkissed" pack instead. I know it's easy to do such mistakes. But, I don't blame anyone else than myself. |
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Infiniview Merit
The 100 Trillionth Cell
Join date: 27 Apr 2006
Posts: 845
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02-01-2010 08:37
It sounded pretty fishy to me when he told you to contact the Lindens to make sure it was removed from your inventory. That is rarely something that happens that quickly. And I do not even think that something like that is worth their time. I mean I sincerely doubt that the voice
customer service have the tools to look into your inventory and see that a house was deleted. They would tell you to file a support ticket. Well by now if you suspect that it was a case of fraud then you can AR them. But commonly a mod/copy item is non-refundable due to the fact that it is copiable. This sounds like it is going to come down to a case of one person's word vs anothers. And unless this person has been scamming lots of others. They probably will tell you to be more careful next time. _____________________
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Kara Spengler
Pink Cat
Join date: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 1,227
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02-01-2010 08:39
I had been in SL long enough to know better. He is BSing right there if he thinks account age affects lag. I have been in SL almost 4 years and last year I was also in a laggy area and accidentally purchased something that was set to do that when touched. _____________________
Those Lindening Lindens!
'O predictable experience, O predictable experience, Never shalt we define thee. Our users think that means no lagging, But we say they want no shagging. O predictable experience, O predictable experience, We love you null expression.' |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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02-01-2010 08:44
He is BSing right there if he thinks account age affects lag. I have been in SL almost 4 years and last year I was also in a laggy area and accidentally purchased something that was set to do that when touched. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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Marianne Little
A hopeless fool
Join date: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 645
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02-01-2010 08:45
Phil, you know if it's possible to set something for sale the first time it's touched? It has to come up a dialogue box, where you must click "Buy" or "Pay"?
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Danziel Lane
Ich mag SL - I love SL
Join date: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 475
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02-01-2010 08:45
Well, there are a few mistakes in that story.
First on your side: filing an AR was not so smart, filing a ticket would have been better. AR needs some abuse to make the Lindens look at it, but it was an agreement between you to ask them to look into your inventory. However, I really doubt they would have done. So second: a seller, who demands Linden Lab to look up a customer's inventory does not know much about how this business works. LL does not interfere in the businesses of residents, plus, do they really have the time to work on such problems? So, the seller was wrong to ask you for LL to interfere, like he was also not very smart to ask you to return a non transferable object. The rest is a matter of trust. He obviously does not trust you, though from your side you trusted him, deleting the object and now standing without the money and without anything for that. Demanding you to delete the house and ask the Lindens for a proof, was not very smart of him, cause it took your object, while the Lindens would not provide that service to you nor to him. So, yes, we can look on this from the seller's view: he has not proof, that you deleted the house. However, he has seen your effords to provide some proof, he has seen the effords of your friends ... if he still resists to refund, he is stupid in my eyes. This will take from his reputation. One house is not very much for him, but there is a group of residents now, that will never talk of him as a trustable seller. He got 2500 L$, but he lost a good portion of his reputation as a good businessman. But after all that discussion, I guess, you will not get the money back. _____________________
I script, I teach, I build, I lag (R), I crash (TM). ... But then I relog.
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Anya Yalin
AnnaMayaHouse
Join date: 27 May 2008
Posts: 150
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02-01-2010 08:52
You're always given an extra dialog to click when you want to purchase something, no?
Personally, FlamingStar, I would drop this issue. You're not going to get your money back. And if I was the creator, I wouldn't have refunded you either. There is simply no way to verify you accidentally bought the house and that you consequently deleted it. You bought it, plain and simple. I accidentally bought a wrong item in the past once too, because I was zoomed in on hair packs and didn't realize I was looking at the wrong vendor. The loss wasn't that great, but either way it certainly wouldn't have crossed my mind to blame the creator. And to be honest, I feel you were harrassing the creator by sending in your friends when you found yourself banned. There was simply nothing he could do for you. No transfer means no refund. Pretty much all stores have this policy in place. (Most will only refund if you accidentally bought the exact same item twice.) _____________________
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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02-01-2010 08:54
Phil, you know if it's possible to set something for sale the first time it's touched? It has to come up a dialogue box, where you must click "Buy" or "Pay"?  ). A low cost item would be different. I wouldn't need to believe it, as it costs so little to just go along with it.ETA: I do know that SL does strange things from time to time, so probably anything is possible. But that doesn't mean I have to believe everything that I am told and, for 2500L, most sellers really would need some sort of verification. _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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FlamingStar Ceriano
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 61
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02-01-2010 09:17
#1- Phil Deakins Quote:I don't believe it's possible to buy something on one click. Believe
it Phil it happens |
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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02-01-2010 09:18
#1- Phil Deakins Quote:I don't believe it's possible to buy something on one click. Believe it Phil it happens _____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/ |
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FlamingStar Ceriano
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 61
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02-01-2010 09:23
Well, there are a few mistakes in that story. First on your side: filing an AR was not so smart, filing a ticket would have been better. AR needs some abuse to make the Lindens look at it, but it was an agreement between you to ask them to look into your inventory. However, I really doubt they would have done. I contacted LL by phone and was told to file an AR InWorld So second: a seller, who demands Linden Lab to look up a customer's inventory does not know much about how this business works. LL does not interfere in the businesses of residents, plus, do they really have the time to work on such problems? So, the seller was wrong to ask you for LL to interfere, like he was also not very smart to ask you to return a non transferable object. Wrong he may be but is what he told me and I have notecards with his words on them. The rest is a matter of trust. He obviously does not trust you, though from your side you trusted him, deleting the object and now standing without the money and without anything for that. Demanding you to delete the house and ask the Lindens for a proof, was not very smart of him, cause it took your object, while the Lindens would not provide that service to you nor to him. So, yes, we can look on this from the seller's view: he has not proof, that you deleted the house. However, he has seen your effords to provide some proof, he has seen the effords of your friends ... if he still resists to refund, he is stupid in my eyes. This will take from his reputation. One house is not very much for him, but there is a group of residents now, that will never talk of him as a trustable seller. Yes he is stupid as his traffic is only 66 He got 2500 L$, but he lost a good portion of his reputation as a good businessman. But after all that discussion, I guess, you will not get the money back. I contacted LL by phone and was told to file AR InWorld. His traffic is only 66 and yes...he apparently needs my lindens more than me |
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FlamingStar Ceriano
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 61
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02-01-2010 09:25
It sounded pretty fishy to me when he told you to contact the Lindens to make sure it was removed from your inventory. That is rarely something that happens that quickly. And I do not even think that something like that is worth their time. I mean I sincerely doubt that the voice customer service have the tools to look into your inventory and see that a house was deleted. They would tell you to file a support ticket. Well by now if you suspect that it was a case of fraud then you can AR them. But commonly a mod/copy item is non-refundable due to the fact that it is copiable. This sounds like it is going to come down to a case of one person's word vs anothers. And unless this person has been scamming lots of others. They probably will tell you to be more careful next time. Modify No Copy No Transfer yet he asks me to return it...then when it can't be returned he told me to delete it...a DA me did as he asked...trusted...now I'm screwed out of 2500L. Wish I could post his name here |
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Marianne Little
A hopeless fool
Join date: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 645
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02-01-2010 09:31
My sympathy if you are the first one this happens to. I haven't heard of it before. Anything is possible.
I still think AR was the wrong way, a support ticket that claims you found a bug would be better. Are you using the offical LL viewer? |
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Johan Laurasia
Fully Rezzed
Join date: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
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02-01-2010 09:35
Laggy or not, purchases require 2 clicks weather it's a scripted vendor or not. Personally, I would be pretty suspicious if someone complained to me that lag caused them to make a purchase they didn't want to make. I've been in SL going on 3 1/2 years and have never "accidentally' made a purchase.
I would, however, not tell you to delete the item and contact LL like they did, that's just stupid. LL would likely never even respond to that request. More than likely, I would just refund your money and ask you to delete the house and trust that you did, but I would be suspicious that you ripped me off. I might have you teleport me to your land so I knew where you were and check to see if you rezzed the structure though. Someone in an earlier post talked about the amount being alot. In the big scheme of things, less than 10 bucks is not alot of money. Also, I don't understand why you AR'd the guy to contact LL when a support ticket would have been the proper way to go about it. The guy did nothing wrong, so you shouldn't have AR'd him. Also, houses are typically no copy, so why he had it copy, no trans is stupid too. If I were you I'd just cut my losses and forget about it because since the shop owner is unwilling to refund your money, you're likely not going to see it again. Since you're obviously dissatisfied with his service, muting, and banning you from his shop, you can however bad mouth him by word of mouth to your friends. That will ultimately cost him more than refunding you would have. _____________________
My tutes
http://www.youtube.com/johanlaurasia |
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Marianne Little
A hopeless fool
Join date: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 645
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02-01-2010 09:36
I contacted LL by phone and was told to file AR InWorld. His traffic is only 66 and yes...he apparently needs my lindens more than me Ah, I didn't see that you was told to file an AR. I was writing my reply the same time as you. |
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Brann Georgia
Spits infinitives
Join date: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 1,441
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02-01-2010 09:36
(Most will only refund if you accidentally bought the exact same item twice.) I wish Happened to me: Once I bought a men's version of a pair of (copy) pants before buying the female version. In another place I bought two of the same (copy) skirt because of lag and because I was a noob. Neither merchant even replied to my message. What did they think I needed to buy two of the same no-transfer/copy item for? (I could MAYBE see that they had doubts about the purchase of the male pants in case I like to swap m/f shapes) Neither store is still in business. Makes me wonder why. _____________________
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Dekka Raymaker
thinking very hard
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,898
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02-01-2010 09:38
Just a note, i am well experienced in SL and been here 3 years now, all I can add is that twice in the distance past I've bought an item, intending to do so, and ended up buying it twice, even though I firmly believe I've clicked once.
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Vance Adder
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 402
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02-01-2010 09:40
Well, put yourself in his shoes. What would you have done?
It's easy to say that he should have refunded you because it would have been good customer service. However... 1) you could have been lying and people don't make money by giving away free houses (not saying you were doing this, but he had know way to know for sure) 2) if he'd refunded you, you probably wouldn't have come on the forums to praise his customer service 3) you can't name names on the forums, so I don't think he really damaged his reputation Personally, I think I would have wrestled with the decision to refund you. Just think... maybe it was one of his first sales. How would you feel if someone bought your house, you got all excited, then they IM you to say "sorry, I don't actually want to use your house, can you give me my money back?" Kind of a shitty feeling. |
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Sommerland Starostin
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 138
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02-01-2010 09:45
Many vendors have a no refund policy for items bought in error. I have done that myself but thankfully not spent 2500L as I usually don't keep that much in my account at one time. I would suggest maybe you do the same.
If I were the vendor I would probably refund your money after seeing what you did to prove yourself. But you also have to understand that vendors go thru many issues with customers & they tend to get a little bugged when people do things that could've been avoided...altho lag always makes anything you're doing in SL more difficult. I would chalk it up to an expensive lesson, maybe keep less $$ in your account & be very, very, careful when clicking on anything. |
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Anya Yalin
AnnaMayaHouse
Join date: 27 May 2008
Posts: 150
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02-01-2010 09:49
Happened to me: Once I bought a men's version of a pair of (copy) pants before buying the female version. In another place I bought two of the same (copy) skirt because of lag and because I was a noob. Well if the male and female pants were slightly different, that could be a point of discussion. If the skirt however was exactly the same one, a responsible store owner should definitely have refunded you. Since you're obviously dissatisfied with his service, muting, and banning you from his shop, you can however bad mouth him by word of mouth to your friends. That will ultimately cost him more than refunding you would have. I find this a bit of a weird suggestion since you yourself admitted the creator didn't do anything wrong. Maybe I'm on the defensive about this being a creator myself, but I would consider this harrassment. A friend of mine has a business as well and was bad-mouthed by someone who claimed to have bought this and that item and supposedly didn't get it. The 'customer' wanted her money back. Well, my friend never found these supposed purchases in her transaction history. In my opinion creators have every right not to trust people making claims of 'accidental' purchases or mistakes. If a store owner does refund you, he's just being gracious. Also, I simply don't believe you can buy something with just one click, certainly not with the official viewer. I just had a look at viewer popup settings, and you simply can't turn off object payment popups. The only warning relating to purchases that you CAN turn off is the warning you get when paying a person or object in busy mode. _____________________
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Sommerland Starostin
Registered User
Join date: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 138
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02-01-2010 09:54
Also, I simply don't believe you can buy something with just one click, certainly not with the official viewer. I just had a look at viewer popup settings, and you simply can't turn off object payment popups. The only warning relating to purchases that you CAN turn off is the warning you get when paying a person or object in busy mode.[/QUOTE]
Well I have purchased items accidentally & I think its pretty common. I hear about it enough thru group chat & friends. Sometimes you think the pop-up is for something else or your clicking thru messages & click a pop-up. It happens and its not unusual. |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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02-01-2010 09:56
Hi Anya, sorry this happened to you! I've had this happen twice to me, both times with skins where I meant to get a demo.
The first time I talked to the merchant, and she of course did not refund the money, but did send me some other skins as a consolation prize! The second time I just kicked myself and let it go. I doubt the merchant was using an ebol one-click vendor. SL is often laggy, and it's easy to double-click or click otherwhere by accident. It's easy for the rest of us to say, write off that $10 learning experience - but if you can get yourself to do so, you will be happier for it. . |
