So Is "Age Verified" the new Scarlet Letter of SL ?

If the information won't be stored then how can LL allow us to put our verified age on our profiles?

In answer to the OP, I think the stigma will work the other way around. Evidence of this mechanism is evident even in this thread. Those who choose not to verify will be viewed as suspicious, illicit, perverted, and/or underage. I think the social pressure to conform to this ineffective and intrusive mandate will be intense. I've said this before in another thread, but already when I simply mention that I will not verify while chatting with residents in-game, the most common response has been "omg, you're underage?" And one person I've known almost since the day I joined SL six months ago! Yes, I'm going to try to enjoy my friendships here as long as I can, but when 90% of the places they want to go are inaccessible to me, can't enjoy mature roleplay, can't chat with my friends while they dance on poles in clubs, can't buy skin, can't visit certain clothing stores, can't avoid constant accusations of being underage because I won't verify, well, I might better just log off permanently.

I think I'll regard those who chose to "verify" the same way I regard friends who smoke: with horrified curiosity that they could make such a poor decision for themselves....and hoping it doesn't give them cause for deep regret some day.

If people are really that stuck-up, I have no desire to make their acquaintance or be on their land. I'm getting verified, and if people think that makes me a pervert and an outcast, it's just their loss.

What could be an easier way, would be for each person/user to provide their name and address (easily obtainable in any event) and the 'verifiers' could check you are on the electorial role? This can't have any more loop holes than a minor providing their parents SS/NI number along with the CC details, but it would go some way to preventing identiy theft with providing other forms of information.

Where did they say the information won't be sold? There's also the issue of not sharing information, unless you choose to do so. How if the information isn't stored, can you choose to share your information?



There's a lack of openess about this whole process, who on earth are we passing our information to? What are they doing with it? The information they are requesting is way too sensitive. There is a complete lack of clarity and I simply don't trust them.

Hahaha!

Re the OP's point. i could care less what conclusions people jump to. It's already evident that people are going to 'adult content enable' their parcels just for liability reasons. i do however think LL should stop dwelling on the more x-rated aspects of verification, and point out commercial reasons for its usefulnesss. certain kinds of business (like the world stock exchange) could benefit from only doing business with identity verified users for example.

I'm fed up with meeting up with people who from what they say it is quite clear they are under 18, and passing themselves of as adult, also worry about the ones I miss are under 18.
The SL game is for over 18s, I want under 18s out.

Please do not knock Lindon for trying to get them out.
Lets come up with ideas to get them out of all of the game not just adult sex extreme areas.

I can see the pionts made about security of our information and the worldwide opperation.

When chatting with someone I allways note if "Payment Info. Used" to at least give an idea, better than nothing.

Love,
June.

The problem is this verification plan will not get them out. A kid that can grab a cc from moms wallet can just as easily grab the ss card as well.

I am payment used currently, have been for 3 years. I am also 42 years old (God I would love to be under 18 again). I am NOT going to verify unless forced. I highly doubt I am the only one.

It will be stored for two years to provide a government mandated audit trail.


(Edited to include quote from the Tuesday meeting)

I assume you mean 42 in RL, but in SL you can be what you want so be 18, I would have no problem with that. Nearly 100% of avatars look 18 to 25 anyway. In RL I just wonder what the average age will be, take out the under 18s it it might well be a high number!

It is the sex side of things in SL that is the problem with these under 18s for the rest of us.

If everyone had to pay a subscription would it help? ( Yes you will allways get those who use anothers CC with thier knowlege or not. ) I do think Lindon should do this at least.

Best wishes
June

Well - unlike forums goers - In world a lot of people enjoy SL Sex and arent afraid to admit it. So there will be a lot of people who verify for this reason.

Theres also beena comment expressed by all the non-forums goers Ive talked to about this in world - To the effect of:

"Good, now at least I know I wont have to worry about finding out I cybered a 15 year old."

i don't know about you but that's why i wasn't too happy about the credit card requirement being dropped last June 6th. although it wasn't foolproof when it came to keeping minors off the grid, it's evident from what happened afterwards that it worked to some extent.

the difference here is that minors will still get on the grid, but so many genuine adults will have difficulty verifying that under-18s will be no easier to spot than they are now. and the way Linden Lab is touting the verification idea, anybody would think you only need it if you enjoy being tied to a rack naked while somebody bites your nipples off. not at all. identity verification is useful for all kinds of reasons, not all of them related to sex and violence.

in short, i think they should stop giving the impression that it's about content classification and little else.

I think its the downplay strategy

"its no big deal ... all responsible internet sites with 18+ material are doing it... "

LOL... I'm going to offer LL this link for my age/gender verification http://www.slcn.tv/media/Samaritan-edits-AWM_Mars.mov

or this one if they don't like waiting http://www.wba-advertising.com/interviews.html

I have no intention of providing any additional data about myself to this service via LL's provider. If people think I am a kid as a result, so be it. I have zero interest in parcels flagged as adult anyway...and as the skin makers (designers) are not included in this, I don't expect it will affect me at all tbh. One thought I did have was that animation makers might have to cordon off some of their pose offerings into separate parcels. I can see this new verification hurting those businesses quite substantially as so many people won't verify.

Yes!

But the Linden's don't want them out. If they did, then they would work at ways of verifying *everybody's* age.

It occurs to me that the Lindens might not actually be as stupid and sloppy-thinking as they appear to be. Perhaps they are really clever.
They want more respectable corporate business customers, and so they set up to divest SL of all the commercially-embarrassing sex and violence.

What do they do? The create a special class of membership that is *specifically* for people who want access to extreme violence and sex. Remember, there is absolutely no need to age-verify if you don't want access to such content.
So LL are proclaiming to the world - "We are in the business of virtual violence and sex."
All residents who voluntarily age-verify are proclaiming "We specifically want access to that sort of content".

With me so far?
-- Yeah -- I thought not!
I'm not entirely with me on this theory either.


So it's back to the "stupid and sloppy-thinking" theory.


The LL spin is that these new measures are designed to protect minors. The truth seems to be that they are intended only to provide some measure of protection for LL. But do they?

Consider this chain of events.
A minor signs up for free and falsely asserts that they are 18+. LL accept that assertion and allows them to enter SL in the guise of adults. LL knows that this totally unverified, free subscription is unsafe.
LL allows them to wander freely in PG and the 'non-Adult' parcels of Mature areas. All the time, they are encountering adults who will relate to them as if they were adults.


The *only* difference now between a PG and a 'non-Adult' Mature parcel will be...?
- A 'non-Adult' Mature parcel could potentially be surrounded on all sides by Adult Mature parcels
- A PG parcel could potentially be immediately adjacent to three (for a sim corner) or one (for a sim side) Adult parcels
- Depending on terrain and build heights, both PG and 'non-Adult' mature parcels will have clear views into Adult parcels. And that's even without any camera moving!


LL intend that minors will continue to be allowed to sign up free and unverified.

So WHEN a minor - posing as an adult - goes into a PG or 'non-Adult' parcel and is exposed to the Adult content in the immediately surrounding parcels, who will be sued?
1. The owner of the parcel the minor is allowed to be in under the TOS? - Obviously not.
2. The owner of the Adult parcel who has flagged the parcel as Adult? - Obviously not.
3. LL - Obviously. Yes. There is no one else left to sue.
(This is to ignore the fact that the minor has lied and the minor's parents/guardians have failed to educate and supervise.)

What steps will LL have taken to protect the minor from being exposed to such content?
Absolutely none, apart from asking the minor to assert on signup that they are 18+.
LL will have *absolutely no defence*, since they now acknowledge that there is a problem with minors signing up for free and unverified.
They do not propose to change that form of signup in any way.
They plan to allow free access for such signups to parcels immediately adjacent to Adult parcels.


LL consider that when age verification is implemented, that they will have protection from legal action. This implies that they consider that they are wide open to action currently.
And yet - they still allow free unverified signups to continue. For which read - The easiest possible way for minors to get access to the full current range of extreme content in SL.
Talk about reckless endangerment of just about everything you can think of - like minors, the user base, the existence of SL.


LL are in process of issuing blank cheques to litigants.
LL will either have to pull the plug or immediately ban all adult content from SL.
Whether or not the latter would be to effectively pull the plug remains to be seen.

There is one possible move -
Separate all mainland Adult content into separate continents. into which only the 'Sex and Violence' voluntarily verified resident class has access.

non americans are not afforded the same legal protections as american citizens. homeland security and other paranoid us agencies will absolutely LOVE being able to profile interesting people they encounter of the grid.
it should really scare the shit out of you.

i do not believe that ll can be sued for the simple act of some kid seeing porn. every porn company online would have been sued into bankruptcy years ago. i think the 'protect the kids' thing is diversionary.
in all fairness, its a bit glib to suggest parents can supervise their kid 24/7. they might keep the computers out of the bedrooms and out in the family areas (best idea ever), they installed some software they bought at megamart for $120, but the kid bypassed it in 15mins and looked at porn all day while playing hooky from school... kids are smart, and they are light years more advanced with computers than the average parent. you cant project all the blame onto parents. surely the greater community has a commitment to society's children to keep certain things out of view, to keep certain secrets from them and to keep them innocent for a part of their life.

Seriously I wonder what LL plan to put on all of our profiles.
I am a premium user have been for a long time now I pay LL oodles of $ a month, but I do not plan to verify. I already did that when I joined. I do not have any interest in adult content in SL never have never will have. (I can get all I want in my RL with my parter)

So how are they going to distinguish us all now?

"Premuim Unverified"?
lol!

any thoughts on this?

LL appear to believe it.
Obviously they don't believe it enough to close the doors while they implement age verification, but enough to start down that road.



In the meantime, while the doors are still wide open, anyone who is seriously interested in making money out of SL is probably considering the following:
1. Get some minors to sign up for free to SL. LL will put absolutely no barriers in their way.
2. Get those minors into sexual slavery in Gor, the whole BSDM scene, stripping in clubs, escorting, snuff-porn, extreme violence, etc. LL continues to allow free signups full access to all of SL, despite their apparent concerns to protect minors, whom they know to be signing up under their open doors policy.
3. Sue the pants off LL.

LL MUST be at fault. That MUST be the legal advice that they are currently getting.
If they were not, they wouldn't be tearing the heart out of SL with this latest move. Would they?

I think their handling of the situation is totally insane, but then I'm not LL or their lawyers. The view from inside the asylum is obviously different.


The absolute protection of lying minors from themselves is of course impossible, since any child can very easily supply a parents ID for verified signup. And OF COURSE they will do so.
If minors are not responsible for falsely asserting age, they are not responsible for falsely asserting ID. It's just a very, very attractive game to them.




Plus: (apart from a minor viewing porn in an adjacent Adult parcel with LL's blessing)
- A minor has a session on the sex-poses of someone with a non-Adult plot,
- The minor's lawyers discover that the owner (who believed they were interacting with an adult) is in some untouchable jurisdiction - or maybe the owner has no assets.
Who will the lawyers go after?
Yes, that's right!

Forget about reasonability, sanity, common sense. We're talking about lawyers.
Being paid to fight cases is great, especially if they bring publicity. Winning a case is just a bonus.



There is obviously an issue here for the entire Internet. How to restrict access to certain types of material. It's a great pity that LL is ruining it for everyone else by quickly caving in at the first sign of trouble. They are setting a precedent and raising the expectations of the intolerant.
Yes, furries, you're next.

Well I guess I will verify my age but before I do so I want to see some assurance from LL that these children will be kicked off the main grid onto the teen grid. They shouldn't be here and just allowing them to go to non mature/adult places is not enough. And where the hell are their parents, allowing them to come on SL?

Sadly you may be right, Ascabel. However we are many and if LL decided to ban furs from SL we could easily beat A Certain player to the post when it comes to hosting 3rd-party servers using licensed server software from Linden Labs or another software provider if need be.

One quick whip-round of the online furry community and you'll see us setting up our own virtual world.... if push comes to shove.

This is taken from the newest blog and raises so questions that I would also love to know the answers to:

If you meet me in SL, you may notice that I have set my group role texte to "!!!UNVERIFIED!!!"
It's right there over my head. I'm thinking of creating an attachment that floats over my head, that is a great big arrow, with some accompanying hover-text

Despite being a Premium-paying resident creating what I hope are interesting builds (see my Picks), once the current LL plan is implemented, I will be no different to a freebie resident as far as any automated land-access rules are concerned.

If I age-verify under the current LL plan, then in all honesty, I'll have to change the text to "Want to see content overtly, graphically, or explicitly sexual in nature or intensely violent".
That currently is the ONLY reason given by LL to voluntarily age-verify.

Tell people you like to blow up fluffy white bunnies with bombs.

Its more socially acceptable than liking to have sex after being spanked first.