No transfer clothing on the rise?

In the past, I've had pretty good experiences contacting the designer and asking if they'd be willing to sell it as NC/T instead. Usually I'll look around and pick out a few other things so I don't end up asking for it 3 times in a row and so that the amount I'm spending makes it worthwhile for them to bother doing it.

Recently however I've found that more and more things are sold as NT and the designer is simply not prepared to change the permissions at all . Today I picked out just under $4k worth (5 outfits) and the designer said that she wouldn't give out no copy/transfer due to "rampant theft".

I'm not upset over the fact that she didn't consider my request, that's as much her choice as it is my choice not to buy something I can't give away when I find I never wear it anymore.

The "rampant theft" reason puzzles me though. As far as I know, clothing is by far the most difficult thing to copy in SL and C/NT vs NC/T wouldn't affect that either way as far as I can tell. Am I missing something?

huh. I really haven't ran into a vendor yet, that has refused to make it transferable for me. Just sounds like a bad business decision to me. Considering how many clothing vendors there are, I'd have thought a simple request of nocopy/transferable would be reasonable. I'd think that having one or the other is safe enough to avoid 'theft'.

I think making clothes "No transfer" is really dumb. These clothes makers (I'd never called them designers) are paranoid and greed is a big part of this decision to make them no transfer.

Once they sell their wares at whatever price they want- and in most cases at over-inflated prices- it's not their business whats done with these articles. Yet, they feel they still have a say-so over these items. Ridiculous as it may sound, this is true.

Ask any clothes maker why the "no transfer" and their response, that is if they don't have written in their profiles, "Don't call me, I'm busy," their answer will be, "I don't want my "designs" resold again." Say what??? You sold them, they're no longer yours, get over it!!
You'd think they just invented that dress or that pair of shoes. Please!! You'll see the same exact stuff in other shops as well and maybe for less too.

I agree, in some cases some clothes makers will bend a bit as far as sending you a pair of modifiable pants if the ones you paid for wasn't and you asked for a pair. But as far as giving you access to transfer on a non-transfer items, good luck.

Speaking only for myself, the majority of my customers prefer to have clothes copy rather than transfer so they can keep items in different folders and just put on an entire outfit at once.

I've been asked to make an outfit NC/Trans and I have no problem doing so. It's simply good customer service.

If greed is the motivating factor for some, or they fear items being resold at higher prices (or whatever), that's their right as the creator. However, it's a bit short sighted to place all designers under the label of greedy, paranoid, or too busy to bother.

Best,
Ari

Actually i think its so everyone has to buy the exact same outfit for their alts, since everyone i know has at least one, i can see that being a very big market.

I didn't mean for the thread to turn into another C/NT vs NC/T debate. That's been covered many times over already .

I was/am simply puzzled by the "theft" implication of asking for a NC/T copy because I just don't see it.

Possibly they misunderstood what you were asking for, and thought you wanted a copy OK/Transfer OK version? Selling something "No Copy/Transfer OK" is no more linely to induce theft than "Copy OK/No Transfer". The only liability to the maker if you had a "No Copy/Transfer OK" version is that you might resell it for more than what you paid for it. And you could only do that once per copy that she sold you...

Odd.

Poor Cole, do the nasty clothes makers twist your arm behind your back to MAKE you buy stuff?

No, I thought not.

This is just a guess, but something I've kinda noticed and I'm not pointing fingers, so let's not go there either.

Some people explicitly buy transfer clothing, to resell it in thier own store (yard sale store) and have a large mark up and no one is the wiser, because you can change the name on the folder and if your store name isn't on the clothing, there's no way to tell who made it. So they resell at a profit, just selling others things.

(I'm not saying it's right or wrong either, so let's not go there.)

In all seriousness, I asked a friend who is a well-know (and very skilled) clothes creator why her stuff is all copy now.

She confirmed that it was partly because she discovered that lots of people were buying clothes in groups then swapping amongst each other 'may I borrow your party gown tonight, hon?'

and partly that it upset her to see her items (which she prices very reasonably indeed) being resold at permanent yard sales for large mark ups. She figures why should she be giving these people a profit on her hard work and encouraging them to charge people higher prices than they could get from her?

They sound like pretty reasonable reasons to me, I have to admit.

Sorry....it did seem that we got off track

I don't understand the idea of theft if a design is NC/NMod but trans unless someone is selling it as their own creation.

I have seen my designs re-done, but I don't consider that theft...just lack of imagination on the part of the other designer

If someone were to sell one of my items at a huge mark-up, my concern would be that people were being ripped off when they could purchase the original at a reasonable price. That's just bad for all creators.

Here's hoping you find someone who is willing to work with you on your transfer needs!

Best,
~Ari

Does it? I don't hear anything here that doesn't parallel real life. Friends can and do borrow clothes all the time. And you can, if you can find a buyer, sell an item for more than you bought it for. I'm guessing this is how many of the items marked new on eBay are sold. You could as easily argue that if people are willing to pay that much, she might as well be willing to charge as much.

As to the copy or transfer permission, there's nothing you can do to make everyone happy. To try and solve that problem, I make one set of each and load the vendor up with both kinds, hoping that the buyer will pick the one that best suits them. I still get an occassional IM from someone who didn't notice that the version they wanted was available, though.

I don't know nothing about nothing but I will not buy clothes that don't have copy/mod permissions. I could care less about transfer since I will not be reselling them. It is more important to me to be able to hem the skirts up and to change the colors to make different outfits.

I could be wrong, but I do not think it is hard to steal clothing in SL. At least, that is the impression I get from the billions of posts I have seen about how easy it is and how it's rampant, etc.

That aside, I absolutely refuse to by anything at all in SL that I cannot copy, clothing or otherwise. Being able to transfer something has no importance whatsoever to me, whereas the number of times I have permanently lost no-copy items due to an SL bug is not something I am willing to tolerate any longer.

Theres so many reasons to make things no transfer that are benificial to the customer !! For example when an item is no transfer and you happen to " lose it" or sl is messed up and you don't get your item , its very easy for the designer to just give you another copy, without them having to worry if you actually lost it or just simply sold it or gave it away.

My hair is sold no transfer for that reason as well as the fact that prim hair needs so much adjustment that people are always needing to make back up copies or call on me for another copy since they botched one up. Also since I put several sizes in a box and they are modify , if they were transfer someone could keep one size and give the other size to a friend that can mod it and boom.. 2 for one special.. or more !

I think that you will find when creator puts a bunch of extra colors in a pack of clothing, or puts the items on different layers as a bonus.. there not going to make it transferable for the simple fact that mulitple people would be able to use it at the same time.

Re: Designers that don't want their items resold -- I have heard stories of clothing makers have had their boxes placed at yard sales and then filled with freebie content from the library -- renamed to decieve buyers into thinking they are getting a deal on a resale from a popular store. By having their items no trans , when ppl see those boxes at crooked yard sales they will know there's no way it could be the actual content since its sold no trans.

Anyway I think theres so many perks to having no trans items, being able to get another copy from most designers if you lose the item or it doesnt show up in your inventory... being able to make outfits and use certain pieces over and over in different ones.

I'll go off-track all the time , but with the actual C/NT vs NC/T people feel strongly about their preference so it derails fairly quickly. (Even though NC/T keeps the asset server happy so it's obviously the way to go! )

A few other people mentioned reselling and I did consider that before posting , but if you normally sells C/NT, and someone has to actually seek you out to get one single NC/T copy, then I think that would significantly limit any risk of reselling since it would easy to figure out.
There's always the option as charging a little fee for the effort to go ahead and change the permissions on a few dozen items. If she wanted $1-2k extra to make them transfer that pretty much guarantees that reselling isn't much of a realistic/economic option.

If something costs L$ 300 I don't care either way, but when it's L$ 2k for a single dress I personally want to know that I can give it away to an alt or a friend if it ever comes to that. Transfer isn't about reselling, it's about being able to give it away.
Everything was no mod as well, in fact after checking I don't have a single actual outfit that's no transfer *and* mod.

Textures generally are easy to copy, but clothing only ever really exists as part of a baked texture. I guess someone could probably use that to create a derivative outfit as Arikinui pointed out, but I don't think they can get a pixel-by-pixel perfect copy, and not in a way that would actually pay off with the effort put in. Transfer vs no-transfer doesn't make much of a difference in this case though.

You gave me a NC/T copy of a collar after I asked (now 5 months back) and I still remember how happy I was that you were willing to do it. There's perks for humouring "pesky" customers asking for things too .

(Edited to rephrase certain things)

Except with the asset server being unhappy and eating items whenever it feels like it, who is going to risk their no copy clothes disappear without trace when they try to transfer it? Not to mention with the copy/no transfer at least even if your only copy disappears thanks to garbage collecting going awry again, it's still no issue getting a replacement from the original maker...

I was hoping that would come off as obviously joking giving the context .

Once 30 days pass you're out of luck getting a replacement anyway since a lot of people don't keep track of their transactions.

I wish there were more transfer items so I could buy some darn Christmas gifts I don't want copy, I want transfer so I can give my friends clothes or jewelry...and my fiance something that he would actually like! It seems incredibly odd to me.

Ahh sorry, heading for the bed and guess just too sleepy at this point to get it

I think people do keep backups of the transaction data for longer than what SL page saves but then can only speak for myself really.. still, with these who do it's easier if the item is copyable rather than transfer-enabled ^^;;

In most cases you'll be able to contact the seller and ask if it's possible to buy the item as a gift. You won't actually be the one who gives it to them that way, but at least it's better than giving someone the money and having them buy it .

I wasn't lumping all clothes makers together when I wrote my previous post. I know there are some who are cool and do help customers out.

With this said I want to add, do you really believe that the majority of clothes makers use no transfer so others won't be ripped off by those who buy and resell those same items?
There may be a few but for the most part it has absolutely nothing, not-a-thing to do with this. This is just a weak excuse they tend to use.

Example: When I asked one clothes maker of a all Men store why the no transfer, he stated he didn't want "...his designs re-sold for 1L in a yard sale somewhere." It didn't matter and it doesn't matter if the person re-selling sells these items for less or not.

While I don't think someone will pay an amount for an item then right away turn around and re-sell it for less, I do know many times people buy clothes then don't wear them because now they don't feel like they look good in them or for whatever reason.

They have lots of items they don't use or wear and they'll sell stuff at a yard sale. For the most part, yard sales have items for way less then shops. They'll lighten their inventories while making a few dollars and those who buy do so because they feel the price is right, if not they wouldn't buy anything. So everyone comes out happy, except of course the original clothes makers.

And if by chance someone does re-sell for more, so what? People aren't being forced to buy, especially clothes they know are being resold, whether they know it or not. They see a high price, they won't buy, plain and simple.

Plus, if someone were to buy stacks of clothes from someone else and then tried to resell these same items somewhere else, again so what? The clothes maker who this person just paid, was just handed a very good sale as he sold many items for the price he asked for. So why should the clothes maker care what happens to those clothes now? He got his, many times over.

The thing is in most cases, clothes makers feel they should of made more money. OK? More money. Isn't satisfied with just having sold a stack of clothes, he still wanted more and feels entilted to more. This is the main reason for no transfer and not because they don't want others ripped off. They could care less, be realistic.

And again, I'm not lumping all clothes makers together, but most.

This might not be seen as a favorable view but I'll state what I see and have experienced. Simple enuff!

Well, if you already bought the NT version and afterwards ask for a tradeable copy, that's basically asking for two outfits for the price of one.

I'm personally cursing each time I happen to buy clothes with NC/T permissions. I once ended up buying the same outfit four times, since I wanted to wear it with 3 different skin colors and hairstyles (which I change as often as my clothes) and needed an additional copy of the included boots to combine them with another outfit. I paid a much higher price for it and I'm still not able to use pieces of it for other saved combinations.

I found that C/NT on all clothes, skins, avatar attachments and complete avatars works for the majority of customers. Especially when it comes to prim attachments, which are often re-textured, re-colored, changed in size and position or linked to other prim objects - a backup copy is badly needed there, and I wouldn't want such an individualized piece to be resold with my name shown as creator. If an XCite representative would see one of my demon tails for sale with a pair of XCite buttocks linked to it, they could get quite a wrong impression.

IMs like "I need it as a present for someone" are pretty rare (rare enough that I can trade a free copy to the recipient in such cases), whereas requests like "Hi, I fear I broke my HUD" or "Can I get another copy, a tad darker" are very common. Copyable appearance items are a lot less work, trouble and risk for me as well as less frustration for the customer. They bought it once, I have the purchase on my records, so they can request 30 new copies over the next 2 years if needed - I know that they can't trade the additional sets to their friends or resell them with a nice profit. I even trade complete avatars of a different color to customers who bought only one color version, if they want to combine the parts (horns in color option 1, wings in color 2 etc.).

Then more often than not, that's looked upon as a freebie and people raise a ruckus seeing it full price in a store if that was repeated.



Go to a yard sale store (there are quite a few) and get back to me.



Wrong, if it's quality work that someone produces and uses it as a cheaper item to benefit others, then someone sees it somewhere else, they will buy. But hey... if it's so what for them... So what for you who wants transfers? Make your own clothes! So what right?



Then don't buy and quit whining... so what right?



Lovely of you to put yourself in shoes you know nothing about. But of course, since you are posting with an alt.... not like we can tell who you really are and what your ulterior motives are, right?

I feel the same way. If she had to specifically ask for no copy/transfer items, what's the problem with obliging her, even for a nominal fee? In the end it's up to the designer, or if you prefer, it's up to the customer whether or not they want to shop there again. Fortunately, there's no real shortage of clothing shops in SL.