Are we really.................

the welcoming community everyone says we are?

I'm not completely convinced we are. Just a bit ago I answered a really simple question about sharing textures with another avi in SL. Well, it was simple for me and probably a lot of others here, at least. I'm not going to tell which thread nor the replies but it was recently posted (time right now is 6:26 pm SL time 3/31/07). The original poster asked how to allow a partner in building use the of and the ability to use textures uploaded by the OP for use in a mutual project or build. It took me about 2 minutes to outline a simple answer. And the only other "answer" was a referral the knowledge base. It had to take more time to search the knowledge base, find the relevant answer, copy and come back and paste it in a response than to simple answer the question. The way I see it is that some here find it necessary to point out that questions are already answered somewhere else rather than answer directly.

Yes some questions are quite involved and cannot be answered easily.....those questions can and should be referred to other places for details. But the ones that can be answered so easily and are referred to "other" places is sort of like telling someone "look, you idiot, this question has been answered a million times....go look it up".

Is that the way we want to present ourselves to the new people coming in who have simple, honest questions? It's not the way I want to be seen.

Sometimes I provide answers, sometimes I provide links, sometimes it's both.
Giving a link to the knowledgebase or the wiki isn't necessarily being rude, it reminds people that they are there and also points new users who may not know of their existence in the right direction. The KB and wiki can also be browsed for further answers to unrelated questions, giving the OP extra resources to continue in SL without relying on someone answering every question they might have.

Then again, some forums I use have a :google: smiley that makes it clear when you think someone is being an idiot

PS, there was probably a lack of other answers because it was a simple question and you had answered it. There's pretty much only one way to share textures.

Good point. To be honest and I know I am going to get slammed for this but I have been into computers since the Apple ][e (Shows age, bad idea) and you see this attitude alot not just in SL but anywhere on the net where there are groups of people. Its really bad among the coding communities. Some people like to think they are smarter then everyone else and the way they attempt to prove this and to beat their chest and show it is to make somebody asking what may be a simple question to people who have been around the block a few times look and feel dumb. Its a ego thing I guess.

To put it simple, I agree.... Its time to go back to that 70's commercial... and we all sing along....

"I'd like to buy the world a Coke and sing in harmony!....."

They are out there. Telling you to hit the search for some old dead thread. Telling you to get out in a sandbox and figure out how to twist your own friggin torus. Its what THEY had to do! And if they had to walk ten miles to school in a raging blizzard wearing only a lacey thong and a hardhat, well SO SHOULD YOU! Pfffft

it was 20 miles... and 20 FEET of snow! and we were 12 children.. and only ONE SHOE between us. So we had to take turns going to school.. and we had to HOP! UPHILL! BOTH WAYS!

Ahem.

I think I generally prefer to post the help, rather than just a link.. but sometimes a link is more appropriate. Especially in places like Scripting tips.. where posting a link to the wiki can be more like "leaving a clue" without ruining all the fun of discovery.

I dunno. I think I prefer to leave "complete answers" unless the topic really has been explained somewhere else better than I could.

You from Arkansas? LOL

The usual reason for referrals to the Knowledge Base is not to avoid answering the question, but to show the person that the Knowledge Base exists and that they might in future find other useful information there.

I don't suppose it occured to anyone that those of us that do provide links are doing so to teach people that there ARE some resources - not nearly enough, true - but it is always best to start with a search of the resources so you don't wait however long for an answer when is one is sitting right there. For example: how to use Flexi settings pops up all the time. There is a great page in the knowledgebase that is going answer not just the basic question that the user has, but the next 5 questions they will have after getting their first question answere, and then give that user links to several subjects related to Flexi. It's also the same reason we have stickies at the tops of forums, to provide resources to answer the most common questions.

I am, but we didn't have shoes. We were considered rich if we could afford to tie newspapers around our feet. And it wasn't just hopping up hill.. it was the trick of avoiding the huge trees and the giant mosquitoes that was the real drag. And stepping in the cow flops from time to time....

But I digress. I usually respond with what I know or manage to look up, often providing the link as further weight to what I said. I found that was the way I best learned, so, it might help others too.

I can surely agree to that method. Answer the simple easy to tell questions and link to more detailed information..........that is by far the most help anyone can provide. But my point is a link to something that is simple and quickly answered without anything else is just not being helpful to the person asking the question. And I know some questions are so repetitious and in some cases so obvious......but an answer would be nice. I remember when I could not even figure out how to TP somewhere........and going to the knowledge base was just something I would never think of doing. I'm sure it was in my orientation......but so much was there and it escaped me. Thankfully, someone with the patience I needed helped me. That's all I wanted to say with my thread.........help the new people as much as you can.........don't make them out as dummies.

And I'm from Arkansas too...................but I only had to walk 12 miles in 1 foot of snow, barefoot, up hill, both ways. I was lucky.........my school was almost across the gravel road.................LOL

By pointing out that those resources exist, you nudge the person to hopefully try and help themselves first the next time around, and they'll still have the option to ask for help if they can't find it on their own.

By the same token, it probably took the OP more time to type their question out than if they had tried to search for it on their own, and infinitely more time having to wait for someone to respond (I don't know what the thread is BTW).

A practical example: sometimes I'll spend well over half an hour on a help request talking the person through all the steps one by one, and it's very helpful to them, but they also don't really learn anything and tend to IM me personally with every other question they have in days to come. It's not wrong of them, but it does make them rather dependant.

Other times I'll just refer them to the knowledge base with the proper search term and let them go through the steps on their own, suggesting they keep the request open in case they run into trouble. Or some time after, I'll send them an IM asking if they managed to figure it out fine and if they had any more questions if I remember and it's not too swamped. If they couldn't figure it out, I really don't mind going through it step by step, but when I get a "I didn't look, why can't you just tell me/do it for me?" I'm not wasting my time.

I actually did walk 3 miles to school each way, in deep snow in the winter, when I was in first grade. The one room schoolhouse had no plumbing - we had "cloakrooms." The school was heated with a woodstove. The desks were the old-fashioned bolted-to-the-floor kind with inkwell holes in the tops. Each row was a different grade and discipline was quite strong.

I know you probably think I'm lying, but no, it's true. I had an odd upbringing that has more in common with 100 years ago than now.

/me opens DVD burner and tosses in another log.

Style and attitude of the answer has to count for something... =D

I get a lot of non-particle related questions... I'd have zero time for anything else if I tried to field them all, and often cop-out with something like:

"I'd love to help you with (whatever), but it's really not my area of expertise... I have seen several examples of (whatever) in the scripting library, and they're not too hard to find... (and better documented and explained than I could make them!). If you have trouble finding them I'd be happy to help..."

I like helping help folks with particles, but have put a lot of effort into providing the ability for them to learn at their own pace.

I'm very happy to help folks on their journey to "particle self-sufficiency" providing they've got the initiative to dig in a bit before calling for help.

How someone asks for help counts can be very telling...

If it sounds like of someone trying to get me to code up something unique and complicated for them ... so they can run off and sell the result with minimal effort on their own, they get a friendly but more insistent RTFM like: "You'll find lots of helpful documentation here, and here related to your project... if you have questions after you've experimented with the basics I'd be happy to try to clarify or give you some pointers."

Granted, I'm not usually in the welcome area, most of the visitors and people seeking help that I run into have some grasp of SL's basics already.

All I can say is THANK YOU! to all the mentors, greeters and helpful folks that do make the effort to introduce newbies to SL, there are too few of you and you're under appreciated!

hehe no we aren't that welcoming in many cases. There are some people who obviously cant be bothered to learn and want you to tell them everything which is actualy impossible, but I have seen a lot of people torn to shreds because of things which are actualy pretty insignificant. When that happens they often get a chat from me and an answer to their question and a "sorry not everyone is like that people over time get jaded and lack patience in the first place"

On the other hand I just banned a person with 5 alts who they were lining up to use my money tree. When the main account (was obvious which one was main and not ..) contacted me about it I explained to them I didn't mind them using the tree that is what it is there for but I can't afford and neither can anyone else to pay for 5 accounts from one person to use a money tree. I explained that they are taking from others and that the lindens in the tree are mine and no their aren't free or anything. The next day I got an im after they read my response there was no other words in it then a bunch of not nice names they were calling me. I almost tore the tree down right then and there and took the ban off and say here now you and your horde of alts can come back but the tree is gone for you and everyone else. So I try hard to help people and then some guy kicks me in the face for doing nice things. I was going to put up a camping spot for 2-3 hours per day that paid 5 lindens per 10 minutes or something like that just to help one or two individuals out as a money earner. I now changed my mind because some azzhat will come along and curse me out likely when take the spot away after the 2 or 3 hours is up for that day

I think you are actually doing people a disservice when you encourage them to be lazy and rely on other people to find answers for them, instead of giving them the resources where they can find the answers for themselves.

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you will feed him for a lifetime".

There are too many lazy people in SL wandering around whinning that they dont know how to build or do anything. I take lots of them to the Ivory Tower of Primatives and explain it to them. A few stay and take the tutorials, most don't.



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Yeah, I know there are lots of funny puns made out of that quote. My favorite is:

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day.”—OldFox

But it doesnt diminish the wisdom in the original quote.

I appreciate when people at least TRY at first to find things on their own. That makes it easier to figure out what they actually don't understand. But permanoobs are that way for this very reason.

To be fair, there's a lot of things about building that the Ivory Tower doesn't teach. Before referring someone you always have to make sure it does actually answer the specific question they were really asking - I can see someone getting frustrated if referred to a place that misses it.

Heh, anyone that referrs someone to the Ivory Tower in error was probably either asked a misleading question or is unable to answer the question.

Hard to guard against situations like that.

--
give a man a fire and he's warm for the rest of the night.
set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

I refer several people a week to the Ivory Tower, and many to the Particle Lab as well. Very few people ever seem to go, even when provided with landmarks and me gushing about how helpful and cool these places are.

=) Thanks for the referrals! Many may not follow through and visit immediately, but more and more are showing up every day.

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Recently added 'free sample templates': candleflame, rain, snow, chain

what baffle me is for example in the example of the flexi, the flexi prims are using what, 4 values to set them up, yet peoples ask over and over and over how to make them. Didn't struck them that they could experiment a bit? I mean it isn't like flexi prims will bite you right?

And sending someone to the "search" has nothing about ego, but the person that ask should understand:
-A He isn't the only person asking for questions and as humans we have a limited time/patience to dedicate to it.
-B It isn't written "teacher" on one's forehead, and some older players might be busy or uninterested in the joys of teaching.
-C It gives the feeling the person isn't willing to search himself and would rather send someone else do it for him.
-D Nobody "deserve" first class service, you might get it if the peoples you talk to are feeling like they want to help you, but they might not, and it is perfectly in their right to do so.

I actually believe the best way to learn things is to live them yourself (challenge, problem solving, difficulty) rather than getting them told to you.

Could part of the problem be the fact that the forum search sucks so much? Search for a three letter acronym and it tells you the search term is too short. OK, I'll give them that, small search terms can return too many records. Annoying but understandable. But why is it that when I search for something like llGiveInventory it complains that the search term is too long. What the?? Why on earth are they restricting the max length of searches? And on top of that the search also doesn't pay any attention to quoted phrases. Even when I know I've read a post before, but didn't keep a link to it, I've found it extremely hard to find anything in these forums. So people make their own post to ask again, and the forums get more and more clogged up with the same old stuff, and the people who answer the stuff get more annoyed at seeing the same questions.... round and round we go.

Well, no - the Ivory Tower will tell you how to make prims into lots of different shapes, but it won't tell you how to make them gothic or futuristic or sleek or florid or organic or minimalist or imposing or...