Land and the price of it.

I think you're probably right, but I would love to see a spreadsheet that shows the average price of land per sq. meter over the entire time.. Month over month, year over year.. Would be an interesting thing to see.

zk

He's right, though.

The entry price to have a fun grid experience is very, very high, and land traders add very little (arguably: no) value.

Essentially selling the future as users reject the cost of being on the grid, for... what?

Just to line the pockets of a minority of users before they simply shrug it off and leave. The grid is anything but a free market.

Here's some (minor) data for entire Sim prices per meter (for what they're auctioned off as):

12.68 25-Feb
11.31 26-Feb
12.35 27-Feb
11.39 28-Feb
12.73 01-Mar
12.32 02-Mar
11.71 03-Mar
12.33 04-Mar
13.46 05-Mar
12.23 06-Mar
12.41 09-Mar
12.88 10-Mar
11.51 11-Mar
12.58 12-Mar
12.08 13-Mar
11.32 14-Mar
12.42 15-Mar
12.57 16-Mar
9.09 18-Mar <-- This is when the 40+~ Sims were auctioned
8.92 19-Mar
11.2 20-Mar
10.3 22-Mar
11.26 24-Mar
11.01 25-Mar
12.42 28-Mar
11.7 29-Mar

I think back in Oct. it was around 6$L/meter?

The first class are the Flippers / Land Sharks, they search the land sales constantly until a piece of mainland goes for sale at .1$L /meter less than the lowest priced listing. They flock in and buy the land. They then resale the land for as much as they think they can get for it.

The second class are the Land Investors / Speculators, they tend to go for Linden roadside land / protected land, waterfront locations, and so forth. They have a higher profit margin but hold the land a lot longer than a flipper.

The third class are Spliters, they buy larger and more expensive parcels, that the rest of us can't afford, and chop them into 4096 or smaller parcels (while taking in some profits).

This isn't much different than RL. For example, in RL I rehab and buy distressed properties (part time). Every place we went to that was in this class was sold or had 5+ offers on it the day after it was listed (the 5+ offers then went into a bidding war until the highest offer won).

What I'm saying is people are like ants getting sugar, everyone is swarming in trying to get a piece.

the point is, mainland parcels are being sold for stupidly high prices.

today i was looking around and ive seen 512sq/m parcels being sold for a few hundred thousand. yet a year ago, you could get a 1024sq/m parcel for 3,000L$ tops.

Personally I don't have a problem spending $20 US for a plot of land....it just needs to be a heck of a lot bigger than 512 sqm

And 3 years ago you couldn't get a 1024m snow property for less than 18k.

Its all a cycle.

Yeah. I'd like to see that too. I was looking through land prices the other day and found it strange to be thinking "OMG L$5000 is so cheap!" for a flat, square, unprotected 512m2 parcel in the most soulless sim when this time last year it would've cost about L$2000. L$5000-6000 was a price range more reserved for 512 parcels with a protected waterfront side. L$4000-ish for roadside.

Mainland prices haven't been the same since LL announced the private sim price increases last October.

Before I drift too far off-topic, I just want the OP to know that you don't need a premium account to 'own' land on a private estate. One of his comments seemed to indicate that.

I probably paid over the odds for my land, but then I'm not chasing profit so I don't mind. I wanted a nice little plot to build a nice little house on to fill with purple and that's what I got. What I'm saying is, unless its ridiculously high (and they can't all be) or you are wanting to flip/flop for a profit, are land prices really that big a problem?

I bought my first land back in 2004 and have added a bit to it since. Neighbouring plots have changed hands several times and instead of beautiful gardens I now have glass block houses. So I thought I may buy elsewhere. Found a nice plot which was approx 1600 sq metres, and thought the price was 42,500 which was doable. When I looked again, I saw that it was 420,000L which is completely over the top I think.

The other thing i hate is seeing a plot for sale on the map and flying to it, only to find its for sale for 999999999L. What is the point of doing that?

So I will stay where I am. I feel sorry for new members now that first land has finished. Fewer and fewer will bother to become a member I would think.

My only problem with private islands is you don't know how stable the owners are. Here is an actual event that happened recently (last week). A friend of mine rent land on a private island and rented a store there also. Well, one day, she logged in to find her house gone and her stuff in her inventory. It wasn't just her, it was everyone. The owner cleared out everything because he said the island had to much traffic load. So, a lot of people left and a few stayed. The owner was re-putting houses down. So, I talked my friend into leaving. Well, because she left, the owner sent her an IM saying that he is cancelling her lease on the store and giving her a refund. He stated that he is investing in a friend's venture. Well, a week later (last week), the owner did it again to the people who stayed. This time, the island was just a campground and he told his remaining renters he put the island up for sale (again without prior notice). So, my friend was glad she took my advice.

This could happen to anyone, so I'll take my chances with Linden Lab.

I've seen worse.

I think a lot of people do that to say that they're open to the idea of selling but want to haggle about the price or check out the potential buyer first.

There is a 256 sq m corner lot on my sim for $51,200L. So, I've seen worse.

It used to be quite common practice for someone to put the last avaiable parcel in a region up for sale for some obscene price. It would take awhile but they would usually get that price too if someone in the region was desperate for prims.

Another common one is the obscene price to get extra advertising for the plot by putting thier name up high on the list. They have no intention of selling. Just getting thier name out there. I was happy to see however that this one has started backfiring on folks since they tick off so many people.

Hi Ike, this is a terrible story and I'm very sorry for your friend! I would like to say that for the most part, as far as I can tell, island owners are very responsible and care for their tenants very well. I know, of course, that there are exceptions, as there will always be, but all the same, I've had very positive experience renting. Note that I also own land on the mainland, and have bought plots at both low and high prices. Depends on what you're looking for. On the whole, though, the OP was complaining about island owners...how do you think they feel now that three new continents are up for grabs? My rental landlord, who is conscientious and protective of his tenants, and who can guarantee that no ad farms, sex shops, or casinos will pop up next door, is having a hard time renting out his vacant plots now. He's LOSING money, not making it, currently.

The OP asked "who do you think you are, island owners" etc... my landlord has (or had, until this new continent addition) a vision of a newbie friendly, "utopia" where every one was free to build as they wanted, play the game as they wanted, and learn as they wanted, and could live in a vibrant happy community while doing so. Too bad he's so busy working with complainers that he can't make his dream a reality...

Thank you for finally posting what I was thinking as I read through this thread, wondering why someone didnt explain that out sooner. (Rest of post to OP)

These people are often 100% sure their land wont get sold, its frustrating to look for land when they are set up like this yes, but that is *Not* the price of land these days. I've got a lot of land on one particular sim that has a large plot in one corner that has been marked at 900,000L for as long as I have owned land there. At first I thought it was 90k and almost considered it since the land is surrounded by waterways etc, but then I squinted and counted zeros.

You can easily find 512sqm for around 6k and honestly, lets be realistic? How much is an outfit, pair of shoes, a house? Wouldnt you expect land to cost more than those things? The reason you see millions of for sale signs is because of all the fantastic and wonderful 16sqm ads, people that arent really selling their land etc. If we could weed that crap out you would probably not be so overwhelmed with the thought of how 'stupid' and out of control it all is. Geesh, imagine the complaintents post if they had seen it at 20L per sqm (I have to admit to unloading quite the chunk of land when that hit...call me stupid now for my initial investments )

As for calling renters stupid...good grief, shoot yourself in the foot with half the crowd why duncha? Private sims offer a much nicer enviornment (most of the time) than mainland and work hard to do so. Not all of them charge an initial amount & tier, some just charge tier (or rent) and at a cost that is no where near what it should be! I cant tell you how many people I've seen with islands that, when I do the math on their rentals, are not making enough to even cover their own tier. Most probably because they live on the sim as well or just wanted to do it to enjoy it with friends. So, your suggestion is that they let you rent there for free? Please, go through with your idea of getting a sim and starting your own, I will come rent for you and open up more space on my own sim to help me cover my costs (which I wont be doing this month anyway)

Doing rentals are risky. In the last month I saw a huge drop in rentals purely because a lot of people were unable to buy lindens! I had 3 tenants IM me that they were having to move out because they either couldnt purchase lindens and were fed up with the bugs or one that had to log in at a friends because he couldnt get into SL at home. As mentioned before, a lot of landlords end up spending a lot of time teaching their residents a lot of functions within SL. I've contemplated coming up with detailed notecards for people just because of the amount of time I spend helping people, hoping it helps them more.

So while you sit there, not even here past last month, and call people stupid for enjoying SL the way its been for quite some time, the rest of us will go back into world and keep on keepin' on until our sims are yanked away from us. I enjoy this part of the game, getting to meet people from my rentals, helping them find a spot to call home without having to fork over any money to buy it and pay tier too.

For the record, my apartments cost $4.82 a month if you purchase the lindens. Its possibly more space in each apartment than a 512 plot and more prims to decorate with. True you dont get the land, but you get a nice enviornment to call home and more prims for less than premium costs. Does that make my renters stupid? I will just assume your offensive name calling was directed elsewhere.

You might do better to find something using search, than looking at the millions of yellow signs. Look at the features of search under Land and find those cheaper plots. Or, enjoy your new sim.

How is there such a high demand for land? according to the economic stats page there is currently 20,115,712 sqm. for sale right now...sure seems like there is way more supply than demand, so why aren't the prices going down?

Because at least 10,349,093 sqm of that is in 16sqm ad plots.


My actual guess is that land is purchased and put up for sale each day, people are buying, people are selling, its changing hands all the time. People attempt to create a club or casino or nude this that or the other, try for a while and then sell. I dunno, honestly...but good grief that is a huge number of land. Anyone know exactly how much mainland is IN SL? Oh, and does that number include private estates or just mainland?

http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy-graphs.php

It looks outdated, but several hundred thousand square meters. Probably pushing a million these days given all the new auctions.

OK so you want a sim owner to charge you less than what they are charged.. not a problem I'm here to help you out.

I will buy a sim, and sell all or any size peice to you for HALF my costs, and charge you a tier that is about 25% more than I pay in tier so I can recoup some of my lost 837.50 USD

If you where to buy the whole island I would sell it to you for $837.50 and your tier would be $400 USD a month if you sold your land before the third tier fee, you will have effectively paid less for land than I did.

Hope this helps, its your opportunity!