Land and the price of it.

I'm quite a newborn, so forgive me if someone, somewhere allready has this question.

I was browsing lands ingame, and it made me wonder... what you people selling them are thinking?!?

I mean, have you taken a look on land prices and tiers and rental prices lately? They are of the roof. Seriously. The most outrageous was a 512 sqm parcel for 40k, and I don't find all the 1 L$ sales ads funny either.

Some private sims are thinking I will be paying their costs and their profit too. Ok, you don't have to be a premium to "buy" land there... But they asking for a tier cost anyway. Some don't - but they ask for a weekly rental well above the cost of the tier, your premium acc and some..

That way you basicaly BUY THE SERVER FOR THEM. You might as well buy one for yourself - a low lag, brand new "class 5" server.

And in the meantime, the whole map is bristling in yellow and dollar signs if I turn on the land sales radio button... I do not know if it is a "land maffia" or just a few men who buy every auction to get prices up by reselling... But thank you for Lindens cancel on the "first land" and congrats on your monthly tier. i hope you'll starve to death with a few continent in an online game in your pockets - unsold, unrented.

So what's wrong? If you buy an island to rent it out you want to make a profit, otherwise why buy the island? Do you think an island owner should be subsidising his tennents?

And as for "You might as well buy one for yourself". Well, if you have that sort of money to put into the game and if that's what you want to do, then go ahead. Most of us renters just want enough space for a house and garden and enough prims to build. Seems to me you have some pretty unrealistic expectations.

Just thinking aloud, that's all.

Suzi

Land is cheaper than it was and you could set yourself up in a very nice place for less than the cost of a Playstation game - I don't see what the problem is!

hmm, still waiting for the question.

Did you bother to read his whole post?

He is complaining about the land prices, which leads him to talk about renting or buying a sim. Had not the land prices been ridiculous, then he wouldn't be talking about renting or buying a sim.

His question was "What are these people thinking, selling land at ridiculous prices"

Not much of a question, but you can see he is frustrated and is looking for some comments/empathy from residents.

The problem is, not everyone has the sort of money that would buy them a playstation game, or a decent amount of land in Second Life. Land is for the most part the basis of being in Second Life, and it is priced out of reach of quite a few who would otherwise love to dig in and make a home here.

You are forgiven.

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Um, yeah. Just like the restaurant charges you a premium on the food they serve you so they cover their costs and make a profit too. Seems pretty fair to me, since they are risking their investment capital and putting a lot of time and effort into things to make a few bucks.

My suggestion is shop around until you find the plot you think is worth the price. If you can't find it anywhere, just enjoy all the pretty open sims and keep your furniture in your inventory.

You want a question? Ok here is one... Why are all those lands on the mainland unsold? Could it be becouse they are still overpriced? Even if they were more expensive...

I want to understand the way the mainland land sales are working. There are full island "On Maintainence" owned by Governor Linden. So there is no need for more land for the residents it seams - and yes there are quite a lot of land for sale from small parcels with no acces, surrounded by skyscapers to quarter of a sim, empty. Still, as I see it its cheaper now to get four people and start a server, dividing the cost. If you are stupid enough to pay someone elses profit then be it - your problem not mine. I'll start up one, just to see how many of you are out there...

Let's not be so quick to call a whole LOT of people, myself included, who have made calculated and reasoned decisions to rent on private islands, stupid. I was stepping up to the plate for you up until that post. Now you're on your own.

Starbucks is charging how much for a cup of coffee? Screw them and the stupid people who go there. I'm starting my own coffee franchise! Who's with me?

The butcher want's how much for a pound of beef? Screw him, I'm going to buy a cow and put her in the back yard. Hell I think I'll milk her too...can't stand the price of milk these days.

stupid butcher

EDIT
Actually, sorry Mr. butcher, you are not stupid, your customers are.

I had a whine about this a few months back. After all is said and done, market forces will dictate the pricing of land in much the same way as in RL as with supply and demand. Land prices will fall as they did at the peak of the last land pricing boom. Be patient and keep observing the market trend, if you get in at the right time you can save alot of money.

512's average about 6k. thats 20 USD


if you consider that to be 'expensive' perhaps you should not own land right now...

agreed, I paid almost $2000 for my computer, Ipay $40/month for my ISP and $10/month for my LL membership. Now how can I bark at a one time fee of $20 for a 512 (tier included in membership which pays me a stipend to offset it a bit) to own some land. Let's get things into perspective here. Sheesh

You both getting it wrong. Ray you are very welcome to start a business, and Sly if you want to smell fertiliser, be my guest.
In RL there are jobs which requires knowledge you don't posess, and/or don't want to do - like milkin' a cow at 0400 or cut it up to pieces.

What about SL? Your fingers getting tired? C'mon...

Curtis: Thanks.

Zaphod: Each for his own. I was talkin' about sims, but not ALL sims. What bothers me is that there are places which are basicaly moneysinks. If you found a place to live on, good for you. As I said, I'm new here and I got frustrated by teleporting around for three days from parcel to parcel.

Lets put it on the table
1) We do NOT sell land to residents, Only tier.
2) Our Tier is 29.00 - 30.00 for 4096 vs 25.00 from the Lindens
3) Tier on 5K of land is an extra 7.00 US a month, NOT an increase to a 8192 tier.
same applies for all tiers. basically 500Ls per week per 1024 land.

so Yes me and My sis charge slightly higher on Tiers, although we ALSO set aside at least 5k of of unrented land as buffers between properties and try to have some interesting geograpghy.

4) We give out alot of free items, from prefabs to kiss matts and other items we make.
5) We offer a free 20 prim store on a commercial SIM.
6) We ensure a casino or mall doesnt pop up next door.
7) We try to keep rules at the minimum and DO encourage our residents to IM us if they preceive a problem. 3/4 of teh time, these 'Problems' are worked out to every ones benefit.

Our initial Investment took 13 months to pay us back, but then again we didnt really do it for the monry, we did it cause we just like building and having fun in SL.

So people who think that making 5-10 dollars a month of a parcel of land is outrageous, you need to think of our service as being more than offering Land, becaue it truly is,
Heck I cant even count the number of hours I have spent helping a resident build a submerged Dungeon, deploy a house, create a group, help their partners have access rights, Make a tv work, deploy a security device, and so on.
But you know what, I had fun doing so and gladly look out for the 40 or so residents who choose to make their homes with Me and Lucy. ( No fancy real estate name, just a nice places to live )

anyhoo my 2 cents

Thank you Sara - you are the first who backs up her words with facts. Still, my problem is not with the kind of service you providing - you can surely find those I visited. (and I'll make sure to find your property ingame, before i start another needlessly.)

Private islands are basically 'insurance'.

Sure, you might not like one of your neighbours, or have the usual relatively minor issues.

But you won't spend 800 USD on a bit of mainland only to find yourself facing a 300m high wall plastered with pictures of rotting meat three weeks later.




Truth to tell, I agree with the original post - land prices are just nuts. I think the 1675 USD + 295 USD/mo price of islands these days is on the verge of insane.

Yet I've got such demand that when there are 4 sims worth of people banging on the door to get in, well, okay, I cautiously get more regions.

Cain you haven't been in SL long enough to see that alot of the sim owners charging tier are working very hard to earn that. The initial investment of buying the sim/island is the first step which many are not wiiling or able to take. Then there are advertising costs, building costs, planning, developing, conflict management...the list goes on and on. The sim owners build value and charge their tenants accordinally. Maybe you should buy a sim and see for yourself. Let us all know how that goes for you.

Good luck

Most people in Second Life are in world to make a profit of some sort. If you buy anything or rent land from someone, you are aiding that. What is your problem anyway with helping others turn a profit? If everyone were like you, there would be no businesses or land for sell/rent in Second Life because it wouldn't make any sense to do so.

All island owners have a HUGE initial investment. Then, consider the ammount of work and effort that goes into making those islands look nice and such. This also takes money for some because they simply can't do it themselves. When I looked into hiring an island builder and scripter, it was going to cost me a TON, well over $200 just to build and be scripted so that it was a place people would WANT to come to. Then add on the $199 or $299 a month you pay, depending on when you bought your island, and that's ALOT of money you are putting out. Add to that advertising costs (this isn't cheap if you want a high placement on your ads) in classifieds...you're looking at enough money to have bought a ton of playstation games XD. Also consider the crap and drama land owners have to go through to keep their land rentals running smoothly and to keep their renters all happy...it's enough to drive some out of Second Life alltogether. It really is a full time job.

I personally don't charge tier, but I charge rent. When i first opened, I had cheap rent, especially considering it was on a no lag island. My residential spaces have remained full the entire time, but I am losing more money than I am bringing in on that. It doesn't seem fair for anyone to lose money just to keep others happy. I am not a rich person, and I know there are other island owners in the same boat I am in. I bought the island thinking I could rent out enough space to pay the island tier and my store sales would be purely profit. Because I tried to keep all my renters happy, this couldn't happen in that way. As far as I'm concerned, island owners have every right to charge what they want to turn a profit. If people don't like it, they won't rent there. Most islands I go to seem to be full of renters with no space available, so I guess other residents don't mind paying the prices island owners are charging. It wouldn't make sense to do it and not turn any sort of profit...seriously.

If you really think that you can offer SL better by buying your own island and renting things out cheap, go ahead, but I think you will soon find out the way I did that you have to charge enough to at least pay your tier or it just doesn't make much sense to do.

You forgot to mention that private islands are a lot prettier and less laggy than mainland too. If I don't tp away from the palms, white sand and gentle waves of the estate I'm renting, I'll never have to look at another rotating ad again.

Its called a market economy that is driven by supply and demand.

You don't want to pay someones tier? Fine, don't. No one is making you buy or rent land. If land is so overpriced, then no one would by and prices would drop, and well they haven't in 3 months, so that has got to tell you something there.

The only way I see land pricves going back to 5-6/m2 is if LL somehow manages to drop a massive amount of mainland sims into the mix, in the order of close to a thousand, in a time period of a month or less.

I think you are absolutely right, but only a small part of the story!

I'll try to save my vitriolic sarcasm and ridicule at the widespread lack of ANY real and sound land management business ethics/organization for another post.

There is at least one other very important element to this...the current "business" practice of New-Resident Exploitation being practiced in the hands of robber-barons/land-sharks, who are charging exhorbitant land rates that have no relationship whatsoever to any sane economic theory of supply and demand. No, not the economy, and not slow sim release by LL, they soley intend to take advantage of the new folks other businesses desparately NEED not to just become landed, but to STAY HAPPY, and to stay in SL long enough to make it to the stores.

Question: How many of those 5+ million accounts are logged-in-looked-around-found-the-prospects-of-staying-ridiculous-and-left folks???
Answer: Far more than anyone would like to admit! I have friends with 6-figure incomes, who are avid RP-ers...they took one look and bolted after they saw the absurd and dismal future prospects for SL as portrayed by the unmitigated and intellectually insulting BS being laid out by the barons. You DON'T have to be RL-rich to participate in SL , but it sure as H$## looks that way when you look at land prices and the Linden-to-dollar conversion, yes?

Question: When Bill Landshark and Bob TakeItAll have driven off all the prospective new long-term residents that represent stable economy and society, and this forces otherwise viable SL service- and product-based business to tumble, who will they sell to then?
Answer: Bill will sell his land to Bob, and Bob will sell his to Bill...why? Because this will be the ONLY way they have left to "fool" the unsuspecting into believing that land should truly trade hands at the prices they are asking...

Don't believe me? Go look at how the new land that clears to sale in the Azure Islands gets elevated from the the original sale price coming out of auction to more than $L10 per sqm, all without ever having been occupied, and all under the unsightly banners of three or four land barons (BTW, kudoes to Azure for working tirelessly to take this situation in hand!)...All of whom, by the way, for all their months scooping and hawking Azure land (until the newly-imposed release-auction system), never ONCE bought lots in the same region, and were never once in direct competition with each other...how does THAT happen...nah, couldn't be...do you think? (-: And how DOES land go from Realtor X to I-Am-NOT-a-Realtor Y to Realtor Z, all of whom presumably seek to profit, without the lot ever going up in land sale price, around and around, until finally some poor unsuspecting person with an account less than two months old comes along and buys it???

I would venture to guess that a lot more people leave because of performance issues rather than the fact that land brokers are doing what they've been doing since SL began. If someone is so disgusted at the prospect of paying US$21 for a plot of land, they can happily fly around to their heart's content without paying a dime to anyone. Land ownership is not a requirement for this RP universe. No one can be exploited here if they don't want to be.

And it may seem insane, but it's still supply and demand. If there is no demand at these prices, they will drop.