Tech Question to those who know

I was wonder here if anyone knows about updating things like bios. I don't know where else to ask and the bios errors are sometimes interferring with computer and SL play.
Is it common practice to have to pay for updates for bios?

If you don't know how to do it, don't do.
One little mistake and your computer won't run anymore, even not boot.

Go to a computer store and ask if they want to do it for you. The upgrade itself is free but they don't work for free So you have to pay a little for it.

I was told by through the manfactor company site that basically directed me to this bios update services they told me it cost 50 dollars it would be as simple as following instructions and downloading info on cd.
Just was wonder what others thought.
I wasn't sure if it was scam or even where to look for the upgrade on the web.
The manfactor site sent me to this other site for updates. Their customer service guy told me its 50 dollars and easy to do.
If its matter of 50 and following instuctions I can do it. If I took in shop it could cost me 3x times more and be week without a computer.
I am getting bios error messages off and on and the error report says I need to update my bios.
What can possible go wrong if I pay for update, try to install it myself with instructions?
I just wonder if its scam to being being charged for update or not and if there are free updates that relate to bios where are they hiding if its not through the manfactor site.

I'm with Zoha on this.

The BIOS is the one thing that a beginner should never mess with. If you make a mistake then the computer is seriously damaged.

Break a disk, buy a new disk, break the RAM, buy new RAM, break the BIOS and buy a new computer (almost. I know the techie's will say it's only the motherboard).

Seriously consider getting someone who really knows what they are doing and that doesn't mean you mate from the pub.

Thanks for responding.
I am wondering how long I can ignore the occasional bios error you need update messages? Does anyone know what I am talking about.
I am just wondering for amount it would take to get it repaired perhaps I just wait and save up for newer system. LOL
I don't want to break anything. I am not skilled in this area yet I have read few things.
Breaking a motherboard often to replace it can be almost as expensive as the computer from last time I checked. LOL

Usually you should never need to pay to update your BIOS. The manufacturer of your motherboard will (almost) always offer free bios updates.

I've done this a number of times on the computers around our house, and it never fails to make me a tad nervous, so as said, this is not something to do if everything is running fine. A botched bios upgrade is one of the very few things you can do that will absolutely kill a computer dead. (Ok, just the motherboard, but who really likes to replace those?)

On the other hand, very often it can really fix serious issues if things are NOT running fine. Also these days many motherboard makers have fairly simple utilities that do this automatically from within windows, so the old days of Dos-and-a-floppy and hitting the right keyboard keys, are mostly over. If I did not still have some deep lingering trauma from some older attempts years ago, I would even call it a simple/easy step. On one older ECS Socket A board around our house, updating to a free third-party bios ended up being the only way to enable SSE instructions on an Athlon XP 2400+, because the original boardmaker did not enable SSE by default and apparently never offered a bios that did. On this computer, it made the entire difference between being able to run newer games like Oblivion, or not running them at all. I've had other systems where a BIOS update completely fixed other serious issues -- but it is not something to try as blithely as updating video drivers.

I've never seen this BIOS error message you mention, can you get for us the exact wording?

Personally, charging $50 for updating the bios smells of a scam for me, especially if they like to send you little messages suggesting you need a new one periodically.

You can usually get the specific motherboard model using something like Everest from majorgeeks.com, and go directly to the motherboard manufacturer for a free update if needed. It sounds a bit fishy to me, like the company that sold yours is working to milk some constant future revenue out of their customers, by directing customers to pay for a bios update every few months.

I am not exactly even sure how to get the error message record its happen like twice this week.
I got one blue screen.
Then when I logged into SL last week I crashed I got this error reporting message pop up then windows sent me this site saying my bios was out of date.
I looked up with my rl partners help the computer information.
I have to relook it up but the information directed me to Phoenix went to that site tried to find information and because the system is 2 years or more old I was directed to 3rd party site.
I got several messages with similar blue screens about year ago saying I need to restart, that there was something go wrong with bios, if this continued I needed to remove my antivirus program, with list of few other things, with series of numbers that I don't remember. First time I googled up the numbers it said it was because the bios was out of date.
Nothing really major has happen but sometimes I do notice freeze ups. Few months ago I had major freeze up it literally wouldn't let me get past desktop. Realized there was something wrong with one of antivirus utility and some how was able to remove it and set computer back at different time point before the problem occured and everythings been fine since until the current issue.
It just seemed bit strange. You would think there would be free updates or some type of information out there about it. The customer service/tech guy was saying how easy it was for 49.95 I get all the information I needed to do regardless if I never done it before.

I would download Everest Free Edition from majorgeeks here:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181

Under either Computer/Summary or under Motherboard/Motherboard there should be a direct link to the motherboard site and hopefully, a link there for a no-cost bios upgrade. At the very least, they should give a model number and manufacturer for the board.

If you can use Everest to get your specific motherboard model, and can give us the specific model, we might be able to help direct you to the specific link you need for a free update.

Phoenix makes bioses but not motherboards, so I think you'll be better off tracking down the motherboard maker (assuming they are a reputable company) as they almost always have free bios updates for their specific board.

The $49.95 sounds like a ripoff where they simply give you the same instructions that a motherboard maker would give for free.

yeah I phoenix was the company that supplied the last bios update in 2005 that has been occasionally malfunctioning since I got it in 2005. I will check it out thanks Brash.

Here is information I found, please forgive me if I copied the wrong info
Motherboard:
CPU Type Intel Celeron D 325, 2533 MHz (19 x 133)
Motherboard Name Foxconn 661M03-G (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN, IEEE-1394)
Motherboard Chipset SiS 661FX
System Memory 768 MB (DDR SDRAM)
BIOS Type Award (03/12/05)
Motherboard Properties:
Motherboard ID 03/12/2005-SiS-661-6A7I4FK9C-00
Motherboard Name Foxconn 661M03-G (3 PCI, 1 AGP, 2 DDR DIMM, Audio, Video, LAN, IEEE-1394)

Chipset Properties:
Motherboard Chipset SiS 661FX
Memory Timings 2.5-3-3-7 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
BIOS Properties:
System BIOS Date 03/12/05
Video BIOS Date 06/24/05
Award BIOS Type Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message snc302eeh - 661MXPro BIOS v1.0 (031205)
DMI BIOS Version 6.00 PG
I found this at the very bottom, but I wonder if there is update site that will explain how to do this correctly.
I am not saying I am but I really can't put out couple hundred right now for repairs.
Motherboard Manufacturer:
Company Name Foxconn Electronics, Inc.
Product Information http://www.foxconnchannel.com/productsOverview_motherboard.cfm?pSocket=&pChipset=
BIOS Download http://www.foxconnchannel.com/productsDownloadOverview_motherboard.cfm
I went to bios download site got error message then was sent to www.foxconnchannel.com and my concern it may not be listed if it is there.
These sites tend to only have the newest product update listed

That's an older Socket 478 motherboard, Foxconn does offers a no-cost bios for the board but it is dated December 2004: http://www.foxconnchannel.com/EN-US/service/downloads.aspx?Model=661M03-G-6L&DownID=en-gb0000002

There's a chance it might actually be better for your board than the third-party 2005 one, but it is hard to say whether it will work better or be worth the risk of trying. In this case, Foxconn doesn't seem to offer the easier bios utilities usually available on newer boards, and only a BIN download, so you are stuck with the nail-biting dos-and-a-floppy routine, hmm. It also is possible that older one doesn't support your newer Celeron so need to proceed cautiously.

Let me poke around a bit more as there are some third-party sites that are reputable and offer free BIOS for various boards, it might take a little googling to discover if there are some newer options that are highly reputable and no cost...

It is very rare that you need to update the BIOS, unless you have been sold a MB that can now cope with an updated feature. The BIGGEST problem with updating a BIOS, is a power outage during the process, as only part of the BIOS will have been updated. It is one of the things that you cannot correct by resetting the BIOS to its defaults.
BIOS chips used to be in chip holders, now they are welded to the MB. My advice, unless it is absolutley required, don't do it. I'm a tinkerer, in that I update everything on my systems, perhaps if you can post the errors you are getting, we may be able to help with a workround.

Yes I agree not to update BIOS unless needed, sounds like it might be needed in this case.

I did some more poking around and found this link on Foxconn's sire for your specific board:

http://www.foxconnchannel.com/support/downloads_detail.aspx?ID=en-us0001190

It has the same Dec 2004 BIN file, but also now includes a BIOS flash utility that might make things easier. Here also is Foxconn's page on how to use the files, it mentions FAT32 so if you are using NTFS I am not sure you can use this utility:

http://www.foxconnchannel.com/support/faq_detail.aspx?ID=en-us0000066

Do you have a second computer around the house that you can use as well? I always like to have another system I can log into to get to the internet for research if something goes bonkers on the one I am repairing...

Is there way to find old error message record ? because I didn't write it down the last few times because I just was way too tired. I have no clue when this problem is going to occur it seems to go through periods were it will do it 2 or 3 times or more in month then nothing for months.
I am not going to tinker with anything until I have clue whether or not I can do it or not because I know sometimes in past I know enough to totally screw up system and not know how to fix it.
I sort of thought this was weird too. I never ever had a bios issue until I got this system.
I check out the link and see what is there.
I have been trying to find information about this bios issue for bit but most of the beginner sites are all geared towards computers systems back in 2002 to 2000.
I know XP does things differently. I don't even have floppy disk with this system just cd r/w
I don't have second computer, the closest thing I have is 6gb hard drives for 368,486,etc. LOL
Somewhere I may have remanents of what remains of my commodore 64 before it died.
Last update I have is in 6/23/2005 not sure if update in 2004 would be good idea.
I am not sure about though I think XP systems tend to be automatically on one setting when sold. The NTFS sounds familar though. Not sure where. LOL
bottom of report it says this wonder if its just sending me automatic errors because of its age? If I go to the esupport.com site thats where they are found this "service" that is trying to sell be me bios update.
-------[ BIOS ]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BIOS Properties:
BIOS Type Award
Award BIOS Type Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message snc302eeh - 661MXPro BIOS v1.0 (031205)
System BIOS Date 03/12/05
Video BIOS Date 06/24/05

BIOS Manufacturer:
Company Name Phoenix Technologies Ltd.
Product Information http://www.phoenix.com/en/products/default.htm
BIOS Upgrades http://www.esupport.com/biosagent/index.cfm?refererid=40

Problems & Suggestions:
Suggestion Are you looking for a BIOS Upgrade? Contact eSupport Today!
Suggestion System BIOS is more than 2 years old. Update it if necessary.
Suggestion Video BIOS is more than 2 years old. Update it if necessary.

Yah, having a 2005 bios is not per se a problem. It *IS* a little interesting though that you are getting these messages right around on the 2 Year anniversary date of your current BIOS, which happens to be their "suggested" date to come buy a new one from them. Their site states that "85% of computers have an out-of-date BIOS." What they don't say however is that this is not necessarily a problem for the overwhelming majority. In some cases, a newer bios even introduces NEW problems that did not exist before.

If it were me, and this really only happens twice a month at very most, I think I would not sweat it much, and leave things as they are. A brief issue that pops up twice a month then mysteriously vanishes again for months, is relatively mild for a Windows based system ^_^ and suggests there isn't too much of a critical/fatal issue (or you'd be getting it much more often).

My guess is that even if you shelled out $49.95 for an "updated" BIOS (which might not even be any newer than the one you have now), you'd still periodically get some issue, maybe just a different issue. Better the devil you know ...

esupport.com is a website that exists for one reason only -- to make money off people. All businesses do of course, but this one seems to target especially people who know nothing about computers, and it sounds like with your research so far, they have little to offer you. I would avoid them, personally.

Strange thing I got the message when it was new too like few months old for about few times then nothing for year then just reccently.
It just seems really odd.
Thanks for your advise Brash and everyone I didn't know exactly if this is really major problem or if there was something questionable about the whole you can update your bios easily just pay us 49.95 usd type thing.

If you update it, and the cat knocks out the power cord in mid-flash. . .

www.badflash.com

Well, at two years old, your BIOS may well be out of date.

But the "error message" itself sounds like a piece of malware/spamware. I think maybe something has got into your computer that's really an ad, but pretends to be an error message.

Before you worry too much about flashing your BIOS to a newer version, run a couple of spyware checkers. My resident Computer Geek likes Ad-Aware and Spyware Doctor. You have to run at least two, because no single spyware utility can find everything that's out there.

Once you stop the annoying and scary error messages, you can sit back, do the research on your motherboard, and determine if you really need to update your BIOS.

i have bios as old as 2001 and its not out of date.
unless youve added some bleeding edge hardware or are an overclocking enthusiast id give the possible bios borking a miss.

I agree with Lindal. The thing is you mentioned a BSOD and a popup window (while running windows) about BIOS being out of date. Write down the Stop error on the BSOD, then research that. There's the first trouble. Secondly, a popup in windows telling you that the BIOS is out of date screams advertisement.

I don't think you need to update the BIOS in this situation but if you do someone has graciously helped you out w/ some research. I deal with networks more complicated than just a plain BIOS upgrade but that is the one thing I will put off unless I really really need the update.

YMMV of course.

I'm paranoid enough to add (I have no technical knowledge when it comes to computers) that if this error starts 'cropping up' more now that the two year mark has passed, I'd more than suspect adware.

I've had my comp two years and most of it's problems have been XP hating me.

This is a scam. There are no pop-ups inside windows which report on your BIOS: you are being shilled by a standard web pop-up dialog. Use Trend Micro Housecall (housecall.trendmicro.com) to thoroughly scan your system for mal-ware, spyware & trojans: it's much more likely those are causing the problem than the machine's BIOS!

There maybe 2 other possibilities you may wish to consider... check the date and time in your BIOS setup page, if your MB battery is drainned, not using your PC for a while per month, can reset the BIOS date. I had this once with website certificates being reported as out of date, same with the network. Some MB's allow you to change the battery, some don't.

2nd, I noticed your Video BIOS Date 06/24/05.. you said a couple of months... it maybe (long shot) that your GC drivers are using the int13 to pole the BIOS for a date (I said it was a long shot), again if this date error is the primary cause, and you can check the BIOS date as being incorrect and set to its default date, that MAY cause periodic errors.

I'm with others here. I've never seen any system that would pop up a dialog box telling you that your BIOS is out of date. Also, many computers run perfectly well with out-of-date BIOSes simply because of the work and danger inherent in replacing them. Unless you are absolutely positive that there is a BIOS update that can fix the problem you're having (the manufacturer's web site should describe what each of their available updates does), don't do it. (The most common BIOS update is to "update CPU IDs" or something like that, which just means to make the motherboard work with the newer processors that have come out since the last update. Obviously if you don't have one of these processors you do not need the update..)

If you _must_ do it, by far the safest way is to boot your machine right down to DOS or an early version of Windows that can still boot from a floppy, so that you can run the updater utility in a single-tasking environment where it can't be interrupted by anything. (And sadly I really don't know how to get one of those boot disks if you don't already have one, other than having a friend who can lend you one, or having a really old PC handy.) In an ideal world your hard disk wouldn't even be mounted at the time..

some manufacturers will give you BIOS flashing software for Windows now but I get nervous shivers at the thought of running something like that

* Partly because booting a hard disk beyond a certain size under an old version of Windows can, apparantly, corrupt it. Yes, that is the kind of devil you are dancing with on BIOS updates...

OMG, don't change anything if you don't know. i once deleted my fdisk.

let's just say, after much effort and a lot of money spent on retrievers, i ended up buying a new computer. i thot i was SO smart.... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

there are newsgroups and helpline type websites that can help you tho. get a live chat or thread with someone who knows this stuff. or get a VISTA. no bios.